The Waratahs' strategy is flawed

LAS, Waldrom is a good call. I forgot about him, Gerrard has been a lot more reliable this year also. Who are the Steyn boys, btw? Masaga has scored some good tries but it took him a few games. That doesn't detract from his ability/record but he does have the fortune of playing with perhaps two of the best back three players in the entire game.

PastHisBest, I recognise your point and I can't confirm either way. A good player like Benn Robinson is managing to stand out in a top four team and a player like Vermaak is managing to stand out in a poor team. A good 'team' player - i.e. you know the sort, not of test standard but loved by the fans, Will Caldwell, for example - will still stand out in a very good team if does his duties well. Perhaps the Lions players would stand out even more if surrounded by better players. perhaps not?! The key for me is that a player has a great work ethic and does the basics well. The rest inevitably follows. Re: the Waratahs, IMO Robinson has been the standout performer. Waugh is, ironically, PastHisBest, and Burgess and Turner have potential, no more. I understand that the backs aren't the focal point of the team but that is the case with other teams like the Bulls, for example. and yet look at Olivier. Until Turner scores tries with little ball like Vainikolo, and until Burgess is a consistently good scrum-half, then I wouldn't look at them twice. Potential is a dangerous concept.

>>PasthisBest, whom are these quality individuals? Robinson Waugh Burgess Turner ...and some kids that could be quality but it's hard to know with the way the team is playing.

Wow Knives - 3 players from the Lions? Does this go to show that good players stand out in a poor team, or that in winning teams you don't require players to stand out if your playing as a team?

Apart from all the 'great' Waratahs, Diplomatic? Hard to say really, there hasn't been any performers who have either played all games or been that good in all of them. Some have been very good and then injured, and vice versa. However, standout players for me have been - and in no particular order: Benn Robinson, David Pocock, Matt Giteau, Wynand Olivier, Jano Vermaak, Jacques Fourie, Clint Newland, Adam Thomson, Bakkies Botha, Brendon Leonard, Rory Kockott, Nathan Sharpe, Stefan Terblanche, Sitivini Sivivatu, Casey Laulala, Louis Ludik.

I am afraid that I am going to have to grit my teeth and agree with a northern hemisphere contributor because he is, unfortunately, correct. That said, I understand LAS's point but I think it should be phrased somewhat differently. Knives Out said "speaking about how great the Waratahs backs are. Newsflash: they’re not. The backline is confused and erratic, and whilst the forwards may dominate some areas of the game they are also erratic, hence their breakdown and occasional lineout struggles". This is unfortunately correct. As tio the backs, I would say that there is some great POTENTIAL there, but it has not been harnessed by the players or by the coaching staff properly. On the other hand we have some clear journeyman players. This is not necessarily a problem. No team can have 7 Dan Carter's in the backline so there will always be some middling players needed to make up the roster and these players can be valuable even if necer destined for higher honours (Wallabies/All Blacks/Springsboks) but the more talented players around them need to play up to their potential and drag the rest of the team up, not down to the level of the lowest common denominator. However whether it is the boardroom politics, the coaching or the lack of application of the individuals or some combination of all of these, the Tahs backline is playing under its potential. The forwards are playing much closer to their potential. The scrummaging is going well, the lineout is usually solid but with the occasional patch of poor coordination but the breakdown is still a work in progress. Much like the Wallaby performance in the RWC07 QF when England blew us away at the breakdown and won the match, the Tahs have an occasional tendancy to lose focus and not compete for the ball. Knives Out said that Hickey "has taken a team of mediocre individuals to a top four berth". I would say he has taken a team of quite good potential but lacklustre application to a top four berth. The question is, what is the cause of the lack of application and what is the solution? OJ in another thread pointed out that the Tahs (and other Australian provinces) only have a limited time together as there is no structure between club and Super rugby that maintains team cohesion. When the Super season ends, the players all go in different directions whether to club rugby or on to representative training. The Tahs training structure only lasts for a relatively limited window. This may be a big part of the problem and a national provincial competition seems the obvious answer.

Knives,. ‘please, could you share with the assembled masses who would make your best S14 team form the current playing teams. I don’t follow?" All that I was saying is that if you had to compile a composite team and you could choose from any of the current S14 players who would be in your dream team?

'please, could you share with the assembled masses who would make your best S14 team form the current playing teams.' I don't follow? a and b) The Sharks. Their away form has been highly impressive. However when it comes to knockout rugby who could discount the Chiefs? They have some of the worlds best players and of the current top 4 they are the only side I could foresee beating the Sharks in a knockout match, but the intelligent punter would still have to back the Sharks. They have the best all round game.

Knives, putting all your condescending comments to the side for the moment, (condescending comments please move to the side,... that’s right, stand next to ego,....what’s that you say?,.. not enough room,...oh dear that’s all the room we have....), please, could you share with the assembled masses who would make your best S14 team form the current playing teams. And secondly who do you rate as (a) The "best performing team in your opinion (ladder points not necessarily relevant), and (b) The team likely to win the S14 title.

You two must be related.

Congratulations on wasting your time, Flity. That's time you'll never get back. You clearly don't comprehend my argument hence this random comment: "So just except that you hate the Tahs and that the Blues are bellow the Tahs." I literally have no clue what on earth you're talking about, and as for your great analysis of the individual Waratahs players, good for you, and good luck with the ELVs too. -- PasthisBest, whom are these quality individuals?

Flity I am also sometimes at fault. Good to see true blue TAH loyal to their team. They must win on Saturday.

Oh Knives Out, why do you even bother putting forth your argument over and over again when we all know that it is poorly put-forth and the only reason that you write these articles is to put down the Waratahs. Not every team is a Fantasy team, that’s just not going to happen, but if you’re so critical about the Waratahs note this: Luke Burgus: Wallaby scrumhalf Kurtly Beal: Captain of Australian school boys and has potential to be a great player Lote Tuqiri: Wallaby player and excellent attacker and defender. Tom Carter: Great all-round player Rob Horne: Excellent talker- has only missed 5% of tackles Lachie Turner: Wallaby player, great speed SNK: Wallaby player and can play well anywhere in the backs Daniel Hal: Potential to be a great player Timana Tahu: Wallaby player and potential to be great To put it simply I’d say that is a pretty good back line. To be fair they haven’t gelled perfectly yet but Hickey did say to expect the great things to happen later in the year. I’d say that’s a pretty good unit. So just except that you hate the Tahs and that the Blues are bellow the Tahs. Oh and for that whole, the game has changed since your time... your best days were in 2002, not just the All Blacks have changed since then but the game. There is a lot less of “give it to the thick prop and hope for the best” but the ELV’s have made a faster flowing, give it to the backs type of game, a game which in time will make the Waratahs’ backline extremely good.

Knives, you are too harsh with "...he has taken a team of mediocre individuals...". The team may indeed be playing mediocre rugby, but there are some quality individuals.

Ah, 1965, you're evidently from the Spiro Zavos school of rugby. School's out, Diplomatic Immunity. It's a different game now. "This year there has been no team that has dominated in all aspects" That may or may not be true, but there have been many teams with far better functioning units. The Chiefs back three, for example, the Cheetahs back row, the Bulls collective breakdown work.. and so forth. There is not one thing that the Waratahs do that they are the best at in Super rugby. "There is no team in the comp, irrespective of your claims, that can claim to be dominating in all facets" I didn't make that claim. That's why my argument revolves around the word 'unit'. I'm not anti-Waratah. Franky, I couldn't give a kibbutz about NSW rugby. However, LAS, dear as he is, spends most of his Roar time speaking about how great the Waratahs backs are. Newsflash: they're not. The backline is confused and erratic, and whilst the forwards may dominate some areas of the game they are also erratic, hence their breakdown and occasional lineout struggles. I'm no fan of Hickey but he has taken a team of mediocre individuals to a top four berth. The average NSW fan seems to have wildly unrealistic expectations of such an average pool of talent. There is not one world class individual in the Waratahs ranks and I am only balancing out this melodramatic, pantomine ire.

Knives Out, well done, (sound of lone person slowly clapping), well you are nothing if not consistent. Consistently arrogant that is in the delivery of your anti Waratahs rant. Just a couple of points. No I am not new to the game, in fact I tied my first boots on back in 1965, yes that is some time ago, but time plenty to get an understanding of the game and all the various nuances of the game. And over that time the game has evolved and will continue to evolve. This year there has been no team that has dominated in all aspects, and your comment regarding the fact that there are "countless more talented individuals peppered throughout the Super tournament" would seem to be made quite blinkered to the exclusion of the Waratahs. At no point has anyone stated that the Waratahs are the superior team in the comp with all facets firing. But what is being said is that the team has a LOT of talent but has failed to get them all firing at the same time, however in modern game that is dominated by statistical analysis they have a defensive record that would be envied by most in the comp. Yes before you say it, their attacking stat leaves a lot to be desired, and it is no secret that all Waratahs supporters are pulling their hair out and wondering why they won’t spin it wide more frequently, because irrespective of your comments they have a quality backline that is grossly under utilised. There is no team in the comp, irrespective of your claims, that can claim to be dominating in all facets. However a game, and a team, is the sum of the parts. And it’s the sum of the parts that has put the Waratahs into 4th spot albeit in a tightly bunched comp. All that is asked of you Knives Out is to show some balance in your commentary. I have no intention of countering your one line board brush analysis of the various units of the Waratahs because it just gets into a discussion caught up in semantics, ( one possibly your ego will refuse to let you loose). But why don’t you try this for a change. Firstly, try and find some substitute word or phrase for the word unbalanced, (used 5 times in your post), because its one of those words that sound incisive but fail to advance your argument through developing the point. And mate, take a chill pill, admit you are anti-Waratah, and try to put some proper perspective into your post. Do this and we can all take your argument more seriously.

Diplomatic Immunity, is this rugby by numbers? Are you new to the game? I measure those comments on empirical analysis, understanding rugby union and simply watching games. The Waratahs are a collection of mediocre to good individuals and that is why Palmer, Caldwell, Mowen, Halangahu, Carter or SNK will never be Wallaby stalwarts. I could spend a lengthy amount of time detailing why the Waratahs lack balance and don't have good units, so I'll keep it brief. It's abundantly clear to anybody but the most arrogant/ignorant Waratahs fan that there are countless more talented individuals peppered throughout the Super tournament. It really does go without saying. Anyhow: The front row is unbalanced because TPN is an erratic thrower. The scrummaging is good but the tight five is not dominating the breakdown. The second row is unbalanced because it struggles at the breakdown and the lineout is dependent upon TPN. The back row is unbalanced because Waugh is getting smashed at the breakdown (tight five not helping him). Further he is not a lineout option and Palu is not trucking enough ball up. Burgess and Halangahu are flaky as a pair. Burgess does not mix his options well enough and his passing is hit and miss. Halangahu is simply a journeyman. The centres are unbalanced because Carter is not a particualryl skillful kicker, which undermines the tactical game that Hickey is currently employing. Also, how many breaks do Carter and Horne make? Why do they make so few breaks? The back three have no relationship whatsoever and SNK is one of the most inconsistent players I have seen. Simply put, there is not one unit that is the best at what it does in Super rugby. Pretty obvious really. -- LAS, and I thought that would would have gone straight over your head, very good cultural knowledge. The 1991 WC is dusputable because there are so many varied accounts from the players involved of whether they were actually 'changed' their style. Fair enough the one game in 1995, but that doesn't constitute 30 years of broken promises.