Shute Shield – Is it important anymore?

Midfielder Redfield College are not a "school side" in the sense that Joeys, Iggies would be - they have always been playing in club competitions on weekends, I should know because I played against them in my younger days.

Bryan I have no idea if there are more or less the article did not give previous figures ... However that a parntership is made with a state school and playing a private school at the state school.... and this weekend over 1, 500 players who think they are at rep level (thus not counting those who do not think they are at rep level) is not a bad effort for a club on the brink of financial collaspe. The gist of this thread is I have heard or read no reports regarding the plight of Eastwood and yet will hear plenty about Sydney Boys high or Joyes but look at what Eastwood can provide and there almost 17 acreas of land as well.

How do those numbers prove rugby is on the rise? Where are the previous numbers so we can see the rise? Or do we just take this story's word for it?

Now for by far the best ..... and remember is on the brink but still does this, further HEAVEN forbid Eastwood has a partner with a (evil and hiss) STATE school but read about the trials being held for kids and sometimes the local housing commission kids for playing in one of the Eastwood rep sides the sheer reach of the club with soon over 1, 500 kids from all backgrounds trying to make the rep side. Then taken to the almost 17 acre training academy ..... But there where strange goings on .. read carefully this may shock they arranged one of the strong local clubs (with some housing commission kids) to play at a state high school against a private school ........OHHHHHh Funny I must have missed this story on the Roar OH a bit of an oversight I see. http://northern-district-times.whereilive.com.au/sport/story/junior-trials-prove-rugby-union-gaining-ground/ Trials prove rugby gaining ground Union11 Mar 09 @ 08:40am RUGBY union is alive and well in the northern district if Epping Junior Rugby Union’s new-season trials last Saturday are any guide. About 400 up-and-coming players took the field in the course of the day as Epping was tested by visiting teams from Redfield College, Dural. The trials were hosted by Epping Boys High School, rugby partner to the local juniors. Games were played in all age groups from under-6s through to under-17s. The school will host another series of trials this Sunday ahead of the All-Eastwood trials on March 22. The latter will involve about 1500 players from every club in the Eastwood junior district to provide Eastwood representative selectors an opportunity to view potential talent under actual game conditions.

Looking back at Eastwood a couple of things from last weekend...over two posts as the post does not show for quite a while if you have two links. First... a welcome return to an Woodies great ....http://northern-district-times.whereilive.com.au/sport/story/rugby-master-back-at-old-stomping-grounds/ Rugby master back at old stomping grounds sy JOHN BLAIR TEMPERATURES rose at T G Millner Field on Saturday when Australian rugby great Scott Staniforth turned up looking for “a run”. After turning out for Eastwood second grade in their trial against Northern Suburbs, scoring two tries and setting up a few more, the heat reached fever-pitch with speculation the great Wallaby warrior might be considering a return to his former club. But Staniforth, top try scorer with Western Force and Super 14 superstar, was “just passing through”. Staniforth, now 31, is working his way back from the injury which floored him in his first touch of the ball in the France World Cup. “He was in Sydney with the Force and asked if we could give him a run,” Woods general manager Robert Frost told the Northern District Times. “Naturally, we accommodated him.” Staniforth - nickname Spanner - who is originally from West Wyalong, and who is contracted to the Force until the end of next year, played 75 per cent of the trial game. “In addition to his tries, it just seemed everywhere he went on the day, tries were being scored; he looked in terrific shape,” Frost said. “Recovering from injury, he did not stretch right out but showed good pace.” Staniforth told Woods coaching director Brian Melrose he had enjoyed the hit-out and “loved being back at Millner”. A tough, experienced back, he is acclaimed as one of rugby’s best utility players. “We intend keeping a friendly connection with Force in the hope we will get a few of their players from time to time this year - but we won’t be getting Scott. “He said he wants to return to Perth and his family,” Frost said. Eastwood’s young second-grade squad clearly enjoyed playing with the master. “Scott’s mood was infectious and our boys caught the mood,” Frost said. “There was some good, exciting football played on the day and our squad looks promising for the season ahead.” Coach Melrose was “pleased” but recognises these are early days. The trials gave coaching staff a better idea of where they are and what needs to be their focus for this coming weekend’s trials against West Harbour at Concord. Woods Colts will trial at Millner. The final pre-season trial will be against a potent Randwick on Saturday, March 21 ahead of their season-opener at home against Manly the following weekend.

I love club rugby and I think its still the most entertaining level of rugby. But in its current form it will be hard to survive. The ARU has eaten through its RWC03 surplus and now everyone is belt tightening all the way to the grass roots. As traditionalist and a Norths fan I would hate to see the clubs merge but I think it might be the only sustainable way forward. It might look something like this: Manly-Warringah Eastwood-Parramatta West Hbr-Penrith

Yikes, My intention was to clarify the career path to Wallabies, & give premier rugby clubs more relevance within the structure. You can't play for the Wallabies without playing for a Super team. You can't play for a Super team without playing for a premier rugby district club. It wasn't my intention to suggest youngsters first year out of school couldn't play for a Super team, or even the Wallabies. Occasionally you'll find geniuses who can do precisely that. I just think overall, it's not a wise policy to sign kids straight from school, without them first showing their wares at senior ranks. And thanks for clarifying precisely how the system apparently works at present. With respect to the Force, I still think contracted players ought to appear for WA premier rugby clubs. The injection of these players into that comp can only help improve that comp. A player from Sydney contracted to the Force & WA club rugby, still won't spend more than about 6-7 months over in the west. Surely for a well paid professional rugby player, spending half the year on the opposite side of Australia isn't such a great sacrifice. And Perth is is just as pretty place as Sydney. Perhaps more so, depending on your perspective. It's not like professional rugby players are being sent to Siberia!

Midfielder - well what you have written is correct - except that the academy and the club rugby thing happen simultaneously one the player leaves school. They train with the academy during the week, and once with the club during the week, and then play club rugby on the weekends if they're not part of the S14 squad. Stillmissit - Actually a couple of Force players did exactly that last year on some occasions! I remember Ryan Cross and some others flew over for club rugby game day and then flew back for some games. And yes, initially they were all allocated local WA club teams. I think the Force have backed down on that now and so most of the non-Wallaby Force players are coming back to NSW club rugby after S14. I could be wrong on this last point, but that's what I've heard.

Yikes Can you explain to me how the system works.. From what you have posted a player is identified at say 15-19 years of age as a potential Super 14 playe, is then signed, then sent to an academy and from there to a club rugby team to learn his trade. Thanks in advance but is what I have posted correct or need some changes.

Hi Yikes - I am sure that the S14 players in WA wont jump on a plane and fly back to play club rugby and then fly back to WA. I am pretty sure that they are not all allocated to a local WA teams.

Stillmissit - to clarify - the decision that is only 12 months old is to allow Wallaby squad members who are not in the team 23 to play club rugby. I was talking about S14 squad members (both during the season when they're not in the match 23 and after the S14 season) who go back to club rugby. They have always done this despite the popular myth that they don't.

Yikes - I think what you are saying is common sense. The league has been picking up and dumping kids from school for a fair while (we have 1 at the subbies club I am involved with). If rugby's path for talented youngsters is, go to club football for 2 years and learn your trade then if you are still playing well we will contract you to S14, just won't work. There is also the risk that the talent they show can be diluted by playing a lower level of football. The rule should be 'Onwards and Upwards'. The downside I have seen is the injuries these youngsters pick up as their bodies are not tough enough at that age. Still they must and do toughen up it iis just a hard road to travel. Your statement that all players play club if not wanted by the Wallabies is only 12 months old. Prior to that we had players frustrated as they were mothballed and couldnt play the game. Let's hope we don't go back there. Sheek - some great points in your mail. I agree that promotion/relegation is a poor system due to the different levels between 1st grade and subbies. The clubs are all about what is good for them and bugger the rest and this is a part of the reason that they are in the situation they are in. Had they planned 10 years ago to build a second tier under S12 it would have been a different story but self interest and lack of a strong chairman of premiership rugby has brought them undone. Divide and conquer seems to have been the order of the day.

Sheek, your memory doesn't serve you right. He got game time in the Tahs' first trial, in Wollongong (I was there!), two weeks later he came off the bench against the Crusaders of all teams, and then two weeks after that was the starting 5/8 in Durban against the Sharks!! At the conclusion of the S14 season he played the rest of the season in club rugby for Norths after a stint with Australia A. Then he played ARC. The problem with you guys' arguments is you say "don't sign kids straight out of school" but this is a meaningless statement. Every player plays club rugby after S14 if they're not in the Wallabies, and every player not in the top 23 plays club rugby in the weeks while the club and S14 seasons overlap. So who are these kids not getting to play club rugby who have been signed that has made you so outraged? They don't exist. As for starting the best kids in seconds like Midfielder suggests - try telling Pocock leaving school, having just played Australian U20s, and with the world at his feet that he should sign a rugby contract - and he can look forward to playing in the 2nd Grade Easts team!! He'll laugh and sign a league contract tout de suit. As for the rest who aren't so good straight away - they have to earn their spots in their clubs side like everyone else. Sydney Uni's 2nd Grade team last year had several contracted Waratahs at times... Anyway, of course you have to sign the best kids out of school, because that's the time to sign them!

Well Yikes, With Beale, if my memory serves me right, was signed straight to the Waratahs, but I don't recall if he got any game time in his first year. He was more or less 'warehoused', spending a lot of time on the training paddock, & little actual game time. By 'protecting' their investment, NSW actually did him few favours, I believe. I believe this stunted his development for a while. He needed to get 'roughed up' by older players to make him realise he was now in a different world, & needed quicker reaction times. No problem with WA signing Pocock & O'Connor. But WA got them into the club scene which I think was the right way to go about things. So maybe I should clarify - perhaps Super teams can sign players from school as "additional juniors". But get them into premier rugby. That's where they're going to learn their trade the best & fast track their skills the quickest.

Not sure what your point is here guys - should the various states not have signed Pocock, Beale, O'Connor, etc from school? If they are good enough - what's the point of having them run around for a club side first? I agree completely that they must play club rugby at some point (and they all do if they don't get picked up in the Wallabies), but if there's no better 5/8 in NSW than Beale, then they have to sign him, don't they? And if no one from rugby had signed Beale from school, guess which sport he'd be playing now? I do wholeheartedly agree with the point that we must not lose sight of those players playing club rugby who may come good at a later age.

Yes Midfielder, an accepted fault of mine..........

Sheek Sometimes you have an excellent point and you hide it in a large post ... if I may extend on one of your points above. In point 2 you talked about the signing of Kids from school into S14 level. This is a huge point for three broad reasons, first the school kid has to be developed and tested and the best place in a strong domestic competition playing in the second team and on the bench for the first. Second not everyone shines at 15 to 17. Third if you offer some few places other codes in Australian will pick up all the best talent. In the academy thread I said the thing in the football academies is they actually bring through only a few players each year the best 1 to 3 they keep and the next couple may be sold. But they cut maybe another 30 players who on paper and in school and park games seemed similar its only when they get them into real games against full strength youth squads can they be actually measured ... So Sheek and don't hide such a brilliant point next time where does rugby or how does rugby develop its next level and know they are the best of there age without a strong local domestic competition.

To crystallize some points. 1. Club premier rugby may be as useless as say, Sheffield Shield cricket, as a financial concern. But where will the quality players otherwise come from, or through? 2. What we don't want, & are trying to avoid, is Super teams signing players straight from high school. This is no way to mould future champions. Otherwise you end up with misguided talent & unrealistic expectations (from them). 3. Non-professional premier rugby won't work, as much as I might agree with the sentiment of amateurism at this level. The genie is out of the bottle. And human nature being what it is, clubs will always look for an edge. 4. Therefore, the ARU/NSWRU must manage the professionalism of premier rugby. If this means basic salary caps & transfer drafts, so be it. The administrators need to protect the clubs from their own selfishness. 5. I am totally opposed to promotion & relegation in any form. Australian rugby isn't big enough & realistically, it promotes mediocrity rather than quality. With promotion & relegation, the talent will be spread too thin over too many teams. 6. As with marquee players, I advocate marquee clubs, basically the premier clubs as we know them now. Generally, these teams come from the bigger & better known suburbs. Also, high in current & growth population (most!). 7. Rather than dilute their power, let's empower Easts, Eastwood, Gordon, Manly, Norths, Parramatta, Penrtih, Randwick, Souths, Warringah, Wests & one other district club in place of University (preferably from Sydney south harbour). 8. To throw the baby out with the bath water is folly. Premier rugby is essential. The trick for administrators is to find ways to make the comp more relevant. Think outside the square. Look at success achieved elsewhere. 9. However, this also requires the clubs to be honest about their own relevance, & look beyond self-preservation to embracing new ideas & concepts of how to manage a (semi?) professional rugby club. 10. It's not always just about the money. Rugby needs to be careful it doesn't alienate its support base in its headless, heedless rush for revenue streams. Plenty of examples around of what NOT to do!

There is no doubt Australian Rugby is too top heavy on the Wallabies. Club Rugby doesn't appear to be on the agenda or if it is no one hears about. Club Rugby is administered by NSW Rugby who, well, less said the better about them.

Roger i am in full agreement with you . it would be astep in the right direction. I was merely responding to a minor point. Some on the Roar do not understand that some of our local rugby juniors play in the U/20's NRL competition so i naturally keep apositive eye on them.