Why do union props always look so unfit?

I think we have missed the bigger picture here, the point being made is that front row forwards in professional rugby union have no need to carry excess body fat. These boys are good athletes no doubt but with fitness and conditioning coaches as well as nutritionists why are the players not in better condition? Who will argue that losing 10kg of fat whilst gaining 5kg of lean muscle would make for a better all round prop. Remember you don't have to be fat to be strong. Who is a more intimidating opponent Cain Healy or Martin Moore, you decide boys.

In League scrums are uncontested they are only there on sufferance to restart the game. The scrum half feds the second row and the game restarts. Any member of the team could lean on his opponent on the pretext of being a prop, that is probably why in league some teams to all intents and purposes are made up of 13 centres. No problems with them all being called centres but props that is a misdescription.

asking why union props look fat is like asking why gymnasts are so short or basketballers so tall. Union props are very much like powerlifters they have to have strength and mass. You can go to the gym and lift 200 pounds but if you are a skinny runt the prop who can also lift 200 pounds will out scrum you because he has more mass. Proffesional props find the balance between mass power and stamina, they never work on speed as that is not their core role. Carl Hayman found the perfect middle ground and is exactly what the ideal prop should be.

Gav...in all honesty, although i have tried to explain the characteristics between league props and union props, and why union props are shaped the way they do...i agree that union props do often LOOK fat, especially at amateur level. whether they are or not, i do not know unless body fat analysis is carried out to asses % body fat. another reason why props may be overweight is due to the age old cultural & social expectations of props that is still popular within amateur rugby clubs. props are expected to be big, to eat lots and have the ability to sink a pint in 1 second and prop up the bar all night...none of which helps the waist line!...many props and rugby players in general fall into these social expectations that are almost as traditional as the game itself. this is just an idea which may provide an insight into why props are overweight (stereotypically speaking). its been an interesting discussion though!

Hi Ed Sadly I don't have a BSc but I do have a set of eyes. rugby props look fat to me. Some more than others and I've never heard of muscles making the body look like a barrel, I'll have to check my old anatomy texts for that one

sadley im four months too late for this argument, but its been funny to read most of these posts. clearly the majority of the people on this site have an opinion from which i have no idea where they got their information from! I play both codes, both at prop, and both to a high standard, so i know what im talking about at first hand, moreover, my MSc in sport science helps my arguments. 1. comparasions of league vs union props? these to style of athletes are completly different to each other, with the only similarity being the NAME of their position, the comparasions should even be made!! 2. gav (who is clearly gouding us all) wants to know why according to BMI union props are fat? all rugby players of either code, when tested by BMI would be regestered as 'fat'. this is beacuse BMI does not take into account large amounts of muscle. although BMI does have a high correlation (for the ave population) in predicting diseases in people with high BMI. 3. why do strength athletes like union props 'look' abit tubby? they do look tubby, there stomach might stick out and they will look like a barrell! why? beaucse there bodies and torso areas are covered in deep slabs of mucles. in order to build such large amounts of muscle, the athletes must consume up to 1000kcals above the norm. furthermore, to keep these slabs of muscles, and recover from each game and training session (which is equivienlnt to two controlled car crashes per week) they must continue to eat large volumes of food. if they do not, there bodies wil go into a 'catabolic state', meaning there bodies will start to eat its own muscle for energy! 4. but why do some strength athletes look so ripped compared to props? if you are reffering to bodybuilders, then the images you see of them 'ripped' is when they are in 'in-season'. they look very fat in the off season, which is a time when they are simply concerned with packing on muscles and eating lots to maintain and help gain as much muscle as possible. 5. who has the best core strength? firstly this depends on which contexts...there are many forms of core strengths. but off the top of my head and for the meaning 'normal' people reading this, i would say that league props have better core strength...although union props core strngth will also be insainly strong. why have i decided this? beacuse the league prop is a sprinter, who is invleved in 20-60 collisions per game...on average they sprint for 4 seconds, every 30 seconds...according to dan lugars book, props in union never sprint! they simply run very fast for some of the game... did you know which type of running is most common during the game? walking!! over half of the game in union is spent walking! im not sure what it is in league, but i have read somwhere it is about 20min of the game. anyway, back to the question: some of the most important physical aspects for sprinter is posture and core strength. everything comes from this!! have you ever wondered why league players stand so upright ? its perfect posture, and it helps them run faster. also, all the collisions that league props make or which they often have to try and turn, spin and continue to sprint means there core has to be able to absorbe the impact and transfer the energy into moving and running. unions props will also have very strong cores, their lower backs and necks will be musch stronger than league props...no doubt! there core which is VERY SPECIFIC to there sport is very strong! could a league players core with stand to the scum? yes i think it could...but they would break their necks trying! who is the fittest? no competition here! it will be a league players! jonathen davies after player his first game of unio after 7 years in league said, (after being asked the biggest difference between league and union) he said, 'i never got cold playing league!'. but any position in either code can be easy or hard...depending on how hard the individual wants to work. heres a few things to you might be interested in! as mentioned sherridons bench press is 200kg...a fellow league players is 180kg (cant remeber his name but plays in NRL). both are clearly very strong men! rugby league and union are the most abused sports in the uk for steriods (second to bodybuilding). my own experience AFTER player a game of each is this...proping in union makes me feel so sore all over my neck (the back of it), all over my back and quads. this is clearly from all the scrums, ruck and mauls. in league i am most sore around the chest, biceps and fron of the neck...this will be from all the tackles being made on me and me on them. both props at the international level require insain fitness levels, strength and mental determination. at the amateur levels there will always be a mixture of lean props and fat props...we all play rugby, no matter what code...it takes a man to play! repect both code, learn from each and you will be a better player!!! (many union players play league in the off season, such as treveor leotor (however his name is spelt) to help their skills...thats is why i first started....i ended up loving league more than union!) lastly...sory about spellings...i cant be arsed to spell check! end!

After what I've seen today, we need some league forwards to come to rugby. They didn't do basic things like support play, a la Randwick. It's a disgrace. What Deans is doing I wouldn't know. The ELVs don't do much for me. The tackling by Oz was a disgrace I'm afraid we are suffering a talent drought. The Shute shield will have a couple of players ready to go to test rugby. Perhaps A Jones should have gotten the nod as coach

that's him. Thanks Al. What a grand effort.

Gavin, yeah his name was Ken Williams, i remember he moved on from Drummoyne and played at Briars when i played colts around 2000. I think by the time he hung up the boots he'd clocked up nearly 1000 games- thats a bloke who should be in the Rugby hall of fame. Fitzsimons did a bit about him a few years back

On a more serious note their are at least 3 Shute Club sides where every forward seems to be over 120 Kg. It certainly lends itself to high scoring rugby as thet sloth about the field. If you think I am joking have a look.

LOL! Years ago, I think at Drummoyne, there was a police prosecutor, Williams I think his name was, played about 500 games for the dirty reds...a remarkable feat. Good on him!

Uncle Unit ...to get dropped from the shute shield .......it is hard to do......the dirty Reds must not only have lost the wheels off their tractor but had no engine to drive the fat slobs up front.

Sadly the wheels fell off Drummoyne's tractor and they were sent down from the Shute shield. They were even said to have wanted to go in with Hiunter's Hill, that great subbies club. Thank God that didn't happen

You cannot compare a mungo prop and a rugby prop.The rugby union scrum is the lynch pin of the game, it is a weapon!Typically, the rugby prop is a low gravity model and the loosey's job is to anchor the scrum,he does not move.The Kiwi's had the best guys in Kees Meuws and Carl Hayman,we were sadly lacking,our guys weren't big enough.120Kg plus gets you a guernsey in the engine room,less than that, too small! The mungo guys are designed to lean in their scrums and spend all day running backwards to the ten. The rugby prop isn't fat,he is stout,trained to take on all the stresses and strains that go with playing in the tight five.My club,Drummoyne Rugby, is famous for it's"Red Tractor" scrum which is tailored around squat musclely props,we have been destroying opposing packs for nearly 135 years now. I used to be between the the two props as a hooker,so I know a bit about props. I have the funny feeling, a few of the comments regarding fat props were written by 'minty eaters',backs to the unitiated,who have their own game, it's called 'sevens'.Leave the eight man game alone..... P.S. It's very hard to get good props from Kings and Joeys,they need to spend some time on the beef boning line at Ocean Beach Freezing Works,Invercargill,too understand the hardships involved in playing front row in our neck of the woods... Thats enough,go the Wallabies this weekend,Rocky getting one week sucks,must have been a Kiwi on the judiciary?

here is something humerous. According to this wiki article, Parramatta's mark Riddell (league prop } is affectionaltely known as "fat bastard"

but the only running they do is to the refrigerator

did you seeing the big guys at the olympic weightlifting. they are all portly or fat. but very strong!!!!!

Oh that's interesting Matta, who do you know at Leinster? We'll just have to agree to disagree regarding O'Gara because I'm pretty convinced he's been Ireland's most consistent performer over the past few years.

and Ben, for the record I watch alot of NH Rugby and am a massive Irish Rugby tragic - I actually know someone who plays Leinster and a mate of mine has a brother playing for Munster, but can not agree with you on O'Gara. Sure he's played the odd good test here and there and is a solid provincial performer, but he has 'gone to water' too many times for me. I am by no means agreeing with Gavs statement the 'props are fat' but they do carry a little more pud than most other Elite Footballers of any codes...I also say there is no problem with that as it helps them.

Jesus Ben - Touchie.. I was actually agreeing with you on most of your points....