Manly dynasty faces salary cap challenge

Good! viva la salary cap! i hope it tears the team apart i mean who wants to see Manly continually winning premierships? *hears the sound of people vomiting once they get over the fact they beat Melbourne*

Good point Sheek. Dont forget injuries as well.

Manly beat Melbourne 40-0, & some people start talking about a dynasty. What is a dynasty? A 1000 years?? Back in 1975 Easts beat St.George 38-0 to win their 2nd successive premiership. Back then people talked of an Easts dynasty. Their next premiership win was in 2002! These grand final games are usually played & won in isolation. They can turn on one of two little things - Smith's suspension, Storm tired from tough finals run, everything clicking for the Eagles, etc. Back in 1975, the Dragons were demoralised by the sight of their champion captain Langlands drugged legless by a pain killing injection gone wrong. Give it up. Who knows who will win next year, or why? It might be Manly, it might be Melbourne, it might be someone else. There are probably half a dozen playing rosters capable of winning the premiership. One final thought. It's hard getting to the top. Often it's harder just staying there. Ask the Storm, or the Cats, or the All Blacks even..........

Also i must point out that rugby league at its current level is a hard game, even afl because the games have not evolved around the world it takes alot longer to bring other countries up to our standard, unlike soccer where you can throw a ball into a pack of kids and you find your next champion, so to speak, look at how many countries play soccer, its a easy game to pick up skills, ( thats not being derogrative ) as for the other games you need to be hard, tough, have balls, and then you have to learn the finer points to even get close to oz, in either games.

TT, Speaking of Warren Buffett - love his work. The most entertaining and intuitively accurate annual reports on the planet. Redb

True tah, yes maybe 1 or 2 players but it dont happen now, and yes maybe we would not qualify, i am not saying to just do it now, i am saying to maybe have it as a guideline for future players. Just a thought. I am trying to help, make some good strong points, not being negative. I dont want to see them crumble.

True Tah, Rolls my eyes - the AFL does not market itself to females that's just a byproduct I suppose. I hate listening to female AFL fans carry on about the players - "eww look at that one" blah blah. Be careful not to undermine Millster's undermining attempt at the AFL and NRL. He's got an agenda and he's not afraid to use it. :-) Redb

See your not understanding what i am trying to get across, yes your right about the dynamic of the game, and 30 years ago english soccer was the game being watched, so like i have said to you in my post about reversing what you have in soccer, well reverse that for rugby league, australia is the dominate country, you understand this, so the players from around the world to test themselves at the highest level move over here, from many the islands, now england super league is becoming more of a player, which to me makes sense, this is where all the big money is, so they will continue to make ground on us over here and one day the dynamic will change, maybe for the better, who knows, but unlike soccer league as you know is not a easy game to expand, they have done well to get this far, so your expanding soccer has already made its mark, so will cintinue to grow on the back of this. And my comment about having a good local comp is just that, because we have a good local comp our interest in the international game has suffered, i am not saying i dont want the international game to florish, i do. But it is going to take time for this so we need to keep our local game strong so we can sell it overseas, like they do at the mommet, it gets telecast overseas as does the a-league i think, not sure but you would know, ( this is the part being reversed, like soccer in england in the 70's they sold the game to other countries because they had a good comp, as rugby league have here in oz, but league in england is fast catching up) so all i am saying is yes, in soccer your players go overseas to better themselves, but if you had your own game in your own backyard in order then this would not be such a issue. Until you can see this then i cant help you. You seem to prefer to have our best players overseas, and like i have said, they only do it for money, so maybe not having a salary cap here in oz for soccer might be better, otherwise that galaxy guy billionaire can pay a fortune and you get your wish, galaxy to win every year. Cheers.

Millster, re: your various arguments concerning the issues of having a small suburban comp and the lack of comparable leagues, I really don't believe that it much of an issue - personally I go to sport to be entertained by that spectacle, I do not worry about how this compares to something else on a world scale, and worry about it being inferior...gosh, my salary is not going to turn me into an Allan Moss or a Warren Buffet and is probably pocket money compared to them, but I enjoy my job, by your logic, I should be packing up my current job. Personally I don't believe that either the AFL or NRL suffer from a lack of world class skill - I can recall two German housemates who went to an AFL game and then complained that their sports diet in Germany was limited to futbol, and they found it boring next to AFL - then again they were females, and I think AFL markets its product to women far better than the other codes, and it has that hunk factor that seems to be lacking generally.

The long post you wrote before I definitely don't understand now! On many levels. But just a few things - English football is not losing interest, quite the opposite it is attracting a global audience, the best players and major investors faster than ever before. Second the reason many clubs are represented in the Kangaroos players is a combination of salary cap effect (no one club can fit the good players in the cap) and also cynical marketing by the NRL to pick a team to maximise interest of the League fans. Thirdsly salary cap discussions dont exist at international level so you can't make the comaprisons you're trying to. Who would get the 'spare' Brazil players if theri national team had a cap on it? Its nonsense. And in any case players don't get paid the same way for internationals anyway so it just doesnt follow. Finally your comment about having a good local comp so not having to be too worried about internationals to me is a real worry. How do you know your local comp is good if its never tested agaist real, strong, external opposition? One can have a fair and exciting comp but where the standards are shit by world standards. That is where we most strongly differ. To me a suburban comp has real problems to be at a world class of skill in a small game not played much anywhere else. The razzle-dazzle might be there but again how do we really know its not just smoke and mirrors?

Oikee also the dynamic is different. Rugby League is not really played seriously in many countries. So we can keep players here and have the rep spot as the incentive because here is pretty much the only place the game is played at that standard. If you tried to do the same in football you'd destroy the game because you'd stop players from testing themselves and developing in the best leagues in the world. Its not only Australia either. Brazil is the most recognised national team yet very few of their players play in Brazil - most play in Europe. France is another example where over two thirds of what is a seriously top-ranking team (1998 world champ, 2006 runner up) don't play in their 'home' league. And I could go on. Probably the only football nations that don't have the same thing going on are Italy (because the league is so good, and also is of a style that fits the national team's style well) and England (because for one reason or another few Brits go and play in the best leagues in Europe, much to their detriment I might add). But the biggest point is that in League players have few places to go other than Australia, plus Australia is the top of the game at club level. Its the big fish in a small pond thing. And it is exactly the opposite in football. In fact I would HATE a Socceroos that came all from the Australian A-League. The whole beauty of them is that they get schooled in so many different leading leagues in the world and come together with those skills for us to enjoy.

oikee, you're wrong about England-based Australian not being eligible for the Kangaroos - Darren Smith was picked a few years ago. And if the Socceroos did not pick overseas players, there is a pretty strong chance that we would never qualify for a World Cup.

What i mean by money not a motavating factor, i mean players moving overseas to earn big money have to decide wheather or not they want to play for oz, it works in league and they accept this, so when they are coming through the ranks , if they are any good, they hang around to get there jerseys before they nick off overseas, so we get to see them play. At least they are loyal because this is a factor in the game. It works well for our local game, the socceroos are just a joke to me, no loyalty being paid to local players. This needs to change so we keep the talent here for awhile. Other-wise it will keep happening. Just my veiw.

The Kangaroos are a dynasty Steve, :) lets hope that does not change too soon. Cheers.

Millster, let me explain myself and then we wont have any misconseption, "the quality never differs" , watching soccer from england way back in the late 70's i had followed the game for awhile, the skill level back then is on par with the skill level now, maybe a couple of fancy overhead kicks but on a whole it has not changed that much. The one thing that really gets under my skin is when the game at any level, local or international, might be even score with one team the better side and then you have a player who looks to be knocked down as he is running for the ball in the penalty goal. As you know what happens is a penalty and the game is decided on that one result, not that the better side might have won. The crowd goes into raptures and the losing team are devistated. To me this is not a result, never will be so hence my saying, the quality never changes, theres that element of uneveness. This is why i dont bother watching the game anymore, theres always a element of doubt, but theres always next year for the fans, but you might have to wait 20 years for your next chance, hence different teams winning each year at international level. At club level its the opposite because of the non salary cap, so you get the top 2 - 4 clubs that normally win. With rugby league its the same but reversed. At club level all the teams are equal so to speak, so you have a good fair comp that being of such high quality we dont really worry to much about the international level. Now at international level you know the senario, australian kangaroos are that good that most people expect them to bring home the trophy, not from lack of trying by other nations, its just because our local game is that strong. And what i am getting at is because they win all the time people seem to get a cob-on, saying how lop-sided the international game is, so to speak this is because there is no salary cap at international level and the best team keeps winning, try and explain that to people and you get your head bitten off. Not the kangaroos fault, there just that good. Its not like they play against weak nations, we all know that england and new zealand are 2 of the best, france is getting stronger, but as you can see in league its a backwood step if you stay at the top, or are just to good without a salary cap involved. Now imagine if we had no cap at club level. The same would apply, people would lose interest because only 2-3 teams can win, the english soccer is going through a simalar problem over there, people are waking up,(took them long enough) and starting to lose interest. This is why they have discussed the idea of salary cap. The super league in england has woken up to the fact that by having relagation has broken clubs backs, why invest millions only to go broke. The cap is having a possitive effect on there game. I also have said if money was not a issue then we would not need a cap, but then like english soccer the wages would get out of control, and no player is worth the sort of money that some get in soccer. Unless your superman, and thats fictisous. Thats my veiw. So by having a strong local comp with salary cap involved helps each team get stronger, so by doing this you also help your international game because like you have said, you get more players right across the board to choose from, have alook at the kangaroos, you will see that nearly every club has a represebtative of their club in the squad. Now think about at club level without a cap, you would have the bulk of players from 1-4 clubs and the rest would lose interest. Its win, win by having caps in league, and soccer will do well by having their cap, maybe in 20 years you will see the players from the local teams more involved. Also in league we only pick players who are playing in our local comp, this is another area that might fast-track the a-league. You will give me your arguments but i dont think money should be a motavating factor, lets keep greed out of it, thats another thing that erks me. Please dont take any of my comments as a insult, its just the way i see the games and what good there is about them. Thanks millster.

Thanks for all the comments gents, looks like a real mungoes forum. Does anyone know the just how long a dynasty is meant to go for, or how many victories you need to become one? Greg, I think you certainly raised some excellent points, you do need a bit of luck to win a comp, and Manly had theirs but it is hard to argue against them deserving their title. I'm clearly in the majority though you believes next year will be just as tight as previous years. Manly fans should just hope their title defence does follow the likes of the Bulldogs and Tigers.

Robertson isn't leaving, don't know where you heard that from. One of the most under rated finishers in the game, Manly would do well to hold onto him, especially considering that under rating will mean he probably isn't on huge money.

Millster, hard to tell the Manly story without referencing NSWRFL tyranny ;)

Mick - Penrith (in 03), Tigers and Newcastle didn't already make a GF in the year before when they took it out. Time will tell but its hard to see Manly not making the Top 4 at least again next year. Millster, can't tell the Manly story without referencing Super League.

Oikee - I genuinely don't understand you with "the quality never differs" line and also the reference to the World Cup. The World Cup is an international tournament and so has little to do with club level sports. Socceroos players can be drawn from any club in any league in the world, as long as they are Aussie. So I just don't understand what you are saying. As for wanting clubs to dissapear trust me I don't have it in for any particular club (though in the NRL's case I think there are maybe 2 too many clubs in Sydney). Its not that I want clubs to disappear, its not that strong. Its what I dont want which is for clubs to be propped up by things like salary caps, drafts and other concessions when they may not actually have the financial or playing strength to survive if they were left to their own devices. Look at Manly. However glorious they were on the weekend, reality is that in a competition without so much protection they probably would have gone under some years ago. So while I celebrate their win I also ask myself whether it is such a 'real' win given it came about from them being propped up, and also from other clubs not being able to ram their own advantages home because of restrictions like the salary cap. I know its a different world to football and I know what you're arguing and can see your point, but can you also see mine that under so much protection sometimes people can wonder whether success is maybe sometimes a bit fake in some ways.