The next World Cup and football violence

Jimbo, Its all about vote's for Mr Blatter,sure if there is any trouble's in S.A Blatter's spin ( slaves ) will deflect it elsewhere !

Unfortunately the younger generations have been brought up on too much win at all costs, and sportsmanship has been thrown out the window.. I can remember a time back in the late fifties growing up playing football our schoolmasters were instructing the lads with an ideology of fair play and sportsmanship. It was a time when it was not important to win, but how you played the game. In the late sixties sport started to change, when big money started to poor into sport. Clubs started to demand results and the pressure started to flow down through the clubs to the supporters; who in turn were fueled by the press as losers, if they did not have a successful season. Add alcohol to that, and you have the perfect recipe for football violence. What is needed now is leadership to bring back sportsmanship and the fair play concept. It has been interesting to see that Sepp Blatter FIFA president and Michel Platini UEFA president are now leading the way with a lot of initiatives. It will be a long haul back, but it's a start and we should all get behind it and support it.. But it has to start at home with the Mums and Dads first of all as proper role models on the touch lines in junior matches.. It is also interesting to see some associations have started to fine parents who shout abuse to the kids from the touch lines and that is a tremendous initiative.. PS cheers Midfielder.. but you can't be serious about CCM smacking SFC asses.?. ;) ~~~~~~ KB

Photon Well said mate

I've lived in South Africa for 25. I've seen this country host successful Rugby and Cricket World Cups, a African Nations Cup, as well as numerous other International Events without to much trouble. Prior to every one of these events I've had to endure numerous Western Media Conglommerates telling us how we're going to make a mess of the whole thing. I can assure that South Africa will host the 2010 World Cup, and that the tournament will be a great success (Look when I speak of success, I mean off the field, caus goodness knows that if Bafana manage to score one goal it'll be a major accomplishment :) ) . I can also assure that when this country goes on to bid to host the Olympic Games the self same Media groups will be out in force saying that the IOC would be crazy to back us and it's gonna be a mess, but yet again this country and its people will be out in force to prove them wrong. Finally I just wanted to say, that every country has no go areas for tourists, they don't take you to the Bronx when you tour New York and Sydney as well as Melbourne have their fair share of shady abodes. Our country has its problems but we like every other country in the world, we will put our best foot forward when it comes to welcoming the world to our lovely country!!

The thought of playing the next football world cup in SA and the issue of violence works on a few interesting levels for me. Firstly a game that has got a reputation for violence is going to a country that has the worst violence in the world. How will the game football and the threat of violence both on and off the sporting field be seen and reported by the press to the rest of the world? What are the causes and effects and will football intensify the social violence or subdue it? Are football crowd disturbances and social violence the same? Will the authorities be able to tell the difference and will they treat them differently? Will the violent forces on both sides of football and society cancel each other out. The violent South Africans handing out their own form of punishment to the football fans out to cause trouble? Will the many parties that want to see a non-violent sporting event - FIFA, SA, football fans - clamp down so hard on the violence that it will be a non issue and even help SA reduce its own social violence? Interesting to see what happens and not just in the context of what happens in SA, but also the implications for the rest of the sporting world.

I fail to see the connection between South Africa and the 2010 World Cup potential for violence. South Africa is a very dangerous country in certain regions in the first place, more at risk are perhaps the fans. Soccer has earnt its reputation over the years with regard to fan violence and its a stigma that is hard to shake. One of the core problems are the 'ultra' groups that tend to attach themselves to soccer clubs. They are a small minority of fans but they are organised and somewhat militant. Melbourne Victory and Sydney Fc both have elements that have to be separated before and after games. Sydney Fc fans marched down the streets of Melbourne as a sort of invading army, breaking windows,etc. So yes the A league has thrown off the shackles of ethnic represensation for the far more preferable geographical representation, but young blokes no doubt attempting imitate some overseas fans form these groups. Fans should not have to be segregated it rarely happens in other football codes. However, just becuase the soccer WC will be held in South Africa is no reason that the WC itself will create any more trouble than already exists in that country or would occur in any World Cup. What is commendable is the Socceroo fans in general don't behave in this way. We must have some of the best fans in the world, at least if there is trouble it wont be the fans in green and gold. Redb

True Tah, I was not saying there is a link between soccer and crime in South Africa. I was saying that other factors lead to violence such as nationalism or tribalism. I also was saying, that if there is any violence at world cup time it should be easy to tell if is regular crime or mob based violence connected to the world cup. The distinction should be easy enough to make, so if there is world cup related nationalistic (the main cause) based violence, then there will be no excuse. (Such behaviour does not happen at the Olympics- I wonder why that is!!)

Midfielder, just let the dickheads and the SA bad types mix SA Police dont need to do anything (not that they do much anyway!)

Your topic is interesting ........ many are asking the same question ........ my guess is there will be no go areas ........ The interesting thing to me will be in France 98 & Germany 2006 police in their thousand kept apart the dickheads who simply wanted to fight and used their countries flag for it. If the SA police are busy keeping the streets of SA free from SA bad types who will keep the Europeans apart !!!!

PommyAussie and Paul, there is no link between soccer and crime in South Africa - gosh in Cape Town, the Muslims and Christians had to have separate leagues for their rugby comps, because of the violence. Personally I think racism in soccer is a much bigger problem in Spain and Italy more so than the UK, I guess UK had the benefit of having a large non-white population internally (the large number of Indians, Afro-Caribbeans) same as France. Spain and Italy, by virtual of their lack of a colonial empire in Africa or Asia, have minimal non-white populations, therefore I wouldn't expect too many Italians or Spanish would personally know too many Africans, Asians, etc. I would love to see if these xenophobic soccer fans will try this in South Africa, where such behaviour is likely to result in a bullet to the head or a machete or panga to the throat.

I know I have been guilty of inciting soccer fans at times. But I will go on record now and agree that the game in and of itself is not the cause of violence. Blind nationalism is a big cause of violence, also blind club tribalism. But the super popularity of the game can end up being a focal point for congregation of rampant nationalists or violent tribalists. My main problem with soccer is simply that it has become so much more popular than all other sports in Europe. If other sports were closer in popularity then there may not be the same focal flash points for violence to occur. As far as South Africa is concerned, there is definitely a huge problem with crime and violence. I was in Johannesburg in 1996, during Mandela's presidency. But even then Johannesburg had the highest murder rate in the world. White people stayed in certain parts of the city and would not go to places like Soweto unless they were in very tight with a local. All white people had strong security systems, barbed wire on their fences etc. But the kind of violence that occurs in crime in South Africa is very different from mob and hooligan based violence. I think it should be easy enough to tell the difference between the two. As far as Sepp Blatter is concerned, who is he trying to kid? No previous host of the world cup has had problems comparable to South Africa's. He seems to expect that we should believe everything he says. Jimbo, Perhaps it is soccer that causes violence, but not football- in reference to the difference between the NSL and FFA. (Tongue in cheek comment; the game was not called football at all in the NSL days. Is this your form of revisionist history? Of course I will go on calling it soccer, as it is not the dominant code anywhere in Australia.)

Hi True Tah I don't think hooliganism in England is becoming extinct, it is just managed a lot better. I'm English and have never really seen any trouble at a game in the modern era, policing, segregation and modern seated stadia help although these ruin the atmosphere somewhat. The English do cause trouble a fair bit when they are overseas, i'm extremely ashamed when i see this occuring, iggnoarance is the major factor in my opinion and the culture that it is funny or ok to behave like a xenophobic idiot. Just look at the Barmy Army, pretty amiable on the whole, like a drink and most love football too but aggression is not accepted within this group and people stick to it (on the whole i think). I get frustrated when i hear Australians (i live here nowadays) talking that English football is constant running riots when it is not, efforts to stamp out racism and bring families into the game and not accpeting anti-social behaviour have knocked it on the head. However Firms still exist and although they say they represent a club have very little interest in the game, it is extremely well organised organised crime, these blokes would happily beat each other up rather than attend a match. I do get frustrated when i whatch the Italians, Germans or Dutch going at each other which (especially in Italy) seems quite often and nobody mentions it, i guess that is what you get when you have a terrible history of football violence like the English though. Lets hope that in SA 2010 there won't be any violence, what a shame i have to say that though.

Jimbo, I can't comment on the cricket world cup, but there was far more stability in South Africa (well relative to today). Mandela was in power, and I guess he carried a bit more respect throughout the country than Mbeki. From what I could understand, it was still safe to walk the streets. There are a lot of issues with crime in South Africa. Having said that, I don't believe that many tourists for the 2010 Soccer World Cup will be victims, if you follow the right precautions. From what I can recall, there was no violence at the 2002 world cup in Korea/Japan either. It generally seems to be a European thing. I can only really comment on England. Believe it or not, the situation is improving over there. As a kid, I went to a first division game between Blackburn and Cambridge at ewood park, and there were quite a lot of fights, and segregation, and it seemed that quite a number of the people weren't interested in the soccer, it was a just an excuse for a gathering. I personally wasn't interested in the game, I went with my uncle who had free tickets. These days, given the price for EPL tickets, I think that really it is not really a game for "working class spectators" (overalll debatable whether or not the working class is that dominant in the UK) anymore (although there is still the Championship below and I am not qualified to comment on crowd behaviour there). Maybe the soccer hooligans are becoming extinct?

The statistics coming out of South Africa are chilling in terms of crime and violence. South Africa has successfully staged a Cricket and a Rubgy World Cup before and no mention that I can recall of violence or bad crowd behaviour. I'm hopefull of a successful FIFA World Cup in South Africa, but I fear the attraction of the combination of the words "Soccer", "Hooligan" and "Violence" are sure to appear in the press somewhere before, during and after the football world cup. Especially if the owners of that meadia have commercial interests in other sports.

The issue of football and violence is not new. There were riots at Rangers - Celtic games in the early 1900s. Is the sport to blame? Some obviously think so and the problems in Britain and Europe had their nadir in the 1970s-80s culminating in Heysel and Hillsborough disasters. I argue that the violence is not caused by football but rather a reflection of the society in which the sport is being played. In SA the violence appears mainly driven through racial and economic issues. The priviledged few still rule the roost over the poverty striken majority. In Europe Football, being by far the most popular sport, is used as a tool to achieve the perpetrators desired outcome may that be politically, racially or socially motivated. In many cases the violence is premeditated and not as a result of anything specific that happened on the field. However there are instances of crowd misbehaviour at football games which is a direct result of incidents in the game eg disallowed goal etc. These type of incidents are not uncommon to other sporting events such as Cricket on the sub continent. To blame football for the violence that occurs at tournaments and matches is simplistic and incorrect but no doubt that wont stop critics doing their best to put the game down as it is seen as a weakness to be highlighted to potential audiences. The double standards and hypocrisy shown by sections of the Melbourne (and no doubt Australian) media on this matter is laughable but that doesnt suprise me anymore ie Cricket one day crowds where hundreds are turfed out and arrested but no one questions the validity of that sport. If a minor episode occurs at a football game the whole sport is questioned.