Fk FTA, the revolution isn't being televised anyway

Andrew P Still you probably the most high profile football player here so far. I haven't heard about any past NSL players going on this site. Got any comments/dirts on other players/ex-soccerroos? Any stories to tell?

I was a goalkeeper dasilva so not a "star." We left that to the pretty boy strikers! But thanks for the complement...

daSilva - yep, and since 2005 Foxtel have been working hard at gaining greater access to AFL as well, moving from 3 to 4 'exclusive' games, and getting 'better' games and specifically focussed on Adelaide and Perth. and at the end of the day, who should take credit??? Well, undoubtedly, there are overlap people, that, once they get their foxtel put on, will watch whatever they can lay their hands on - - and in Adelaide, any Crows and Power supporters who have signed on would undoubtedly be (in the main) on board with the AU ACL journey. What we do know about Foxtel is that in the early days it was a Rugby focus that saw the penetration into the NSW market in particular taking the lead. AFL was only later added........how much of the growth to 900K was in that? I know I got foxtel ONLY because they had the dedicated FoxFooty channel - - but, then when the kids came along, I let Foxtel go (just didn't have time anymore) (although, I always prioritised my club membership AHEAD of foxtel). It's only really been this year, that the FTA fan doesn't get to see one single LIVE game MOST weeks - - we used to have the 'early' Sunday game from interstate into Victoria - - now, that's a Fox game.

Das Impressive Foxs stats ........... can you get of the Foxs subscribers, what percentage have Foxs sports. Andrew P ..... good to see someone like yourself on the forum you are most welcome and look forward to your insight into football.

By the way Andrew P. You're probably the biggest football star to be on The Roar. How does it feel?

Andrew P ozfootball.net then go to Australian Player Database. There's a database on every NSL/Soccerroos match, club and players About Foxtel subscription June 2005 - 1 million subscriber - beginning of A-league June 2006 - 1.1 million subscribers June 2007 - 1.3 million subscribers January 2008 - 1.5 million subscriber So Foxtel subscription about half a million subscription. How much of it is due to A-league and Soccerroos rights is unknown For Rugby super 14 Only 2k when foxtel begin in 1995. 1996 when they have exclusive rights jump to 130 k. Then there was a steady increase in the next decade where by 2005 they have 900 k subscribers. I'm not sure what to make with this data.

Dasilva Yep, that sounds like me. But there are lots of games missing in those stats! Where on earth did you find those? I guess the point I was trying to make was that the coverage of the A-League is far superior to that of the old NSL, which is no way a knock of SBS, without which we would have had nothing. And while the actual numbers of viewers don't stack up against free-to-air, the fact that people are willing to pay to see their team play on TV is probably more impressive than having a FTA coverage. Does having the A-League and the Socceroos on pay TV increase Foxtel's subscriptions? Did this happen when they got exclusive rights to the Super 14?

IMO FTA should buy the rights of ACL and Soccerroos and leave A-league to FOX (although I would like to see SBS get the a-league. It's probably completely impossible nowadays). Those are international moments and they both have the potential to unite the nation. It's a huge shame that ACL is not in the FTa and it is one of the greatest reason there is lack of media coverage outside SA. However part of the reason Adelaide's attendance are falling is because of the A-league. People buy tickets to the ACL that is more expensive and then miss out the following A-league matches. Some people can't afford to buy tickets or have the time to go and watch two matches in a week. It is primarily a reason why A-league crowd is fallingi n Adelaide despite the ACL success.

Dasilva...I am not your enemy in relation to A league. Went to Tonga v Samoa at league last night had a good time. I am going with a football mate to Mariners v Sydney FC tonight. I have attended others before this each and every year of Hal 's existence. I will watch the Blacksv Wallabies on tape tonight. The A league is here to stay. the addition of the new teams will provide more variety and I believe higher crowds. FTA broadcasters are conservative. they do not grow a product and A league at the present time is not a target for them. This does not mean it will never be. I do not like soft analysis.No FTA broadcaster can take the risk at the present time in Sydney and Brisbane. Remove our bias and beliefs and if you were running these businesses you would hesitate . The time will come when the first FTA broadcaster to take a risk may be pleasantly surprised. However the time is not quite now. As always it depends on price and it seems sadly channel 10 already hard pressed to sustain its share of the AFL will find it cheaper to import US gridiron,baseball and basketball and very cheap Australian sports such as hockey/basketball/netball. i understand it has also picked up the swimming. As Dave highlights for one of the premier games of the year HAL got pay tv audience of 100000. HAL can compete but needs to do so week in week out. It does not do so at present.. Secondly Contrary to what we can get Fox is actually able to identify which market /s most of these subscribers come from. i do know that recent growth in pay tv subscribers has been skewed to Victoria.Overall the HAL Paytv audience has grown 7%. This is positive . The question is where? If much of this increase follows the growth in new subscribers this is not googd for Sydney and Brisbane. There is genuine concern that football numbers in Sydney and Brisbane are soft. End of story. We insult ourselves if we ignore this as does Jesse. This is to big a market to expect a FTA broadcaster to ignore. I believe that the Gold Coast over time will remedy Brisbane . Sydney is of more long term concern. I hope they will get a good crowd for the closest thing Sydney has to a local derby tonight. Dave please understand how FTA works . Your analysis suggests the FTA broadcastors should buy the rights to ACL not the A league where Adelaide's attandance's are falling. Hal will get there. . The main focus must be to improve the quality of the league and make sure the new teams are successful. Like it or not FFA must also sort out the Sydney market. This will be over the next 5 years although splitting Socceroos and ACL may be possible. FTA is a competitive business. Thay are watching but any whining at the current time ignores present commercial realities . It is self serving. I will put f**k in my next header to make statement . I can hear a Nicky Carle article coming on.

MV vs SFC drew a payTV audience of around 100,000 which is close some AFL and NRL figures. Pay TV audiences are growing for HAL. Given the last week or so it seems the crowds are slowly coming back with AU and MV both having best of the season crowds this week. As the season progresses and there are more meaningful games (in the context of finals) crowds will grow. BTW MC IR crowds down from 65,000 at MCG last time there to just over 40,000...40% drop on like for like! Maybe the GCC affecting the AFL! Dasilva If you add 3 x 17,000 capacity crowds for ACL to AU figures then they are having a record number of spectators watch them this season.

Westy if you count the ACL matches in the average crowd for Adelaide United. Would the average crowds still be down?

I must admit i find this article a bit precious and somewhat hypocritical. Instead of blasting the city of Adelaide and its football supporters for not supporting their club and their great achievements you berate the FTA media. Adelaide home games are down 3076 . Why does this city not support their own team.Sydney FC in a "one "team town of over 4 million has falling attendaces now averaging .13219.Despite whatever past injustice what commercial planet do you live on Jesse.This is really just a cheap shot not based on rigourous analysis but emotive drivel.

Andrew for the sake of accuracy the journalist was Ray Gatt....Crowds are down 60827 at this time last year and 20593 from season 2..........the biggest drops are Phoenix -4356, Melbourne -3671 and inexplicably Adelaide -3076. How does such a well performed club who is the flavour of the month in Adelaide have falliing crowds. ....He highligts the real problem is with two flagship clubs Roar and Sydney.In season two Sydney had an average crowd of 18229 last season 14882 and so far this season 13219....for the roar 17537/17082/13671. Brisbane and Sydney are too large a part of the Free to air capital City ratings to take a risk at the moment on these figures. More to the point much of the 7% growth in pay TV may be in Victoria. This last part is hard to confirm . However if it were correct Sydney and Brisbane are a problem and the 7% increase in Pay audience may not be enough just at the moment to persuade a FTA broadcaster. The day will come but I would consolidate the expansion first. The Aleague is not the Socceroos..

Andrew P I also think some of the punters are tiring of the same 8 teams three times around. Crowds are down overall this year by over 60000 as reported in the Australian.. I like the journalist think the format may have contributed. The new teams will be a fillip not only to crowds but variety of opposition.The Australian reported Pay TV numbers are up by 7%. Rome was not built in a day but their must be real concern over SYdney FC and the Phoenix.Free to air will not touch football with a weak presence in the Sydney market.

Andrew P - when you're only talking pay TV viewing figures of around 40,000 - - - with no FTA competition, no live attendance competition from other matches, - - - it's not really time to talk FTA when you're only talking a 5% increase in ratings at these levels. With the 4 games spaced over a weekend without overlap - - the entire soccer 'family' has the chance to watch all 4 games. In the AFL for example, you get fta broadcast vs pay broadcast and overlap of live attendance 'competition' etc. I reckon there's a far bit of Pay ratings growth still to go for FTA to really seriously look............however.........depending on what ch.10 does with their planned 24 hour sports channel?????

Andrew P Is this you? Prentice, Andrew Date of Birth: 09-Nov-1964 Position: Goalkeeper Playing Record Junior Club: Avalon, Manly-Warringah, Sydney City 1983 - Warringah-Narrabeen 1984 - Kuringai (NSW Div 1) 1985 - Kuringai (NSW Div 1) 1986 - Newcastle Rosebud (NSW Div 1) 1986 - Adamstown (NSW Div 1) 1987 - Newcastle Austral (NSW Div 1) 1988 - Newcastle Austral (NSW Div 1) 1989 - Newcastle Austral (NSW Div 1) 1990 - St. George (NSW Div 1) 1990/1 - St. George (NSL) 1991 - Manly-North Shore (NSW Div 1) 1992 - Eastern Suburbs (NSW Div 1) 1993 - Eastern Suburbs (NSW Div 1) 16 app + 0 sub. 0 gls. 1994 - Ryde City (NSW 1st Div) 1995 - Ryde City (NSW 1st Div) 1996 - Ryde City (NSW 1st Div) 1997 - Ryde City (NSW 1st Div) 1998 - St. George (NSWSL) 5 app + 1 sub. 0 cls. 1999 - Rockdale City Suns (NSW 1st Div) 2000 - Ryde City (NSW 1st Div) 2001 - Ryde City (NSW 1st Div) Coaching Record 2003 - Hakoah (NSW 2nd Div) Assistant Coach 2004 - Hakoah (NSW 2nd Div) Assistant Coach

Unfortunately, football forays into the FTA Networks, outside of the Government stations, have been disastrous. Does anyone remember the 3-test series between Australia and England in 1983, televised on Channel 7, commentary courtesy of Rex Mossop? Or the ill-fated Superstars of Soccer series on Channel 9? The original National League, called the Phillips Soccer League, started life on Channel 10 in 1977, but by 1980, had found a home on Channel 0/28 (for the youngsters out there, you'd know it now as SBS) The last time a football match was shown on commercial FTA was the hugely successful Sydney FC vs LA Galaxy game, purely because of the commercial appeal of one D. Beckham. As a spectacle to the masses, it couldn't have gone better, but there didn't seem to be a lot of interest from Channel 10 for a slice of A-League pie after that. I'd like to see some statistics that might support an increase in pay TV subscriptions due to coverage of the A-League and Socceroos games. Once that happens, if it hasn't already, commercial TV WILL be interested. And while I agree with Jesse's assessment of the FTA networks, football coverage is way better than it was when I was playing in the NSL (see, none of you know me - I rest my case!) Let's not forget, Channel Nine were sick to their stomach that they got the rights to the "wrong" World Cup, and that's why the Footy Show buffoons were falling over themselves to get in on the Socceroo act in Germany in 2006. There's no doubt the sleeping giant has awoken, and the rugby codes are scared...

Chris's views about the demographic shifts and FTA are I think spot on and often forgotten in all this. The prime target demographics are the ones moving to new media - adopting web streaming, pay-per-view concepts on various devices (whether home TV or portable) etc. As the cost of cable / broadband fed content into homes decreases and the offering becomes ever-broader, FTA will be consigned to servicing an older and/or lower class core audience. My guess is this will make it financially difficult for them to support major sports live with the quality and investment that they do now. At best I see FTA in a couple of decades being mainly about sitcom repeats and buying the rights to re-run the odd international off the pay/broadband carriers. I know that the current move towards HD multichanelling seems to be in the opposite direction to my prediction, but I see a period of adoption and conversion to HD by the masses, then followed by an increasing number of services for which people have to pay on that platform, whether directly or through some kind of interaction with sponsors/advertisers as a 'ticket' to the content. In any case we know what has happened to radio since the 1950's. I don't think the same tragectory is so far away for FTA as we know it.

One thing that is important to remember in relation to the ACL is the understanding of the Asian competition and the relative strength of their competitions. It wasn't until very recently that the Australian footballing public garnered some comprehension of football in Asia and even now many pundits remain dismissive of the football to our North. It was only in June 2006 that an inkling that things may not be a cake walk in Asia started to penetrate the larger footballing conscious in Australia. This is slowly changing however it will take time. It is healthy that two different clubs in the Mariners and the Jets have a chance to participate in the ACL and that their supporters will gain a better appreciation of the competition and the strength of Asian football. As it is taking time to sink into the consciousness of the footballing public it will take an even longer time for it to captivate the imaginations of the broader public. Hence the importance of the Socceroos'World Cup bid and, dare I say it, the Club World Championships should Adelaide face Man U, now a distinct possibility. These events will capture the non-football educated imaginations and will in turn garner interest from the FTA media and capture the columns of news print that we all crave. This is a reality that the FFA seem acutely aware of and their changing of fixtures to accommodate this marketing coup is a reflection of this. On the bright side the games are being show on ESPN/Star here in Asia as are the HAL games on Australia Network. Many in Asia know who Adelaide United are and are watching their progress with interest; even if it is taking a little longer to catch on Down Under.

I cannot comment on the coverage of FTA networks as I have not watched free to air news for a good 2 or so years. All my news is delivered via foxsports news, sky news and the of course the internet. I am more than happy with the coverage football receives. FTA has a vested interest. Also dont forget that their viewership would be an older demographic as well. Football has a younger demographic supporting it. The two dont match. PAY TV and Football, both younger demographic, thus the perfect match.