The Force should be with Sam Norton-Knight

Good for him, he's young, not test material and Australian rugby is a sinking ship. Why just float about when he can do something positive with his career.

Silly article Spiro - followed by the normal NSW / East Coast biased narrow minded comments that you get on this site. It is a bit like reading a Greg Growden article - just plain self interested rubbish If this is the way the rugby community wants to tear itself apart in Australia then tell me when does the NRL start....

I don't know where all this praise is coming from for SNK. When he played at 5/8 in 2006, he wasn't that special. He was fine, but not outstanding. I don't think I've missed a Waratahs game in almost 10 years, but maybe I have because the only games I have seen with SNK at 5/8 he has not stood out at all....... I would rate Hangars above SNK as 5/8 anyway. And judging by the fact that Hangars is the backup 5/8, and the Hyphen is stuck at fullback, I'm obviously not the only one that thinks this.

Storm - Well said about SNK. I'm a big fan of this bloke as 5/8 and for the life of me can not understand why McKenzie & Co brought him over from the Brumbies and then failed to show faith in him by giving him a decent shot at the position. Seems the publicity machine or the powers to be (or who knows what), was all behind the young & talented KB and there was nothing to be done about it, he was to be the future 5/8 and that was that. Yes KB has developed nicely and may even one day become something special (if he doesn't defect the League) but crikey he's been given every opportunity. I just wonder how SNK would have gone if given the same opportunity. I reckon pretty damn well. When I see SNK chime into the backline or slot into the 5/8 position his vision and pass really gets the backline moving as a good 5/8th should, and the ball is even making it to the wingers. His treatment by the Tahs as that of Matt Bourke, Scott Staniforth and others just makes me wonder who's behind the wheel.

SNK is a number 10, Kurtly Beale is crap...So is Christian Lea..something...no vision...they have no feel for the game...Giteau is a master at that...you shut down one part of his game and he surprises you with another piece of his magic..will be sorely missed by the force...terrible timing though...couldn't he wait til the season was over b4 he did that?? I would love to see SNK at 10 now...he's showing the hunger and when someone is hungry like that...man....give him what he wants...what else do the force have to lose!?!? Get those damn scouts out there!!!.a diamond in the rough is right under ur noses... come on Aussies....you have talent...don't fall into that trap like the Pommies did...now look at their national side....lets keep it real down South... GO THE BLUES!!! (I'M KIWI BY THE WAY)

Has SNK been given much, if any opportunity at 5/8 for NSW. How do we know if he has the goods at 10 or not ?. The 5/8 position for the Waratahs has been a revolving door for a decade. Bowen, Edmonds, McRae, Berne, Donnelly, Halangahu, Berne again and now Beale. Have I missed anyone !

As a tahs supporter it is hard to be a big SNK fan, his boot is all side and his decision making is far below the accolades that had him bought up to NSW in 2006 - I remember the Laurie Fisher at the time saying that the tahs had paid well over his value to drag him up. SNK is more of a IC than anything else - he can tackle, has a fair pass, but doesn't have the where with all to marshall a team. Maybe a European adventure will sort him out. He's young enough to grow, so good luck to him. I hope we get D.Mitchell to replace him, he is a definite trade up in skill set, determination and talent.

Brett yes that is correct in how it works. Each Kiwi franchise is required to name a protected squad of 22 players that is off limits to the draft I think by late October. The coaches then look at everyone else available and make their draft picks to make up the rest of their squads. Sometimes coaches elect not to go to the draft like Greg Cooper did with the Highlanders and Colin Cooper this year with the Hurricanes and sometimes players request a permanent transfer to another catchment union to secure their position in a Super 14 squad like Rico Gear with the Tasman union, Ali Wiiliams with Canterbury and David Smith with Wellington. People may recall that in 2006 when David Nucifora was coaching the Blues he had omitted Rua Tipoki from his squad of 22 and was then overturned on grounds of compassion as Tipoki didn't want to relocate his family, this forced rookie All Black Isaia Toeava into the draft and being selected for the Hurricanes to allow Tipoki to remain in the protected squad. John Hart was very vocal in trying to move players around to other unions so that he and the selectors could see potential All Blacks competing against each other instead of sitting on the bench and the NZRU does reserve the right to involve itself with player movement if it is to the benefit of the national game.

HT - Is it a case of SNK not getting the opportunity to play 5/8. The Force need to replace Giteau so SNK should have been in there sights. He is only 24, whatever defincies he " might " have can be corrected and worked on, that's what good coaches do. Has he been pidgeon holed by Australian Rugby as a fullback / utility. No doubt the cash from Cardiff was too good to refuse. I don't mind when a player goes o/s at the end of his career but not during the early part i.e SNK Yes I am a fan of the bloke, he is very talented and it's a shame he is leaving Australian Rugby. Anyone that get's mentioned in some quarters as Larkham-esque must have some ability.

Roger, I'm not across the situation in SA, but NZ funnily enough DO have a draft for the S14 teams. However, before anyone claims "checkmate", I'm pretty sure the NZ draft only comes into play for players no longer required by existing clubs, or guys trying to break into squads. So I think the five teams go about finalising their squads, adding and dropping players as required, and any players left over enter a pool/draft. Not sure if the clubs then pick from the pool (which I think is the case), or if NZRU sends players to clubs. Perhaps if Othani or Nick, or one of our resident Kiwi Roarers are out there somewhere they can confirm or debunk my understanding..

Worlds Biggest SNK supporter, SNK has put it out there that he wants to play fly half and that he wants to play in Cardiff. If he thought he could crack it for the Wallabies surely he would stay - thus his not "backing himself" and his leaving rather than being pushed. If his trying to negotiate to stay its an ordinary bluff, his clearly holding a pair at best. You mention full backs - Cameron Shepard Adam Ashley Cooper Peter Hynes Lachlan Turner James OConnor Mark Gerrard Mark Mclinden Daniel halngahu Drew Mitchell I think Australia has it covered, none of the above are outstanding I ll admit, but SNK is not likely to stand out above them either. As noted in many other threads regarding SNK, he is a noted non runner, teams defending know that he is not going to run- they cover the pass and the kick. Too predictable!

Ash, the Wallabies top up is not based on how many Super14 games you play. Whether Dunning would be at the Tah's or the Force, you have just named half a dozen players that would get a Wallaby jersey over Dunning. The ARU wouldn't want to pay for a 7th string prop........ Blackmail - unfair threatening of somebody, as a way of achieving a result. Forcing someone to uproot his family, or you are taking money off him doesn't seem fair. Shall we agree to disagree.....

Andys/Andystath I'm not arguing that Saracens model is a good approach either - in my view that's doomed to failure too before it even gets started. In some ways it's a variation of London-Irish or London Scottish clubs. And look where they are now. One is in the nether regions of the English league system, the other successful (somewhat) but has been changed completely, with a whole influx of foreign players and some ex-pats that have very little to do with the club roots as an Irish club enclave for players in the UK. Maybe Saracens should change to London Saffas? It would be novel at least. However, I never said that you should be aspiring to a NH model at all. I just questioned the wisdom of hothousing artificial franchises willy-nilly without first making sure that they can have deep enough roots, or that they can grow them over time. And if you have limited resources to ensure they grow - which you do - then at the very least the focus should be on ensuring that your current ones are stable before you start adding new ones. There's a lot going for franchise system, but is has its drawbacks as well. Not everything is a NH conspiracy.

Sin-ick, how would it be blackmail? The Tahs have 4 props, there's no way all four can play enough top level rugby in one S14 season for such a technical position year after year. It's natural that one would lose his Wallaby contract, and be left with the choice to go elsewhere to retain it; take the base franchise pay packet and hope for more game time to earn back the top up; or run off overseas. Let's take the scenario that, say, the Tahs had no injuries to their props this year. Baxter and Robinson are the first choice bookends. The Tahs decided that Kepu gets the usual bench spot for experience. Dunning gets just a few games where he starts, and gets just a couple more off the bench. Shepardson and Holmes, for example, have very good years. Now, are if you were the ARU would you continue to give the 31 year old Dunning his Wallaby top up if he stays at the Tahs and gets little game again time next year? It's not rocket science. If Dunning and Kepu had not sustained their unfortunate injuries, the smart money would've been on NSW losing one of Dunning, Robinson, Baxter or Kepu within the next two years anyway, especially with the very talented young Dan Palmer coming through the ranks. And you can bet that the Tahs would not be willing to lose Robinson or Kepu. I hardly doubt the ARU would tolerate one franchise hoarding Wallaby players to the extent that players with Wallaby top ups can't make the regular match day 22. Look at the ARU's knee jerk reaction in regards to suggesting a draft at the exodus of Force players.

Hightower, your comment about SNK not backing himself and let him leave is b*llsh&t. Since when was Australian Rugby in a position to let talented young players leave our shores at just 24. I was disappointed to hear he is leaving. The guy is talented and his best Rugby will not be seen here if he is leaving. We are happy to bring in some average NZ and SA players into our Super teams yet your happy for SNK to leave ??. Let's look at our fullback stocks in Australian rugby at the moment. Gerard - Brumbies, McLinden - Reds, SNK - Tahs and Drew Mitchell - Force. Gerard has started well but is he a winger or fullback, likewise Mitchell. McLinden is getting his toes wet in Rugby and then there is SNK. There doesn't appear to be a genuine fullback playing in any of our Super Teams at the moment.

Ash, Not paying a player because he doesn't play for a team the ARU wants him to is blackmail........ I had to sit back and watch my Tah's for years with no 5/8 while the Brumbies ran around with the two best 5/8 in Australia.

Pothale hows the game going to grow nationally if you 'damn those artificial franchises',both Perth and Melbourne have grassroot competitions in place.If anything bring in a 5th Australian team based in Melbourne,stock it with islanders or top quality players from Argentina and the surplus from the other academies and grow the game not only in Australia but the Southern Hemiphere.

Maybe you are right Spiro - but perhaps instead the Force should make Beale an "offer he can't refuse" and the Tahs can keep SNK, being as he is too good to waste. And Pothale, yes, damn those artificial franchises. We should be aspiring to the NH model, growing some natural clubs like Saracens and then sell them wholesale to foreigners. After all, there is only one sensible way to do these things...

In regards to those like el capitan who feel sorry for SNK, and those who think he's justified leaving to be a 5/8, have a look at his early choice. He looked good at the Brumbies when he started, stepping into an experienced and quality backline and performing well, including standing in for an injured Larkham. But instead of having the patience to play behind some of the best players this country has produced, a situation that would have probably seen him as the Brumbies starting 5/8 as soon as Larkers left, he acted arrogantly, assuming he was better than that and CHOSE to move to the Tahs. Serves him right that he now finds himself behind a rugby pin up boy (for feelgood reasons rather than talent) and still stuck at fullback. I doubt any Brumbies players would have pushed him in the back for having a go, its just that he couldn't wait for his time.

I can see the point of a player wanting to play in a certain position, yet not getting the game time there, so he is unhappy. I am not a Sam two dads fan, however, in watching him play 5/8, he goes OK, and maybe could go better. There is nothing worse than being in a position you don't want to play, except maybe being a utility and never being able to secure the one position. He is very much in the mould of Larkham, in shape, and rugby style. he ghosts a bit, then takes the line on, he has a good ball on him etc. Probably a better kicking game than Larkham too. I don't like our players going overseas, and if the force need a 5/8, it makes sense, but whether SNK is the man for them is another story I guess.