A Hitchhiker's Guide to the Magners league

Munster 28 - 20 Cardiff Blues Connacht 15 - 8 Glasgow Edinburgh 32 - 12 Scarlets Leinster 19 - 13 Ospreys Ulster 14 - 16 Newport-Gwent D'gons

Weekend fixtures... listed under GMT. Friday, 19 September 2008 Connacht v Glasgow, 18:30 Edinburgh v Scarlets, 19:30 Leinster v Ospreys, 19:35 Ulster v Newport-Gwent D'gons, 19:30 ---- Saturday, 20 September 2008 Munster v Cardiff Blues, 19:30 ----

An interesting opinion from Lawrence Dallaglio, courtesy of bbcsport.co.uk: England hero Lawrence Dallaglio says Magners League teams can use their tournament to prepare for Europe in a way Guinness Premiership sides cannot. "You have to look at what works for you and we have developed the Guinness in a way that works for us in England. "I've never played in the Magners, but every game in the Guinness Premiership is a tough match. "Talking to the Celtic guys, they want the Magners but prioritise Europe." Dallaglio - who is coming out of retirement to play in Saturday's Help for Heroes match at Twickenham - believes Welsh, Irish and Scottish teams are able to rest players and field weakened sides. "If they finish mid-table in the league it's not the end of the world and they still qualify for Europe. "But for us in England, it certainly would be the end of the world. "We can't put out a second team in the Guinness Premiership and keep our first team for the Heineken Cup."

I can give one rather significant reason as to why the ELVs are a waste of time - the majority of ML teams simply do not have the ability to manage any game situation beyond mechanised turgidity. The games I have taken in so far have literally been appalling. Diabolical. Shameful. Embarassing to watch. The Cardiff - Ulster game was the worst. Shocking. The games involving the Welsh teams only serve to illustrate the magic worked by Gatland, Edwards and Howley. Dai Young has to resign. Unless Wales can find better coaches the national team will always be operating behind the gainline. Scotland have shown no real improvements either with Edingburgh getting a real shellacking in Dublin and Glasgow losing at home to a 2nd/3rd string Neath-Swansea team. Leinster, Neath-Swansea and perhaps Munster are the only teams of any strength. It's silly that they should have to play in such a sub-standard competition.

Just taken in Newport Gwent 25-27 Llanelli. Passionate but not free flowing, the wet weather wasn't conducive to loose rugby but some of the back play was nonetheless quite good. Stoddart in particular stood out for his constant line-breaking from full back. Tom Willis, who won Man of the Match, had an excellent game, accurate in the throw and so, so committed. Kees Meeuws was a bit lazy and got driven back whenever he fancied a drive, which seemed to lessen as the game progressed. David Lyons looked powerful and should be excellent on the dry tracks. Other than that the Wales hooker Matthew Rees had a poor day with the darts - I cannot abide by hookers who lob the ball in as opposed to a smooth, basketball-esque free throw. Stephen Jones was poor - he has this awful habit of crabbing across the pitch and then flinging a pointless scissors ball 5 yards backwards. NGD definitely had the win there for the taking but didn't post any points in the second half. Re: the ELVs - the breakdown was a bit of a mess - Newport Gwent certainly had the upper hand at the point of contact. There was only one attempted rolling maul which was taken down within 5 seconds. Not much kicking but a lot of whistling from the referee.

Thanks Dave. Colin, I think the selectors think Thomas lacks that yard of pace. It looks like Jamie Roberts is being groomed for that back up role now. I'm not sure about Roberts. He has the size to make his side of the scrum untouchable but he really looks like he needs to shed a few pounds, something that probably wouldn't go down to well with Gatland or Edwards. Mtngry, I've actually been reading about the new Welsh rugby league team. Be interesting to see how that goes.

The Welsh cop a lot of criticism about what they have done, I always find it interesting that the Warriors have since become the First Welsh Professional Rugby League Team. Personally I would like to see more Celtic teams... Pity Cornwall is tied to the RFU.

The Magners league is not universally liked in any of the three countries in which it operates but I believe it offers the best prospects for an ongoing professional rugby structure in the three countries. Although soccer and rugby are not always comparable, we can look with some trepidation at what would happen to our local games if we do nothing and let the economic pull of the Englsh premiership win out. When you see the semi professional shambles that Irish and Welsh soccer are (apart possibly from the three Welsh clubs that play in the nether regions of the English leagues) and the duopoly that is Scottish soccer with, effectively, a choice between God and the Devil (Celtic or Rangers) every year, you realise how well rugby has done to keep a professional game going in the Celtic nations. Despite what the Welsh may spasmodically think, no one of the three countries has the clout or support to survive professionally on its own. We have to co-operate with someone. Why not with each other? There used to be 12 teams in the Magners. However one Scottish (Borders) and one Welsh (Warriors) team have since folded. The IRFU tried to sideline Connacht as well but people power faced them down. All of the ML teams are provincial or regional sides a step up from the traditional clubs. Ireland's premier competition used to be an All Ireland club league. It was very popular in some parts of the country (Limerick) but the trouble with many Irish clubs, and it is the same in Scotland, is that many of them are old school sides, reflecting the upper and middle class origins of the game. Their appeal is limited. Who the hell is going to support Old Belvedere, Blackrock College, Watsonians or Heriots FP unless they went there? By contrast, in Wales the clubs were based on towns and villages: Newport, Pontypool, Cardiff, Llanelli. They had and have a natural hinterland of support. In the borders of Scotland, too, the clubs are based on towns and villages: Hawick, Kelso, Melrose. Ireland was lucky. It has its four provinces (which always played each other every year) and these were an existing regional structure that was easy to build a group of teams around. Wales, despite the greater popularity and spread of the game, nevertheless had its traditional Four Great Clubs which dominated the game and which were all good enough to play against (and occasionally beat) touring SH teams. Ireland's ML teams are its provinces. Wales' are nominally at least super clubs which are supposedly different entities to those that play in the Welsh domestic league. IE the ML team is officially the Llanelli Scarlets, whereas plain old Llanelli play club rugby. Ditto for the CArdiff Blues. Newport and Gwent together make up the Dragons while Neath and Swansea comprise the Ospreys. But really, that's all a bunch of fig leaves concealing the traditional four giants of the Welsh club game: Newport, Swansea, Cardiff and Llanelli. Scotland's border fans just could not bring themselves to swop their parochial rivalry for larger jerry-built "regional" sides with no history in the game. The decline in Scottish rugby since professionalism is not a coincidence. Hopefully, they will come to realise that supporting "new" Scottish sides is preferable to seeing all thier good players disappear off to England or France. The portents are good, however. Munster and Leinster have both refurbished their grounds. They are small but predominantly seated and increasingly covered. Ulster are due to too. Season ticket sales have been brisk. Some of the Welsh sides too have ploughed money into refurbished stadium facilities. Edinburgh should move the hell out of Murrayfield. There must be a soccer side in Edinburgh which could rotate its 20,000 seater stadium so that their small crowds would not look so out of place as they do at the cavernous Murrayfield. As for the almost automatic entry to the HC: that is a vestige of the original set up of the competition when each country was guaranteed a certain amount of places. WAles at one time had five teams in the HC. Now it's three. I believe that will change, especially if the need comes, as hopefully it will, to accommodate clubs from more parts of Europe. At the moment the HC comprises only teams from the Six Nations. However clubs from Romania and Spain play in the Challenge Cup. They tend to be whipping boys but hopefully that will change. As they get better the need will come to limit qualification from the ML to the HC. And both competitions will be the better for it. But all in good time.

I agree a compromise should have been made but this is either a problem caused by the Welsh regions or it is all about money which is usually the answer, but I feel they could have done more to keep them. I think most of the players you mentioned will never play for Wales again but I feel, after watching Lee thomas and Roberts progress very well last year, they should be in the Wales squad for the AI's. I genuinely believe that had Thomas and Roberts played for the regions last year that they would have been part of the Welsh squad. As you may know, Thomas received a ban which ended the Friday before the Newcastle game. PSA rates him that highly that he decided to put Thomas at 12 and McAlister in his less favoured position of 13. That to me says he is the second best Welsh 12 behind Henson.

Fair enough Colin. Macleod was certainly a missed opportunity for Newport (potentially) and Roberts should be playing regularly in Wales. There are so many players playing out of Wales currently; Roberts, Darren Morris, Ben Broster, Ben Evans, Will James, Brent Cockbain, Michael Owen, Alix Popham, Nick Macleod, Lee Thomas, Tom Cheeseman, Barry Davies etc surely a compromise could have been made to keep some of them in Wales?!

Benjamin, I agree with you about Bonner-Evans and Evans as they were poor signings. However Roberts has been a very useful signing and the likes of Lee Thomas and Dwayne Peel (obviously) have significantly added to the squad. It remains to be seen how Marc Jones and Nick Macleod will do at Sale but if Gatland wants to go through with his plans to basically do a New Zealand or Australia and only play players that are playinf in Wales then the regions are hardly going about it the right way.

I see your point Colin but I'm convinced that a lot of the Welsh players that Sale have invested in have been poor; Evans, Bonner-Evans, Roberts and now perhaps Davies. I wouldn't imagine any other GP teams would have been interested but having said that I also see your point about Manu. There are plans for a 5th Welsh team, that would operate at semi-pro level initially and therefore act as a finishing school for young, and perhaps older, players who are capable of making the step-up to the ML. I firmly believe that Wales have the players to have a great pack but that they achieve so much more with Gatland cannot be a coincidence. Phil Davies was a very average coach, as was Lyn Jones and Dai Young is hardly setting the world alight. Cardiff have a ligh weight pack, as do Lanelli. You are right, the teams need to invest in their front five asap. It is bizarre that the regions have ignored the time-honoured tradition and brought in Argentine or Italian front five players.

Benjamin, I know the that most of the Welsh players signed for Sale becasue of KIngsley Jones and it's also the reason why the French players sign for Sale (because of PSA). It just seems bizarre that Ross Davies never even got an offer from the regions even though he'll have more competition at Sale for a place. All I'm saying is: If he's that good that he gets an offer from a top GP team then why isn't he considered good enough for one of the regions. Surely Newport need a prop. Even Llanelli persist with that useless foreign prop Manu when he can't scrum to save his life. I remember the EDF game last year between Bristol and the Scarlets and even though Llanelli had the more talented backline, they hardly got the ball because they were dominated in the scrum and breakdown. Unless these Welsh regions, Ospreys and maybe Cardiff excluded, don't sort out these problems then they will never win the HEC of even the Magners League and I think this may have an effect internationally.

Borders was shambolically run which is rather sad given that it is the rugby heartlands of Scotland. It is good to see Edinburgh and Glasgow improving but the SRU is a mess. It wouldn't surprise many people to know that the big bossman in Scotland is not actually a rugby man.

I think the Scottish premiership got more fans watching Hawick then they did when Borders was in the HEC cup.

Colin, I think that Sale signed Ross Davies because Kingsley Jones is assistant coach - that is why Sale also signed Bonner-Evans and Evans when no other GP teams were interested (they have subsequently been released). Similarly Mike Ruddock and Clive Grifiths have already brought in Matthew Jones and Haldane Luscombe. Coaches tend to go with what they know. I agree with your point about the player spread. Wales have been struggling with the 7 position so why didn't they send young Osprey's pretender, Ben Lewis, to Newport to play alongside Charvis last season? Likewise why isn't Biggar playing 10 at Newport instead of the ageing O'Connor? I recognise that career professionals might not appreciate having to slog it out intermittently with young superstars but then the young players should be given a 2 or 3 year loan deal so as not to upset any squad harmony. Having said that, I have read that the Ospreys expect Biggar and Owen to front up when Henson and Hook are away but it is perhaps a natural reaction for clubs to want to wrap their young players up in cotton wool.

Just adding to the debate, looking at the structure of the welsh regions, although they are set up to produce young Welsh talent (with the restriction of foreigners etc), some of the talent isn't perhaps harnessed in the right way. In that I mean if they were really dedicated to producing players good enough for interenational then some of the talent should therefore be spread out equally. For example, if you look at the talent have at their disposal who aren't in the first team such as Gareth Owen and Dan Biggar (because of Henson and Hook) and yet would probably get in most other Welsh regions is a bit worrying. Also the this system was also set up so that the regions would sign players from the Welsh premiership if they were talented enough, just to see if they could make the step up. But unfortunately this isn't happening at the moment. I just find it strange that a top GP club like Sale are willing to sign a player from the Welsh top league and the regions aren't. This happened when Sale signed Ross Davies on two year contract during the close season. Unfortunately I'm not so sure how the Irish and Scottish systems are set up so I can't really comment on how they're run.

Thanks Adam. The ML is a bit of a Catch 22, although nobody likes to lose why bother if you're guranteed a HC spot? Although that may be a bit of a glib. I agree that the HC should be tied to the end position, the play-off system that is being adopted for the 2009-10 season should be helpful but until there is a real threat there will always be a handful of games that are more farce than force. It is good to see a Scottish resurgence but that should be expected with their playing base distributed across two teams. The real losers are Connacht and Newport. Although they are widely considered feeder teams they are treated far worse. In contrast to that, Munster and Neath-Swansea and Cardif and Leinster can pick and choose what games they turn up for - and until the coaches decide to play every game then they are only doing a disservice to the national game as a whole because (a) the players aren't used to tight games, (b) it is a turn off for the fans and (c) it is a turn off for overseas stars. It's interesting you mention Contepomi Adam because apparently he has had a lot to say about various Irish players - O'Callaghan, O'Gara and Leamy specifically. He is clearly a committed professional but the Ireland v Argentina Autumn test will be interesting. I've always had a soft sport for Leinster given that my family are from Dublin but I can't help but admire Munster - everyone's favourite second team. Leinster still need a modern second row. Hogan fits the bill as a no.4, albeit smaller than average, and O'Kelly is bordering on retirement. Cian Healy will be a great player, he's going to be an Irish star. Can't wait. The backs production line at Leinster is superb - Kearney, Fitzgerald, D'Arcy, Sexton, O'Dirscoll, S.Horgan. Superb.

"Cheers for the Review Benjamin, the only thing more I could ask for is a guide to how to pronounce Llanelli" cla-neth-li i think is the way to pronounce it but dont quote me i'm just imitating Setanta's Commentary. ;) ML wont be half the league until its taken seriously by all regions that compete and all regions are properly funded. I think tieing HEC places to ladder position and ladder position only is the silver bullet that will work, because they are so so so obsessed with HEC if you tie HEC with ML and make it in there interest to take the whole season seriously then the standard will improve.The fact there will be playoffs is another thing that will make things better for the league. As for this season i think the order will remain Munster,Cardiff,Ospreys,leinster to dominate with Llanelli to challenge and Edinburgh Glasgow and Ulster to fight it out mid-table and sadly Newport-Gwent and Connacht to battle out for the wooden spoon. The ELV's have had a good effect making the games a fair bit more exciting it wont stop penalty shootouts. Anyway i fell in love with Leinster attacking wonderful rugby that they played before ELV's with alot of teams relying on a big forward pack to beat teams into submission not expansive attacking rugby. So i support them that and one of my favorite players Felipe Contepomi plays for them. As for coverage its on setanta as you know its improving and is better than the GP (which figures because they dont have to buy content off sky and its there own coverage from the UK except anglo-welsh cup) there is supposedly a highlights program this year.They like GP put games on whenever they feel like it (thats where IQ and Mystar comes in handy *pats his mystar box* ) and live games when it doesnt clash with football/soccer. Also they are putting on most of the games they cover in the UK and Ireland now albeit delayed by several days. ROAR ON LEINSTER!

Roger, Dan Parks is the bully boys favourite. If anything goes wrong he tends to get the blame. He's an excellent kicker but not a great distributor, however he was won Glasgow a lot of games. Davo, to an extent that is true. The top 3; Munster, Leinster and the Ospreys could attract top stars if they wanted, I would assume anyhow. Most of the teams are looking to recruit good, but not excellent, SH players - Rush, Tiatia, Blair, Hoani McDonald, Willis etc. I think that because the Magners League is not competative it would appeal to the older SH player as opposed to somebody who wants more of a challenge and is younger. Perhaps the provinces cannot afford the stars? Tah, you'r right - Davo, the Euroepan Challenge Cup is the equivalent of the Uefa Cup. Mtngry, Fence's pronounciation is spot on.