Beautiful Barcelona the best team in Europe

Of course, you can bend anything to support an agenda. The stench of arrogance emitting from London won't go away will it? ;) Never mind, it will be put out before the CL final...

A quote from Thierry Henry (some time after he had joined Barcelona and was playing in La Liga): "'It's no surprise that three English teams are in the last four again,' said Henry. 'All the time when I was in England I said it was the best league in the world and I'm certainly not going to change my mind now. But it's not just the money, it's pleasant to watch. 'I watched the three Arsenal- Liverpool games and the pace was just ridiculous. That was English football at its best. And all around the world, people will have been talking about it. Certainly, everyone was talking about it here." Easily a better player than Torres, having played at top clubs in both competitions, I think Henry is on to something there. Of course, my friend Kaka and I are already on the same page!

Vicentin True in many ways your post some time back about where Australia takes it's world view from... outside US / England / Canada / NZ ... you have a point ... but we are getting much better at understanding Asian culture and it's football helping a lot here ... but a fair point you have... having said that we are not alone in that aspect of national life ...

The quality of any league is bound to fluctuate every year. But I've no doubt the quality of entertainment served up in all leagues today pales to a generation ago.

Kaka has never played in England. He has played against other English sides in the Champions League and I have no doubt he thinks that the 4 english teams there are the most difficult teams in the Champions League. I don't think anyone can objectively claim otherwise that the top 4 in England is better then the top 4 in any other league in the World. Their recent performance in the champions league pretty much proves that. No doubt the combined Liverpool, Chelsea, Manchester United and Arsenal are strongest in the world. However when you start going on about 5th-20th there's no way you can objectively compare leagues (other then the UEFA cup which by the way English teams have done poorly. people may point out that the Spanish teams got knocked out but they have done fairly well in previous season and I think this is just an abberation) as they don't play each other. If you want to quote people perhaps quote Torres who has played in both La Liga and EPL and he said that the top 4 in England is the best in the world but outside the top 4 he believes that the Spanish League is stronger in depth and that the bottom half teams in Spain were superior then the bottom half teams in England.

The IFFHS ranking is described as follows: "The classification of the best leagues of the world is made objectively without any outside influence of any sort. We follow the criteria that the level of performance of a league is reflected by the best classified teams of that league who in turn usually represent their country in international club competitions. If one looks at the football power-houses of the world, one notices that regularly 4 or 5 clubs of their leagues are always competing in continental competitions. By adding the points won in all competitions by the five best placed clubs of each league, we have the points for the country which in turn helps to establish a fair classification. It is important to note that only the yearly classification is representative, since all competitions move along the whole season and over twelve months, we have an objective view of the best. This system has been used since 1991, and it is recognized today as the most precise in rating the leagues of the world." Merely reinforces what my good buddy Kaka and I know - that the EPL is the best league in the world at present - objectively, dispassionately, and factually.

Vicentin, I feel your pain

Slippery Jim quotes statistics as if they are mantra, when they are often misleading and unduly influence public opinion. But how can anyone criticise the English game when the Italian game has been plagued, for years, by match-fixing scandals and more recently the spectre of crowd violence and racism? Italians, by far, are never any good at hiding their ugly prejudices- except they are never, ever punished. Of course, you have to be working-class, British and male to be eligible for vilification charges don't you???

Come on SJ you're not that naive - statement of fact! He may have meant it, but maybe he didn't.... - why would he burn his bridges? He's also a big name brand in his own right and as a "face" for Adidas. He's also very polite, well-educated and a natural diplomat. By the way, Torres during the week said he'd like to play in Serie A (and the Bundesliga for that matter) one day - something about playing in the all the big European Leagues. I didn't read anything into it, and I don't think you should read too much into many of the similar statements made by footballers every week of the year - half of them are sales pitches that often occur when things aren't going so good at their club or their contract needs renewing etc. You know it is so! Bloody Lazio - looks like Fiorentina or Genoa will be the fourth Italian team this year - oh wow, a different team ....

Tony Yeboah, you're still way off, I'm afraid, whether it be the 'top 3' or top four, unless you include Blackburn as one of the big four lol! Vicentin, Kaka also said, right after saying the EPL was the best in the world: "it would be great to play in Premier League". I'm not sure how you can argue with the 2009 IFFHS ranking. Objectively, I mean, as I realise personal taste has a part to play...

Ron Atkinson's Aston Villa side ran Man Utd close in 92/93 when Yorke and Bosnich were only just starting out. They were a side that had some excellent footballers and played attractive, attacking football as it should be played. Footballers (not athletes) like Paul McGrath, Ray Houghton, Steve Staunton, Dean Saunders, Garry Parker (a wonderfully cultured playmaker who was disgracefully never capped for England)- they were a better side to watch than United, or Arsenal, or Liverpool at the time.

Thanks for the update on the statistics Slippery Jim, but just to say that i was actually right on what i said, Now, to talk of competiveness, only Leeds United once, and the great Newcastle United team of the late 90’s twice, are the only two teams to break into the top 3 of the premier league in the last 15 years (apart from the big 4). That is a un-competitive league. I was only referring to the top 3 teams. You can certainly question my choice of parameters and selectiveness in my use of statistics, but why let a silly little like facts get in the way of a good argument! I think that it has been misconstrued as saying that the EPL is not the best league. That is not the case at all, i agree that at the moment and for the last few years, it certainly has been the best league in the world. I agree with Vicentin though that it is most defentively an uncompetitive league. Maybe not as uncompetitive as say the French League in terms of potential winners but there is definately the top 4 teams and the rest in the EPL. Cheers

West Brom won the Championship playing some of the best football I've ever seen at that level. But they failed to replace Phillips and Gera, and the board has failed to back Mowbray. That's why they've struggled despite still playing the ball on the ground game I want to see.

SJ - I not putting up holeproof arguments but largely subjective opinions and I've been clear in that . I mean half of those people you quoted have a very subjective interest in saying those things too - be it diplomacy or self-interest (goes both ways too). There are plenty of players around the world who also prefer - on grounds other than solely financial to go to Italy, Spain, Germany etc including Kaka himself who has not thus far been tempted to leave. Ronaldo on the other hand continually talks about wanting to go to Real, Riberry talks about wanting to go to Barcelona, Diego is apparently in negotiations with Juve etc despite plenty of attractive offers from the UK - are they afraid to test themselves against the best? I am not a statistician nor am I a slave to them - you know the saying about statistics. I still contend that the quality of much of the football outside of the top half a dozen teams is by and large very poor and to get back to my original point I don't think it is a particularly competitive league. The quality seriously drops after the first half dozen teams - subjective. Back to the game - three goals in first 10 minutes. Two of them to Lazio in the first four, but Roma have been awesome (particularly Totti) since. Fantastic football.

I for one don't care where a player or manager comes from as long as they can do the job they are meant to do. But I will never apologise for the sort of football I want to see played, or for putting an emphasis on skillful players. After all these legendary words are mantra: Brian Clough- "If God wanted football to be played in the air he would've put grass in the sky" Tommy Docherty- "football wasn't meant to be run by linesmen and air traffic control" Mantra, my friends, these words are mantra. And the stench of insufferable arrogance emitted from certain quarters of London is so strong, it can be smelt here.

Interesting thoughts, Vicentin. Well, Anglophobe was a trifle harsh, admittedly. Well, if you won't listen to me, perhaps the likes of Franz Beckenbauer, Sir Alex Ferguson, Ryan Babel, Sven-Goran Eriksson, Patrice Evra, Nico Krancjar, Clichy, Diouf, Gattuso, Arsene Wenger, Corluka, Fabio Capello, Kaka and others can talk some sense into you, since they have all gone on record in the last two or three years as saying the English Premier League is the best league in the world. Kaka, for instance, said six months ago: "It is a very tough championship with a lot of big players and a lot of big teams. I think it is the best championship in the world" Not to mention the IFFHS (International Federation of Football History and Statistics) who named it the best league in the world for the second year running: The IFFHS Top 10 1. Barclay’s Premier League (England) 2. Serie A (Italy) 3. Primera Division Argentina 4. La Liga BBVA (Spain) 5. Bundesliga (Germany) 6. Ligue 1 (France) 7. Brasileiro Serie A (Brazil) 8. Primera Division de Mexico 9. Liga Sagres (Portugal) 10. Ukraine Premier League

Thought I'd best drop in again.... Anglophobe? SJ, I'll have you know that I'm quite an anglophile in fact it's just that it doesn't extend to all the hype I hear people gush about the superiority (as a whole of the) premier league. A few good teams who play good football (and I generally don't even include Liverpool in this description) propping up a bunch of teams with a few talented individuals and a lot players who run around a lot and kick people. As I've stated on other blogs I think that the "big four" have struck on a great formula for Europe with quality (techically proficient) European and South America players who've learnt to play (and cope) at the sort of speed and intensity of the premier league. Most of these teams have a smattering of English/British players to transfer the speed and mentality of the domestic game into a slower European setting. I also don't think this advantage is going to last for that long as the major players from the other leagues will adapt quickly and they'll have local players with a technical advantage over the English/Brits in the PL teams. I'm ambivalent about the 6 + 5 rule but I notice that the PL is particularly against it because it knows it doesn't have enough domestic players to keep their best teams operating at their current level (perhaps Man U would be less affected) I make no apologies for enjoying football of a less "agricultural" variety - and therefore enjoying other leagues - Italian, Spanish, German, hell even Turkish and Japanese more than I'd ever enjoy watching MOST mid-table premier league games. This is one of the fantastic things about the web - I can watch football from anywhere - and regularly do. Going slightly off track but one of my gripes with Australian society, media and academia is that generally speaking if it didn't happen in an English speaking country it didn't happen at all. I regularly listen to ABC Radio National and News Radio - the quality end of the radio spectrum, and ... 24 times out of 25 the economic analysis, political analysis, the parenting model or some other community or social phenomenon study will be from either the UK, US, Canada or even NZ. Suggests to me that many people don't think that we as a nation can learn anything from a non-English speaking country, or can't be arsed to translate anything - how arrogant is that? Sadly, I think a lot of people think the EPL is the greatest League for exactly the same reason - because they've been told it is. I guess because it take a bit more effort to follow or find out anything about other football cultures some can't be bothered and therefore EPL must be better. Actually it seriously annoys me that (until recently but maybe it is still happening) News Radio on Sundays does the scores for every one of the English and Scottish Leagues. I don't get it. Ok, Rome derby is on in about 20 minutes. Happy Easter everyone - Buona Pasqua

Your right alan... Barca are up there for the best in the world especially atm they are playing such good football... 4-0 against one of if not the strongest German football team isnt a fluke

Barca are most certainly playing the most attractive/attacking football in Europe (if not the world). However, I fear that should that come up against a well marshalled English clubs defence and midfield they could become unstuck/stiffled.

By the way, Tony, you are way off with your top four information. Top four in the EPL included: 92/93: Aston Villa, Norwich, Blackburn 93/94: Blackburn, Newcastle 94/95: Blackburn (winners), Nottingham Forrest 95/96: Newcastle, Aston Villa 96/97: Newcastle 98/99: Leeds 99/00: Leeds 00/01: Leeds 01/02: Newcastle 02/03: Newcastle 04/05: Everton