Sidebottom "wouldn't mind" kicking 10 every week

Redb - a bit like Canberra - Aust footy was once upon a time much stronger than it is today - - the Canberra Raiders plus the Super 14s managed to take precedence. However - the way the VFL in the '80s had to focus on survival of clubs in financial strife and the need to expand or collapse - - well, perhaps the NRL has a partially similar scenario now 20 odd years on.

The AFL or should I say the VFL and its clubs really dropped the ball in both QLd and PNG in the 1970s to 1980s. Aussie Rules was fairly strong in Nth Qld and PNG, it has made some strides in QLD, but only just recently in PNG. The geographic divide has not helped with Sydney-Brisbane RL influences spreading to Nth QLD and PNG in that period similar to the Melbourne AFL sphere of influence in southern NSW. Redb

TT - re PNG - - Aust Footy has been relatively and quite popular there since about the 40s - - the war!!! At varioius times it might well have been the major football code of PNG. However, as the old VFL really started their focus on a national league and ensuring the VFL clubs didn't all go belly up during the 80s - - at the same time, RL started leveraging via QLd into PNG and RL certainly took the ascendancy. But, Aust Footy continued on - - but it's only in the last 7 or so years that a proper AFL PNG umbrella association has come into play and organised juniors. So, now, Aust Footy in PNG is in a reasonable position - - a PNG rep on the recent IC 08 trip here indicated they have about 20,000 juniors playing - - and if that continues, it'll only further bolster the senior level footy - - but, it needs an outlet, and needs stars in the AFL. On that front, Mal Michael has been a poster boy in PNG, but he's just retired. It was timely then that PNG won the IC'08. That got a good amount of coverage. Now, the next good thing that needs to happen is that a PNG lad gets drafted - and on that front, there's a few in the QLD talent pathway that are a good chance of at very least - getting into the new GC17 squad. If that happens - - well, who knows where it will all go. The thing the AFL HAS been doing pretty well is combining auskick style programs with aiding communities and education focus - - (as you have to, that way you can access extra funding!!) - - so, those programs that have worked with Aust indigenous communities and are working in South AFrica in the townships - - well, PNG is as good a place to have a crack too. Funny thing out of all that, the AFL aren't overly targetting spending their money where great financial rewards are the promise. At any rate though - - I still reckon that RU and Aust Footy should work together more often, and the ARU would do well to join with the AFL in combined programs in some of these regions. They are different enough codes, esp around body type etc - but, RU certainly has a greater kicking focus than RL, and a few positions (esp full backs) spend a bit of time running about - - and for them, they'd benefit from being able to play and train with Aust Footy clubs.

TT - in the early days in footy there was the Rev. Douglas Nichols at Fitzroy, and later Graeme 'Polly' Farmer at Geelong and Syd Jackson at Carlton, and a little later Barry Cable at North. It's kinda sad that one can so easily list off a small number of key players who progressively laid the groundwork for the next 'generation'. The reality is that there was a very small Victorian indigenous population and it was not overly well 'engaged' - - the VFL I gather could have been much better in the early days - - but they weren't on their own there. (Eddie Gilbert should have been an Australian cricketing great!!). During the '80s, pretty well on the back of Jim and Phil Krakouer at North Melb - more an more talent aboriginals were recruited. Kevin Sheedy at Essendon certainly made it almost a policy, and from that perspective more a policy to ensure they got it right. That was certainly an important turning point - - but, also, the right time, as, on the back of Nicky Winmar and Michael Long etc - the whole racial vilification issue was tackled - - and quite successfully - - and on the back of last cricket season - we see that the AFL managed to tackle that issue about 15 years ahead of their time via a direct reference to the ICC.

MC, I think Essendon were the real pioneers in getting indigeonous Australians into the AFL, and in terms of celebrating their involvement in the game, the AFL and NRL are streets ahead of the ARU. Re: the cultural issues, at subbies level, getting some of these Islander boys to pay their rego fees was like getting blood out of a stone, and I can recall seeing a list of guys suspended, about 75% of the names were either Polynesian or Melanesian, but when they're on their game, they will win matches for you!

MC, as a rugby person, growing up I would have loved the opportunity to have had a chance to play Australian Football, unfortunately there was no real chances to do so, I hope more kids get the chance to experience differant sports that they want to play, as opposed to ones that their parents influence them to play.

TT - that attitude and discipline issue & likelihood to go 'walkabout' sounds so similar to the 'issues' that VFL clubs had with a lot of the Aussie indigenous kids - - however, 'education' of the clubs themselves at better handling, settling and supporting the kids. It's very much a cultural thing. The AFL clubs seem pretty well on top of it now, and have a whole lot of support structures in place - - and tend to ensure that if they have one then they are likely to have 3 or 4 indigenous kids on the list at any given time. Strength & stability in numbers certainly seems to apply.

MC, PNG used to have a side in the Queensland Cup for RL. I don't think they are ready to have a team, the place is still backward, the fans are incredibly violent (a bloke was watching the State of Origin one year and his wife changed the channel, he beat her to death!) and which players in their right mind would play there. They would be better served by having their best play in the NRL or ESL, although I really think the NRL has let PNG down in this regard. How many Papuans are playing in the NRL now? I really think the NRL takes PNG and their love for league for granted. I know RU is looking at PNG big time in terms of future countries to grow the game and the QRU is looking at getting involved as well...still a lot of work to do though.

Justin - actually that's a major reason then that it'd be in the interests of Rugby for kids in the Pacific region to learn BOTH footy and rugby at school - - as, they will in all likelihood end up as absolute guns in the code they excell at the most. remember, in NZ more and more Rugby aspirants are playing footy during summer rather than cricket. and a recent Worldfootynews.com article has a story about a Frenchman (who has been involved in footy in France) who has returned to New Caledonia with his Vanuatu born wife - - and is aiming to get footy going there - - again, as an off -season sport especially for the Rugby boys. - - - I've said often before here, that my greatest shame about Australia is the Rugby fraternity has for so long shunned the possible benefits of Aust footy x-training and I'll always point out the quality that came from Wagga where kids grew up playing both Rugby and footy.

Justin, the only real downfall of these Islander guys is that their attitude can let them down - ala Rupeni Caucau, who was probably one of the most freakishly talented players of the past decade, yet his indiscipline really cost him (like when he missed his flight and his tendancy to go walkabout), over in France it looks like he took a shine to the food and ended up looking like a beachball with legs, mind you he was that freakish he was still scoring tries and outrunning blokes with slimmer waistlines with relative ease!

Greg Russell - As Naitanui has been quoted elsewhere today, his twin brother is 184 cm, Nicholas himself is a bit out of the box and didn't really see himself suited to rugby. re Fiji, presently Port Adelaide has two Fijian born players in David Rodan and Alipate Carlise. North Melbourne has Samoan born Aaron Edwards. And Wayne Schwass (former player for both North and Sydney) was part Maori. AFL (VFL) never had a terribly great concern about seeking to attract players externally. The 'Irish' experiment has always been a bit of a novelty rather than serious policy - and just by a number of clubs who either can afford it or are looking for a 'backdoor' access to talent outside of the draft. It's only really in the last 12 months that we hear stories of talent scouts popping over to Fiji (even though footy has not really been played there). There is some footy (semi serious as it can be) in the Pacific, such as Nauru, Samoa and Tonga - - often it's based around one or two villages - - and in those places the village to village variety can be quite stark. Samoa and Nauru were both represented at the recent AFL international Cup, and Tonga who were unable to attend in the full tournament, had a side (I think with a few 'ex-pats' or not quite eligible players in the line up) that played against 'Team Africa' and 'Team Asia' in the 'exhibition' matches. With footy taking off again in PNG - along with the AFL re jigging the International Scholarships - - expect to see a few Pacific Islanders and PNG lads coming through. However - - it's been enough of a learning curve over the last 25-30 years to properly accomodate large numbers of indigenous Australians - - and their tends to be sufficient 'exotic' element brought to the game via these lads. As an Australia only competiton - - it's right that the AFL has focussed on development in our backyard and on some very good programs including the Clontarf academies with respect to indigenous kids. Learnings from this experience are assisting in the work in South Africa. btw - - re PNG - - remember that it's a fairly rugged nation - - the highlands for example are....just that.....quite high, rugged, remote, and access has for a long time been fairly limited. I've noticed the calls for a PNG side in the NRL. One thing I'd love the AFL to do is encourage a PNG side in one or more of the folowing: AFLQ (first though, the NT side is entering the AFLQ next year I believe) Under 16 and Under 18 national championships - - most likely in Div 2 vs NT, Tassie, etc.

Athletically Pacific Islanders are amazing and generally love the contact situations of rugby. They have not been know to excel at kicking from hand to foot though for whatever reason. If they were brought up on AFL it may different but even the players mentioned above are not well known to be good punters of the ball, in fact most fans pray they dont kick it!

Greg, Ive always maintained that the Islanders are some of the best athletes on the planet, although they have a real aptitude for contact sports, therefore its not surprising to see them exel at rugby and American football. I remember reading about American Samoa, where American football is now dominant, and the reason being that you can earn more in the NFL than the GP/Top 14 or Super Rugby. I thought Ken Nagas was either Aboriginal or Torres Straight Islander? Solomon Islanders have also had futbol as their primary sporting focus, but none have really made a name for themselves in the A-League or other big leagues. Interestingly in PNG, I actually think they have really underproduced, considering they have a population of 6 million, they have produced nowhere near as many top class rugby league players as say fiji/tonga/samoa (which each have a far smaller population) have produced in rugby union.

When one looks at the Pacific Islanders in NZ rugby, it is a mystery that all Australian football codes do not seem to recruit at all from the Islands. For example, Sitiveni Sivivatu was an under-age football rep for Fiji, skills that one often sees in his freakish ability to "dribble" a rugby ball. The pace, swerve and size of Joe Rokocoko mean that he would have been a huge success in AFL if introduced to the game as a teenager. These players came to NZ schools on rugby scholarships as teenagers. It is hard to imagine that they would not have been open to offers from any of the Australian football codes at the same age. But even in NRL we haven't see a Ken Nagas or Noa Nadruku for nearly a decade now. In this context it is very interesting to read above that a Fijian-born player, Nick Naitanui, is about to become a top draft pick in AFL. This could be the start of a cultural change in Pacific Island football. Of course rugby will always remain no. 1 in those parts, but it could be that it ceases to be the exclusive choice for Islander kids looking to make careers out of a football code. When one looks at what indiginous Australians add to AFL, one has to think that Pacific Islanders could add a new level of excitement to the code. Similarly, A-League academies should be looking to recruit talented kids from all around Oceania - Solomon Islands, etc. - as a way of maintaining quality as the league expands.