True grit from the Wallabies

Having read so many interviews with Woodward, O'Sullivan, Ruddock I still don't buy it. A ceo say's we need to do this, people do it. He doesn't do it personally. Anyhow, IMO is the key here. Just have to agree to disagree.

Justin, i went back and examined the try on the replay. it was a master class in constructive, whole team rugby over several phases. this is how it went: Penalty to aust on their own 10 metre line. giteau finds touch just outside the attacking 22 line. lineout forms. Burgess goes to front of lineout and stands in lineout for a few seconds and then returns to half position. moore throws in. no wallaby jumps. Smith peels off and takes the ball unopposed. and in space. Comes to first defender, drwas and passes to Hynes inside and steaming thro. he is tackled 10 metres out, all Boks are now offside. very quick ruck ball from Burgess. Quick hands by Elsom and Sharpe to Giteau and then to A Cooper, each commiting remaining defenders. A Cooper draws final defender and Tuqiri goes straight, low and hard for the line. Bingo. Everyone in the team, except Barnes and Mortlock had a part to play. they all did their jobs.

I am speculating here. Deans unlike managers Jones and Connolly is very hands on. The devil is in the detail. He gets involved in the nitty gritty. He stays back for extra kicking practice and gathers the ball for the kicker. As head coach who is hands on I imagine he would spend personal detailed time on the areas that need most attention. For the Wallabies currently one of those areas is/was the breakdown, intensity and contesting it. After all we lost th Q/F against England because of this. It had been noted how intense AB/Boks were in this area, and we would have to pay attention to this area. As the head coach hen I surmise he HAD to give it detailed attention and not just a friendly overview chat with Williams saying we had to be more intense. At the minimum he would of at least understood the detail of what Williams was doing by being there and watching. The ruck is far more than technique. There is also the positioning and anticipation of what next of where a player should go next, or position himself for. Deans was involved IMO.

Justin, due to professionalism every coach has to shout and roar to get his allocated period, thus I assume the most Deans does with regard to the breakdown is to give an overall opinion. The point I was making was that I doubt that specific coaches involve themselves with other coaches work, perhaps in a general meeting, but I imagine the brekadown is handled solely by the forwards coaches.

All I can say is thank God we dont have to put up with seeing Gits at halfback again - he throws more bounce passes than Burgess does! Benjamin - I would actually hope that the head coach gets up his assistant if they are getting it wrong. Its his ass on the line and if things are not being done to his satisfaction or what he considers to be the correct way then he should be told. Its one of the reasons joint coaching never works. There has to be a head coach, but thats another debate altogether. Lefty - Yep Morts was from strong scrum but it was brute strength rather than skill or guile. Fair play on LTs. I guess I am referring more to the type we scored against SA in Brisbane when we smashed them and there was a brilliant move involving Larkham to Gits who threw a quick inside ball right on top of the defence and LT went through a gaping hole. It was beautiful to watch.

Sam, exactly, professionalism has created a uniform breakdown which makes things infinitely harder for coaches, therefore I think it is even more likely that specialist coaches have the final say. Justin, I've been waiting for that question. Actually I trained at Wasps A academy for 2 years, so yes I have played the game. You look at how many specialist coaches there are now and have a consider how things have changed since 1995. You think Wayne Smith has a pop at Hansen for getting it wrong? No I said pre-tournament odds were irrelevant, once the Wallabies kicked off their odds improved massively which illustrates that they were playing well. Not that hard to understand is it? Improvements, yes you're right, but I the acid test is saturday and in the autumn. I'm glad that you're not espousing the greatness of Deans theory already. The man needs time. Spinner, regarding the World Cup odds please read above. I don't think Connolly was a genius but it isn't his fault the powderpuff girls got pushed over. Rugby league? I miss out on much? That's ironic because the last few games have actually resembled rugby league. If I had said I had enjoyed a Nh game because of the tackling, ferocity and scrummaging then I would be bombarded with all sorts of outdated cliches. Smiley, no, you made the presumption that I was from NZ to which I copied and pasted a response, other than that..? As I recall Jones gave debuts to Waugh, Giteau, Johansson, Polatau-Nau etc... Furthermore it is simply facile to suggest who Jones would not have picked, likewise Connolly - who threw Barnes in at the deep end, and attempted to play Giteau at 9 btw. Not that conservative...

Benjamin I was saying your response was muddled as it contained snippets from my post - read your last two-line paragraph again, you're using my words but it makes no sense, it's almost like you copied and pasted it accidentally. Deans has marshalled that ability into a better structure and added players who Connolly/Jones would never have picked if they were still in the job (Hynes, Burgess, Cross). The ability hasn't changed but it appears they are playing with more self-belief in themselves and their teamates.

Benjamin, the wallabies were never considered favourites for the tournament. Yes, more likely to beat England, but that was saying nothing at that time. Connolly was the coach and they were outplayed, completely outplayed by a team that was (man for man) inferior but who had better tactics and wanted it more. That is unforgivable for a national team coach and frankly, a national team. Justin, as for tries from set pieces: Mortlocks try and the tuqiri try from last week. MOrtlock from a 5 metre scrum. Tuqiri from a lineout, albeit through a maul also. I thought it was a complete move, chosen from the moment Giteau's line kick put them 23 metres from the try line. As for the remainder of your post, I agree. Youth, Dingo and an improving pack at set piece, breakdown and in broken play. Benjamin, you are so hard to please. You miss out on so much. Maybe you should go and get a dose of Rugby league.

Have you ever played the game Benjamin? Fair dinkum your argument is fanciful. Believe me the ruck was a very important part of the game in 95 and always has been. Our rep training consisted of constant rucking until we got it right and guess what? There were backs coaching it as well as forwards. Shock horror. Do you really think the game has changed that much? Take a close look, scrums, lineouts and rucks were still there then, its just a lot faster now but no less important. Improvements - scrum has improved particularly last week. Yes I know you will say SA arent much chop but we havent had a platform like for Mortlocks try against a 3N side for a while. The ruck has improved vastly in the last few weeks. As I have stated the backs havent gone on from last year due to personel but they will improve as the combinations get more familiar. Now you brought up the favourites bit champ, all I did was set you straight and now you tell me its irrelevant? Your'e a classic, you make me laugh. Utterly!!!

Benjamin I agree that the game has changed markedly since 1995 - my point was that a coaches playing career doesn't necessarily enhance or diminish their credentials in coaching specific aspects of the game. Wayne Smith played with Robbie Deans in the All Blacks as first five and is responsible for the NZ backline but we both agree that he is still struggling with coaching an attacking system to beat the Boks umbrella rush defence. I also don't believe that the contest at the breakdown has changed that drastically since 1995, the players size and physiques have obviously changed and with that the collisions are much more dynamic and powerful - but it's still a mess to coach, play and police.

Goodness, if only somebody had said that earlier.

Left arm - with due respect to the French, I cant too excited about what the backs did against them. It will take time for this backline to come together but they have lost a genius in Larkham who could unlock defences with his running or brilliant passing game. Gits does not have the ability yet to bring other players into the game like Larkham did but he has the potential. When Burgess gets his pass right (and he will) then things will get better immediately. Have we seen a decent set move from the Wallabies this year from set-piece? I cant recall one. Tough? yep, Fair? Maybe, maybe not but I have faith in the talent out there to come good. With the youth we have all I want to see over the next few years is the scrum steadily improve to a stage where it is the best or comparable to the best in the world by 2011. The rest will take care of itself with Deans steering the ship.

That the game has changed markedly since 1995 means that comparisons to Mains coaching breakdown technique is irrelevant. I doubt that Deans stands over the ruck telling Williams he is coaching Smith incorrectly. Frankly I would rather have Andy Robinson teaching me how to enter a ruck rather than Ian McGeechan. By 'others' I think you mean one or two, so? others thought Australia were going to lose by more than 15 last week, others think this 3N has been amazing... What imrovements have you seen then? I think you'll find that once the World Cup had kicked off the favourites were NZ, SA and Australia. France's odds dropped following the Argentina game and the aforementioned 3 went down following their impressive performances. So why would you bring up pre-game odds? How utterly irrelevant.

Not sure why the era matters, you think a 15 (and really therefore any back?) cant coach players about the ruck, others on here dont agree with that assertion. No one has stated that Knuckles "ruined" Aus rugby, he just didnt do a great deal with it as far as I and many others are concerned. Deans hasnt had the chance to achieve anything yet, he's only had 4 Tests! He has won them all and those who know how Aus have performed can see improvements in vital areas. While I agree AUS were favorites against England they were never "heavy favorites" to win the comp. That is absolute rubbish, you may want to delve into that sharp memory of yours again. I know I backed them at 20-1 a few weeks before the start. NZ were odds on about $1.55, SA about $5 with France about $7 and by the time it started AUS were about $13 or $14. Ireland were around $20, Eng $25-$30, $50 the rest.

If Connolly won games through the innate ability of his players then why isn't that ability shining through now? Similarly you should have expected Australia to beat SA given that innate ability, how can you say what Deans has achieved if that innate ability is there? I'm confused, or perhaps you are? I doubt many Australians were enjoying that brutish intensity in Marseilles. When the cap fits... Let's be realistic, the game is beautiful, but this 3N has not been. It has been plain bad. Januarie's try was an excellent individual effort and the Australian try was a well engineered move, other than that... Btw why don't you qualify how my response is muddled, just for interest.

I think your response has been muddled just a touch, whether by your hand or not, you might want to re-read it. The surprise in that QF in Marseilles was more to do with England rising from the ashes after they barely escaped their group by playing some appalling rugby, not so much Australia's poor play. Knuckles did OK and managed to win quite a few tests more on the innate ability of his players rather than any coaching grand plan. Lauaki's try in Dunedin was sublime, as was Januarie's. Tuquiri's team effort too. But the adjective applies more to the brutish intensity at the breakdown in all three games. This is rarely seen in S14 and is a real thrill. Ben cheer up mate this is a beautiful game, we all love it and this whole thread is evidence of that.

Sublime moments of skill - delusion. Absolute delusion. Rugby annual fan, well you just listed the generic favourites and somewhat oddly appeared to have missed a lot of rather super games inbetween. Again, I will reiterate, this nonsense about Knuckles ruining Australian rugby is just that, during the WC they were one of the heavy favourites, they were playing some good rugby too. That they lost to England was an aberration. Prior to the game they were 1/8 favourites. In contrast Deans has realistically not achieved that much, or in any particularly impressive style. These OTT literary swoons over the man are the delusional. All this, poor, poor Australia... allow us some time to enjoy our win is fine, if not a little sad and indeed rich, but I think a little pinch of objectivity is needed. Hubris and self-entitlement? I think you're a bit confused. As for my provincial mindset I'm Irish so unfortunately that little chestnut doesn't apply here. Nice try though.

Benjamin. You need some objectivity? The ABs play in the first test v the Lions in 05 was near perfect, we'll be unlikley to see better for some time, although I hope I'm wrong. The ABs have been the most consistently succesful team over the past 10 years and have produced some glorious play from some wonderfully talented players. But they are not alone even in contemporary times (although they are ahead). That's my point. It's hubris and self-entitlement like you are displaying which has cost them the World Cup when nearly every year they were the favourites. Underestimate the oppostion at your peril - you'll be right 9 times out of 10 but that 1 time is a killer as I'm sure you know better than most. As for a 'rugby annual fan' not quite sure what you mean, maybe I'll check out engrish.com There is very little delusion in this thread as very few have made grandiose, over-reaching statements, just surprised optimism where last year it was in scarce supply. Nothing wrong with that. We'll wait and see what Saturday brings and then re-assess from there, one step at a time. As for a chip on my shoulder I'm Irish so unfortunately that little chestnut doesn't apply here. Nice try though.

I would imagine that it's not logical because Jim Williams controls the breakdown. I just don't think that the head coach is going to specifically coach the breakdown. It's also a bit different comparing the breakdown in 1995 to contemporary forward play. I also suspect that players like McCaw and Smith require little coaching. I still don't see how Connolly has become this epic bogeyman either, I do recall in the WC that Australia were certainly heavy favourites to win the overall comp., and let's not forget that the England victory was completely unexpected. Ultimately the players are pros who are taught how to control the breakdown at their clubs so I can't imagine them being less inspired or more lax for their country.

benjamin, connolly was head coach. bucks stops with him. the team was underprepared and played without ticker. deans has the man management skills, the inspiration for the players to do special things. Deans is a true coach, hands on, not above putting the cones ootu or bringing them in at training. this sends a strong message to the players. Do as I do!!!!! True grit does accumulate in most but these are elite rugby players who have the grit latent, at least. it is just about skilling them and inspiring them. they also need to be fit. i suspect that this can be improved, but that depends on s14 coaching staff. deans wasnt on board early enough. It is now called counter-rucking. whatever, it is true, in your face, grit that asks the opponents "How much do oyu really want this ball and the game???" Justin, a tough marker on the backs. What about some of the tries they have scored?? Tuqiri to Barnes in the first minute or so, Giteau goes around the outside of caveman, Hynes wins the ball in the air for a try, and for me, the best was tuqiri scoring and the team effort finished by three backs against Boks. Even Mortlock's try last weekend was a good one. Good hands, straight running. try time. Or Cross's two tries against France in the second game. Burgess has given quick service (sometimes a bit wayward) and another attacking option. Remember some of those snipping runs in the past few weeks. Barnes has done well as a second ball player and tight defender. A-Cooper has been good under the high , good kicking and in counter attack. They will only get better. Benjamin, Aust got rolled at the breakdown in the qrtr final against England. Smith or no Smith. also, see my comments about the backs above. Who cares who is doing it. The bottomline is that they are doing it, the forwards are competing well in all aspects, set piece, restarts, breakdown and running and defending. The backs play faster, more accurate skillful rugby and defend well. Yes, there's room to improve but skill and effort are up and tactics are better. Go Dingo and all those concerned!!!! As I said in the initial article, lets enjoy it and support in whatever way we can.