Pim Verbeek got sent off in his last match in charge of South Korea during the third place playoffs against Japan and is suspended for three Asian cup qualifiers. Graham Arnold is taking over and leading the side.
The issue here is not whether Arnold is capable of leading Australia to qualify to the Asian Cup. He already coached the Socceroos and the Olyroos through lengthy qualification campaigns through Asia.
I’m quite confident that the Socceroos will get the job done even with Arnie at the helm.
The issue is more why does it look like Arnold has a permanent seat at the Socceroos camp despite all the poor performance?
After the Asia Cup, FFA looked for a new boss.
The choice was between Pim Verbeek and Philippe Troussier. Pim Verbeek was chosen as he was the only coach willing to accept the precondition that Arnold will remain the assistant manager of the national team.
Why is Arnold so vital for the Socceroos that the FFA will not hire a coach that refuses to employ him? Is he more important than getting the right manager? When Pim leaves, will FFA force that precondition to all future coaching candidates?
Graham Arnold was then given the job as manager of the Olyroos. How do you reward a coach who failed with the national side with another job?
The most surprising thing was that Arnold selected the squad without any input from Pim Verbeek. Arnie may have informed Pim of his selection, but Pim never had any say in the make-up of the squad, causing us to have an under 23 national team that was autonomous and disconnected from the Socceroos.
Pim Verbeek admitted that it would have been ideal for him to have more control over the team, but he just had to deal with it. Why is it so important that Arnie had complete autonomy over the Olyroos?
Now Graham Arnold is coach of the Socceroos once again instead of Henk Duut. The question has to be asked: is this Pim’s decision or is it FFA’s decision?
dasilva
Roar Guru
KB "Maybe Pimbo should compensate the FFA for his ban sitting on the Australian bench for this Indonesian Fixture ." FFA knew in advance when they hired him that he was suspended for 3 matches and still decided to hire him. This isn't a surprise development. There was murmurs from the press about this 3 match suspensions when they first hired Verbeek. So FFA paid and hired him knowing that he will miss out 3 matches. If that was worth any money and cost to FFA I'm quite sure that was already considered in initial negotiations.
Koala Bear
Guest
Sam, yep you are right .. But in regards to Okon; he was a quality player .. You don't play for Lazio if you are an average hack; certainly not in the midfield .. I hope he starts off on the right foot with GCU and is groomed to be part of the 2014 WC in some capacity.. These sort of players have to start somewhere.. ~~~~~~~ KB
Slippery Jim
Guest
Pim seems to have genuine confidence in Arnold according to the interview in the SMH: "Q. You will be serving the first game of a three-match sideline ban in Jakarta. Is this the first time in your career you've had to sit in the stand? A [Pim Verbeek]. Yep, I think so. But I have fantastic staff, so I completely rely on Arnie [Graham Arnold] and Henk [Duut]. I cannot be involved too much. I cannot be in the locker room, but that's OK. So far with every game I get a lot of credit, because we have been winning, but we always do that with all the staff. So at this moment I am sitting upstairs and I leave it up to Arnie and Henk to make the decisions."
Sam
Guest
KB I think taht one of the problems may be that with an Australian manager players will perhaps tend to take certain liberties. This was noted in the last Asian Cup by Craig Foster where Arnold was in charge of the team. Arnold looked a nervous wreck on the sidelines and perhaps lost some of the players respect. With an experienced overseas coach there is not as much scope for this (although I think PIm is more flexible than most). Howver there is still that respect factor there, and that little bit of fear which a manager can put into the players. It was very evident with Hiddink that no player took anything for granted and played exactly to his instructions. We don't yet have an Australian coach who can do this. It is just too soon, and in my opinion won't happen for a while.
Koala Bear
Guest
Das, that about sums it up .. The FFA are not about to give the job to an Australian born manager.. While Frank Lowy is pulling the strings it won't happen .. The main problem is we never had an Australian oversees player turn manager who the players felt comfortable with .. Okon or Zelic ex Roo players would get the respect of the players; more so of Okon providing he can get the runs on the board as a manager leading up to 2014.. But, I still could not even see that happening whilst Frank Lowy is around . He has made up his mind that only the very best; a high profile o/s manager will fill the job .. I don't necessarily agree with that opinion... ~~~~~~~~ KB
dasilva
Roar Guru
KB My conspiracy theories is a bit of a jest The real reason is probably FFA just don't want to pay out Arnold's contract that extends to 2010 therefore they have to give arnie something to do hence gave him the olympics squad. They also forced Pim Verbeek or Phillippe Trousier to work with Arnold for the same reason as they are too tight arse (or too gutless) to give Arnie the sack. Pim probably did want Arnold to take over for the ACQ as he develop a working relationship with Arnie (although you can't rule out an FFA enforcement). Although I can't explain the amount of autonomy given to Arnie in the final olympic squad. __________________ Australia and foreign or locals coaches Australian coaches are in the same situation that players were 20-30 years ago. Very few are overseas. We are seen as a footballing backwaters with no coaching talent from Europe. They may want to poach our players but they are not going to poach our coaches. Because of that they aren't in the situation to prove themselves or develop themselves to their potential as they are not coaching to the highest levels. Guys like H. Kewell and Viduka played at the highest levels, we don't have a coaching equivalent. We do need someone to be a coaching pioneer (ala Craig Johnston or Joe Marston coaching equivalent) to path the way for future coaches to move overseas. Before that happens I'm afraid we can't risk having any Australian coaches to manage the national side.
Rob
Guest
dasilva, Thanks for the extra detail there! I guess that just goes to show that Arnie really does need to get out of the Australian scene to up his credentials. If he has got a UEFA license now, he should look for an assistant position somewhere in Europe to raise his profile over there, so that when a manager's job comes up, he has a chance. Or yes, coach in Outer Mongolia... :) On the Australian coach thing, Koala Bear, I think that to a certain extent the FFA's thinking, at least for the moment, is probably right. Vidmar has done a good job at Adelaide, but for a relatively short period of time. Let's see how he goes over a longer timeframe before we sign him up as the next Socceroos coach. I also think that what i said about Arnie is true for all the Aussie coaches - they need to get experience in foreign leagues as managers/coaches as well - before being properly considered for the national team job. The level of pressure and technical nouse required to coach a national team won't come from just being a good A-League coach. Sure, the Asian CL is a big help, and Viddy has proved himself well there, but imagine proving yourself in Europe, or even the J-League, week-in, week-out for 2-3 seasons before returning to Australia to coach again. Then you would have served a very good apprenticeship in the world game, learning about different styles of football, tactics, man management, etc. that would be indispensible to a national team coach. Look at the difference a worldly coach has done for the socceroos in recent years, and the difference under Arnold.
Koala Bear
Guest
Das, conspiracy theories are best left to Pippi... Arnie as I recall said his contract with the FFA was for the Olyroo job and as the assistant to Pimbo for the 2010 SA FIFA World Cup .. Much later he said he would not be seeking a new contract with the FFA .. I can appreciate that if he was offered the position as National Coach it would be very tempting for him to accept.. However, I feel he will be true to his statement and search for new career.. I recall that he also said that the FFA did not want an Australian in charge of the national team as they (FFA, Frank Lowy) did not believe that an Australian born national manager would ever be good enough to lead the Australian National Football Team ... I hope that attitude will change and we will see an Australian born Manager in the likes of Aurelio Vidmar or Paul Okon for 2014 .. But I won't be holding by breath in anticipation... It will be a high profile European imp .. If Frank Lowy has anything to do with it... ~~~~~~~~ KB
dasilva
Roar Guru
Correction - it was NAC Breda that offered Arnie a job and he scored 35 goals in 63 matches there. He's pretty much a legend at that club being the top goal scorer for that club fore 3 seasons in the row. So I believe that is his best options. Get the required coaching license and coached there. No one else would hire Arnie as he is an unknown.
dasilva
Roar Guru
Rob It may be difficult for Arnie to get a job overseas. Roda JC did wanted Arnie (as Graham Arnold had played for that club successfully scoring 21 goals in 61 games for that club as well as Guus hiddink reccommended him) but he couldn't get it as Arnold at that time didn't have the required coaching licenses (this is not because Arnie rejected that club so he can coach the socceroos like the official version) Graham Arnold also applied for Dunfermline Athletic F.C., Bolton Wanderers and Norwich City. However they all rejected him The problem is that Australian coaches aren't well respected and have no reputations. Dumfermline received his application and the club said we never heard of Graham Arnold before. It's very difficult for any Australian coaches to be given opportunities overseas unless they are willing to coach the very low leagues or in unfashionable countries (like outer mongolia like you mention) So I think the only hope is that Arnie get a uefa coaching license (I believe he's got one now), wait until one of his former dutch clubs where he played in needs a new coach (ROda JC, NAC Breda) and get Guus Hiddink to call the club to give Arnie a good word.
Rob
Guest
Well, dasilva, it IS outrageous that Arnold is still there, but your theory is well within the realms of possibility. Personally, I'm stunned that they would want to groom a coach who has no top-class experience as a first team coach. Arnold was offered a job in Holland after the 2006 world cup as head coach (can't remember which team), but chose to stay with the FFA, when the better option for him career-wise would have been to head back to Europe and really learn his craft. It's all well and good for the FFA to see potential in him, but without the experience of coaching teams in decent leagues, the FFA are selling themselves, and GA for that matter, short. Incidentally, Arnold was only Olyroos coach for the final few games and the Olympics proper. Who really set the Olyroos on the path to qualification was Rob Baan, who had them playing some good football. However, when I watched them in Gosford against Iraq (Arnold in charge), they were terrible, out-classed most of the time, and only won because of two well-taken free kicks/corners. The selections for the Olympic tournament were puzzling at best, and incompetent and negligent at worst, sacrificing quality young players like Djite to select guys like Archie Thompson, who never was going to be either fit enough or good enough to make an impact, all in the stated aim of "winning a medal". Funnily enough, they sucked at the Olympics, and Arnold has never been held accountable for the performance, making a comical revisionist statement that the team "developed well", when the stated aim was to win medals. So, the point of this long-winded post is that yes, your theory might be correct, but surely if they want him to be the national team coach, they should encourage him to apply for, and take, an overseas coaching role, whether in Korea, Holland, Belgium, or Outer Mongolia, so that he's "his own man", in charge of a team week-in, week-out, where his neck is genuinely on the chopping block when results don't go his way, and where he can learn the intricacies of shifting tactics on a weekly basis, based on the opponents his team is facing. Then, and only then, will we see whether Arnold is made of the right stuff for the Australian head coach job. At the moment he's just a guy who's got a couple of failed tournaments under his belt, and a whole lot of time spent helping out the main man. Not a convincing CV for a head coach of a national team.
dasilva
Roar Guru
The most disturbing thing for me is that having Arnold was a precondition that the national coach had to accept to get the job. It's been troubling me why is that the case? I think I have thought of an answer that explains why FFA are backing Arnold all the time and it may not look pretty ____________ One of the roles of the assistant manager is to learn from the manager and that when the manager does leave there will be a smooth transition as the assistant manager will take over. FFA believes that Graham Arnold as a potentially good coach and this is supported by Lowy saying that Arnold is the closest thing that Australia has of a world class manager. The Asia Cup performance was blamed due to inexperience but they still see potential in Arnie so they kept faith in him just like coaches keep faith on a struggling out of form player that they think have potential. So FFA kept him as the assistant manager and then handing him Olyroos and then now the Socceroos to give him more experience. Hence FFA is grooming Graham Arnold to coach Socceroos in the post Verbeek era perhaps the World Cup 2014 or 2018. After all Rob Baan did say he wanted not only for Australia to host the 2018 World Cup but for an Australian coach to be leading the Socceroos to the final as well. If you think that is an outrageous suggestion then perhaps people can leave there theories why Graham Arnold has a permanent job at FFA?
dasilva
Roar Guru
KB Yes Arnold was given the Olyroo job before Pim was appointed. Bit of an oversight. However It doesn't change my argument at all
Cpaaa
Guest
the return of GArnold, its been a while since the football fans have had a dig. still 10 days away and it has already began. there is truth in what KB is saying but i see Arnie on the bench till 2010. no matter what happens. lets just hope the A-Team can play some beautiful football in Indonesia and dare i say...where is Nicky Carle?
Koala Bear
Guest
Pim Verbeek admitted that it would have been ideal for him to have more control over the team, but he just had to deal with it. Why is it so important that Arnie had complete autonomy over the Olyroos? Das, Arnold was given the Olyroo job before Pimbo was appointed .. Maybe paying out Arnie's contract would have been seen UnAustralian in the eyes of the Australian Media.. and caused less Australian Media coverage that we are presently are getting from the Australian Press... Maybe the question you should ask is why is Australia being punished for what Pimbo did when he was in charge of Sth Korea .. Maybe Pimbo should compensate the FFA for his ban sitting on the Australian bench for this Indonesian Fixture .. ~~~~~~~~~ KB
Kazama
Roar Guru
I have a feeling that in the distant future, long after our time, a cyborg Graham Arnold will still be the assistant coach of the Socceroos.
The Bear
Guest
As I have noted elsewhere in cyberspace, if Arnie is now treated as "part of the furniture" at College Street, then we can all finally agree that he is formally dead wood. Clearly cut down before his prime, he should have gone overseas to a European club. He may have had a chance to better himself then, instead of stagnating. Shame FFA. Shame GA.
Midfielder
Guest
Das With Arnold Out there nothing is assured ...
vicentin
Guest
Ha ha ... I guess this has been troubling you dasilva. It troubles me no end too - the whole idea that we should somehow compromise our coaching selections just to fit in Arnie is extraordinary. Either "being a good bloke" has somehow risen up the selection criteria or, as suggested elsewhere, he and Kossie have some compromising photos of "fearless leader" Lowy... or something to do with aliens. File under X and get Scully and Mulder in I say.