Reds sign All Black Braid

Melon, I think you are proven correct to some extent this time - Josh Blackie (former Highlander) has been signed to play for the Blues next year. He's been playing in Japan for a year, and, as long as he comes back as good as he was when he left then he's a step up from Braid IMHO.

Allblackfan: I know. I'm being perhaps a little tongue in cheek. But, since I'm a die-hard aussie, I hope you can forgive me though if I've more tears to shed over Australian rugby and its problems than NZ rugby and theirs. Although I acknowledge the counter-argument for this - i.e. that Oz rugby is strengthened by having a strong NZ across the ditch and that parochial thinking is short-term thinking.

Melon, I think you're missing the bigger picture. NZ's population is only 4 million; given the current demand on NZ players, this is a well of talent that will dry up sooner rather then later. While the NZRFU can also draw on the Pacific Islands, it's worth noting that the Islands are drawing interest from Australia, South Africa (lately), the NRL and even the AFL (?!?!?). (Take a look at the playesr wanted page in any issue of Rugby News; see what kind of demand there is for even B grade players in Europe and the deals they are offering!) We are also talking about world-class talent; we need to develop a new Richie McCaw, a new Dan Carter or Carl Hayman. It's not enough to have a player who's of international standard; we need world beaters if the ABs are to remain the benchmark, or even world competitive. (Let's not forget our WC failings!!) Granted, there is depth in NZ rugby but that depth is fragile, especially given the recent reports of Australian franchises trying to lure young Kiwi players.

That's not strictly true. European rugby is full of Australians. You only have to look at how Brock James has developed to see how many potential good players are available were the Super teams and the ARU to get their act together.

The way I see this is that it only increases the number of New Zealanders playing Super 14, giving more NZ players exposuree to a fairly high standard of rugby and therefore increases the already great depth NZ has in rugby talent. You NZers are like sharks teeth - when one falls, there is always another lined up behind it just as sharp. It's when you run out of these backups that things become a problem... and I don't think that's going to happen. If anything, doesn't this give younger people over there an even greater incentive to want to play? That is, now you can see that there are more opportunities and it can lead to opportunities to earn a living all over the world. I think part of the problem in Australia has been that if a player doesn't make it into Super rugby pretty soon after school then they just sort of fade away and there are so few opportunities to break into a Super team. So we are developing this talent from a young age and then at times watching some good talent wither on the vine.

The Reds real problem is they can't hold onto their own talent.

ABF, I was trying to be positive on this! For years, the Reds have been bleeding their best players to NSW, ACT and WA, and they hit rock bottom in 2007.

Reds cleaning up, True Tah? I think it reflects their lack of depth. What happens if Braid gets injured for a period of time? Who's his back up?

Greg, one thing with Ezra Taylor, I remember reading one of the reasons he chose the Reds is because his partner got a professional basketball contract in Brisbane. I hope he produces the goods for the Reds, they have had a few lean years and I reckon with Mooney at the helm, they are turning things around, but one position where I think Australia is spoilt for choice is in the backrow, put it this way, if Ezra Taylor is picked for the Wallabies, it would reflect poorly on our backrow talent (or lack thereof). Braid is a underrated player, he is a good signing for the Reds and agreed it shows that the Reds are cleaning up their act.

Greg, Interesting comments. I agree with 1 - QLD seem to be moving ahead, at a time when the other three aus franchises are struggling a bit (off field at least), and despite their rubbish on field performance last year, I expect they'll do better in 2009. 2. - they'll do nothing, just like they didn't change the rules when Tony Brown played in SA. Braid won't be selected again for ABs, wasn't up to it this year (injury notwithstanding). Logic doesn't need to enter into it! It would be come interesting if, say, Ali Williams was signed to play in Australia, then I think they'd have to consider allowing S14 players. To me this would't be a complete disaster - you'd still be comparing players playing against each other when selecting ABs squad. 3. Clearly is about $$, although if he really wanted to chase the money wholley he'd be heading to France. From Braid's comments also suspect his partner (I don't know what she does) had something to do with it.

Braid is a fantastic signing for Qld, exactly what they need, in that he has both a lot of ability and a lot of experience. So much for stating the obvious. Here are some less obvious points, some of which have been already been (lightly) touched on in the above discussion, to which I am a latecomer: 1. When the Reds signed Ezra Taylor (who, incidentally, is a very talented player whose problem is not that he's a journeyman, but that he's injury-prone), Phil Mooney said "The most immediate need is a No7" and that the Reds would put all their resources into finding one. That they have now done. It's not too often in the last decade that the Qld management has actually done what they needed to do. So this signing is a very positive indication that Qld is improving its act off the field, something which usually results in improved performance on the field. 2. The NZRU is now faced by the curious tale of two Daniels: Carter will not play S14 next year (because he will have a "sabbatical" at Perpignan) but will be eligible for All Blacks selection, while Braid will play S14 but, according to existing NZRU rules, will not be eligible. Even the dullards at the NZRU will be able to see that this is a ridiculous and logically indefensible situation, so what will they do? 3. Forget all of Braid's comments about wanting a new challenge, enjoying the Qld lifestyle, and so on: the bottom line is that he's going to the Reds because they have offered him significantly more money than what he can get for being a S14 player and occasional All Black reserve in NZ. It has been evident for some time that Australian S14 contracts are worth more than NZ S14 contracts (how else to explain that so much dead wood remains in Australian rugby, while NZ has no problem getting its older players to take up contracts in Europe and Japan?). There is also the issue that the NZ S14 teams are run on a socialist model (the NZRU controls almost everything) while the Australian franchises have far more flexibility, i.e., they can offer a player like Braid a fatter contract. It follows from all this that Braid is likely to be the first of a trend, not an exception. For example, what odds that John Mitchell and Andy Friend are both searching for a good New Zealand prop right at this very moment?

AllBlackFan are you really worried about Ezra Taylor coming to the Reds as well? From what I can work out, he is journeyman at best and injury prone as well, and I thought he was Australian-born anyway, so at the end of the day, its not a catastrophic blow to NZ rugby. Kepu, well Ive heard mixed reviews on his ability and at Sydney club rugby level as well, I dont believe he would be able to make the All Blacks. I see your point, and I really hope the brains trust of Australian rugby has better development plans than simply recruiting a whole heap of Kiwis.

Matt, your point about the Force approaching the Waikato junior player reinforces my concern. How big a country do u think NZ is if you have the likes of Australia (players and coaches), England (both rugby codes), Wales (coaches and players), Scotland (ditto Aust and Wales), France (players) and Japan (players) feeding off it? NZ is no longer losing players in the twilight of their careers; they're losing players in the middle of their careers. There's an article on NZ stuff.com which makes my point on Braid -- the Australians are in a position to do real damage to NZ rugby because they are aware of the talent coming up through the ranks and will target them (due in no small part to John Mitchell, Deans and Nucifora). Look at the likes of Sekope Kepu and Ezri Taylor; all the talk over here about how promising a prop Kepu (an age grade NZ rep) angers me no end -- Aust rugby had no input in his development yet they stand to benefit.

Hmmm. Legal basis, that could well be a sticking point. I had a look on Wikipedia about this (source of all knowledge), with respect to the round ball game. Prior to 1995 (Bosman ruling) clubs paid each other transfer fees even after contracts had expired. Bosman case estabilished this as a constraint of trade. Currently fees are paid for players in contract only (as Jerry stated). But they also mention in the same para: "Historically, transfer fees were paid even when the player was out of contract (except in Spain), but since the Bosman ruling, this is no longer the case. This ruling occurred when the European Union declared that the practice of demanding a fee for players out of contract was illegal. However, in order to secure an income for smaller clubs, UEFA regulations still state that a fee must be paid for players under the age of 23. This may be set by a tribunal if it cannot be agreed upon between the two clubs." I'm not sure exactly what that means - receiving clubs still pay initiating clubs some cash for some players? And governing bodies can set fees rather than having them negotiated between parties? This is the type of thing I'm thinking about for IRB to do to protect 'smaller clubs' in a financial sense.

Nick - Transfer fees are, in effect, the cost of buying someone out of the remainder of their contract. The vast majority of rugby players don't transfer mid-contract they do it when their contract has concluded. There's no legal basis for a transfer fee in such a situation. There are exceptions, such as with Jerry Collins, where a player is released from their contract in order to head overseas but they're pretty rare.

Not sure ARU could, but we keep hearing about how much $$$ there is in the NH game. They pay the players heaps, they're earning well off 'our' players. I'd guess they could afford a one off payment. NZ (S14) players are contracted to NZRU, and NZRU funds development. They would receive the cash under the NZ setup, but it might be different elsewhere. I think that moving forward ten years this would be an important step in maintaining the viability of rugby internationally. If they trend continues, as Allblackfan alludes to, we'll have no competition in NZ. NZRU is going broke. It's the competition and structures (that need funding) that produce the players in the first place. No competition, no players. The competition there can't attract the same $$$ as NH in sponsorship terms because of the small population/weak economy. But by selling our players we develop we can keep it going.

Nick, could the clubs/provinces which import the players afford to pay transfer fees? Also, shouldn't the payment be made to the provincial union as opposed to the NZRU?

Hey, I've posted this elsewhere, but is a bit relevant to discussion here. Why don't overseas unions have to pay the NZRU a transfer fee for these players? It seems only fair that the NZRU be rewarded for developing players. This would allow them to continue their good work keep the supply of professionals coming for overseas unions, as well as protecting their local rugby economy. I appreciate would take change from IRB, but seems sensible to keep the $$ flowing from the people benefitting from these players playing for their teams and attracting sponsorship etc (ie NH clubs, now ARU) to producers. I'm sure other 'exporter nations' (SA, Island nations, Argentina, Italy, probably Wales, in fact most apart from France and England) would support this. I'm sure I'm not the first one to think of this - what are the issues stopping it? Would it work?

True Tah - the NZRU hasn't actually made any official statement about whether Braid would be eligible for the AB's but under the current selection policy I don't think he would be. The current policy is that a player must play for a NZ franchise or province, not just in the same competition. I suspect that this will be amended to allow the likes of Braid* to play for the AB's, sooner if not later (as an aside Grant Fox was discussing this very topic on the radio this morning). If that policy were relaxed, it might also allow the NZRU to look at recruiting other NZ eligible players who currently play in Australia, eg the likes of Quade Cooper or James O'Connor (I realise both will soon be ineligible for NZ when they pick up Wallaby caps, but they were the first two who came to mind). There is obviously some further issues to consider there, obviously the ARU doesn't allow non Wallaby eligible players in the S14 other than the two exemptions, but I wonder if that may be relaxed with an expanded S14. *not specifically Braid, but if someone like Ali Williams or Keven Mealamu opted to sign for an Australian franchise, maybe then. Unless McCaw is injured, Braid won't be selected again and even then I would expect the selectors will look at developing the likes of Thompson, Latimer or Messam as a more long term option. Braid's selection in Sydney highlighted a lack of depth and remedying that will be one of the selector's priorities. Benjamin - He's a parody these days, but he's doing very well at generating replies. He's turning into the Daily Mail of rugby writers to achieve that, of course. Barnes is much better, as you say, and I've noticed Jones does less and less match reports which is just as well as he doesn't actually seem to watch the games anyway - he always singles out the same players for praise or derision regardless of how they actually perform. For comment, I far prefer Brian Moore who is at least honest, up front and far more self aware about when he's stirring.

To be honest I think Braid would have got that dreaded phone call from Graham Henry (or probably even Steve Hansen) and seen the writing on the wall. "Sorry Dan, but we're taking Lats (Tanerau Latimer) up North with us as the 7 cover. He's younger, doesn't get injured as much, is in better form and is a better investment for the future". "Your Auckland team-mate Tololima-Ava'a has also looked pretty good this season too. He's certainly faster and more athletic, so we're not even that sure you'll be featuring all that much for the Blues next season anyway". I could almost be certain that he was overlooked for the NH tour and therefore realised that his AB aspirations were basically over. So he's heading off for more money. And I'd imagine that the Reds would play pretty well to fix their No.7 dilemma. ABFan, I agree that NZ is a small nation. But in terms of player depth we're still a very big country rugby wise. We may not have as many registered players as other nations, but we have the best systems for the players we do have. There are many kids getting signed onto pro contracts at school now. The 17yo Halfback from Waikato Boys was recently approached by the Western Force for a pro contract, but he was quickly snapped up by Waikato. All but 2 of the 2007 NZ school boys team have pro contracts. They are all on fitness and weights plans from before they get older than 16. NZ and SA can stomach a constant stream of overseas player movements, but it is certainly hard to stomach the Aussie S14 franchises taking players out of our teams to make up for the shortfall of them not having a decent develoment pathway (3rd Tier comp). Especially when JON has actively moved away from developing an NPC or Currie Cup, which is what gives NZ and SA so much quality in depth.