Reds speculation set to affect Elsom bid

Great news about Vickerman. Greg, send that letter.

CHRIS,i hear your passion and frustration and i know you are right.too much interference by aru pushing selfish interests.centralisation works if you have the benevolent dictator with the utilitarian philosophy;send the aru stooges back to sydney and let qru get back to basics

KO - thanks for the scoop on Imanol's site - faaaaaarck.

Nuciofora has got it wrong and his condescencion only makes things worse. 175k actually is not a lot of money when you are supporting an extended family and are one tackle away from losing that earning power forever. But that's not the point: the point is that the money isn't available bc the ARU are paying some blokes more than they should. Worse, the blokes in question are not going to help the Wallabies win the world cup as much as MMM and Ione. Australia rugby does not have the playing stocks to be sentimental and they can't afford to be incompetant. The current approach to rugby salaries is both. Bottom line: Ione and MMM would be in our strongest XV in 2011 and Lote and Waugh will not: their salaries should bloody well reflect that!

OME, that's what I thought. A year out, then a year of GP and HC rugby, and then back to Australia for the WC. If you thought Reihana's website was bad then try Imanol Harinordoquy's. I was left speechless. He has his own clothing line with the brand being a 'clever' use of his initials. Too much time methinks.

Spiro or Jim, please take up the challenge of trying understand and articulate just what has gone wrong at the QRU? It needs to see the light of day.

KO - that is a massive story about Vickerman. Is it too much of a stretch to think he might be setting himself up for a return to Aus in time for 2011?? Hopefully the saints are paying him an absolute motza and he is looking to cash in and then come home (well his adopted home.) And on another note, I just did a bit of a surf of the Northampton web site and stumbled upon Bruce Reihana's very own web site......what the?

maxxy,you make a compelling case with fred and reds fan,and as i read it becomes plain there is a terrible odour coming from this organisation.they do not appear to be quick-witted on or off the field;they get outthought and outfought dont they. some players play for themselves and clearly they have counterparts in administration.surely they could not sabotage the reds more if they tried.the trouble appears that most have egg over their face and feel vulnerable casting the first stone.courage can be a lonely word ,cant it?

Incidentally, Dan Vickermann has signed a one year contract with Northampton Saints.

Lion red & Maxxy - thanks for those posts - some excellent thoughts - I now am starting to make sense of the stories coming out of the ARU Bunker I hope they realise the treacherous path they're heading down and turn the bost around before it runs aground Fingers crossed lads

JAMES MORTIMER, YES the bulk of the money does come from the aru and yes the bulk of the reds staff are aru stooges my stance has been consistent for many moons now james and you of course are correct. and historically behind the scenes when qru faltered it was high profile nsw people who pulled the strings as their puppets floundered. qru leaders have been duped with spurious tradeoffs.they have been used.

I think we've established that Rupert Murdoch's lawyers don't read this website, otherwise they would probably have had it shut down by now, given the posting of Wayne Smith's article by retiredrucker (copyright, anyone?). Somenone way back yonder made the point that anyone willing to pay McMeniman millions has more money than sense, because he's injured all the time. Exactly my thought, Oscar. (Incidentally, Ioane is not that much better in this regard.) Good heavens, I just looked and found it was hammer who made that comment about McMeniman ... the same hammer who wrote the other day that my comments are stupid. Does that mean I've proven that hammer himself is ... ? On a serious note, maybe the following angle should be put to Elsom: "Rocky, come to Queensland and we will build a new team around you. You're a legend now, and you will attract lots of talented young players to play in the maroon. How cool will that be? Sure, it will take a few years for the team to get good, but you've drunk from the Heineken Cup now, so surely you can take a few years of mediocre results. That won't compromise your Wallaby prospects, because obviously you'll always be a first pick. Look at how the Force built an excellent team around Giteau and Sharpe. Wouldn't you like that to happen to you? (with Berrick calling the shots in the backs). And we'll go one better than the Force and actually see the job through to completion." Wouldn't Elsom take such a proposal seriously?

Tahsfan-brumbieshater, Is it little wonder that so many players from NSW have played for the brumbies over the years. Only one year prior to the start of super 12 rugby (1996) the ACT kookaburra's had played just one year in the NSW club competition. Prior to this they had a 4 team first division comp. The stocks were not great at the time and they needed some support from a stronger player base to sustain them. I am assuming that this is the reason why the ARU chose the ACT as the base for the third Australian team. Since then the brumbies have produced home grown talent on a very regular basis. This is one of the reasons that rugby has grown in numbers in the ACT. If we look at the players list from this years Brumbies squad, 10 players were born or raised or schooled in canberra. A further three players were picked up and developed through the Brumbies junior academy. These players came from Melbourne, country NSW and NZ. The players include Ben Alexander, Huia Edmonds, Nic Henderson, Peter Kimlin, Christian Lealifano, Julian Salvi, Guy Shepherdson, Tyrone Smith and John Ulugia. If we then exclude a couple of long term Brumbies such as George Smith, Mortlock and Rathbone, you can not tell me that the Brumbies develop non of their own playing stocks. This is about half of the current squad. Stephen Moore only announced his move after the reds signed Saia Faingaa. I think that the Brumbies produce plenty of home grown talent. If NSW had a junior and school development system as good as QLD does then maybe the waratahs would have won some comps and more of those sydnysiders would be wearing tahs jumpers instead.

Folks - Elsom is going home to Aus. He's already said it. And he wants to play in WC '11. And he'd like to go back to Ireland again at some point. What's the fuss?

Lads, The bulk of elite players money comes from the ARU, not the QRU. The finger needs to be pointed at nucifora and o'neill.

GARY,LETS HOPE the right question(s) in an evaluation process dont get the denial and rationalisation combo frequently resorted to at the qru;nothing short of heads rolling will satisfy me starting with high performance management(what a misnomer) and reds management;send those two incompetents back to sydney;next the coaches need more than anecdotes and platitudes spouted by mooney(who has been highly critical of past regimes).mooney has been there 4 years now and tomorrow ,tomorrow has a hypercritical tone to it nothing short of a cleanout with some straight talking will suffice,,otherwise this great rugby nursery will go elsewhere. time for some strong leadership from the qru board.

A few points regarding the Reds 1. I think it is a bit harsh to be critical of Digby for going overseas for a guaranteed $1.1Mill when he could be injured in the first game of Super rugby next year and only get $170,000. I love Australia and would have done almost anything to play for the Wallabies but $1.1M would convince most people who have already played for the country to go somewhere else. Also he can return after setting himself up for life and should still be in his prime. 2. It is very naive to think Mooney doesn't have a say in recruitment. It is his team and the buck should stop with him. He has been in the role for 2 years so he should be starting to get the squad together that he wants. Lots of his U19 World Champ team are in the squad now. I don't think that is a coincidence. 3. Things changed dramatically for the Reds when the chose to get rid of McBain. He was a good coach who had the team in the top half of the table. He was forced out so that Andrew Slack could give coaching a try, never having coached before. Then Miller stood down as CEO to become coach because Slack didn't like being a coach. 2 years of that then a year of Eddie and Mooney is given a go. Finally we get a proper coach on the way up. The unfortunate thing is that the 4 years before have made his position a poisoned challis. 4. You can't say that the QRU talent ID programs are not working. All of the players mentioned above as escaping the Reds played U15, U16 and Schoolboy rugby for QLD. The Red thought these players would stay around because they would want to play for the Reds, much the same way of thinking the ARU currently have. Well they didn't. They wanted to play at the best level that they could and for most the opportunities came elsewhere.

Tahsfan-brumbieshater....there is a reason you find so many Brumbies fans living in Sydney .........have you ever experienced a Canberra winter!!LOL. Some of us even live on the Central Coast....see we are everywhere!! Also to be really pedantic the Brumbies are the team from the ACT and Southern NSW Rugby Union. If you check a map of NSW you will see that Sydney is actually in the Southern half of the state, so maybe the Waratah fans in Sydney are out of place LOL!!

Wayne Smith's article does highlight a few hometruths that the ARU will need to take stock of. What is more important earning a living as a professional player or representing your country? Recently the NZRU ran a survey amongst secondary school players asking for their preference - to be an All Black or a professional rugby player. The majority answered to becoming a professional rugby player. Playing professional sport is seen as a more realistic career path than representing your country and for the majority of players that is true. So amongst the next generation of rugby players the allure and strength of wearing their national jersey isn't as powerful as it was 10 or even 5 years ago. That is going to require some sensitivity in negotiating contracts and the NZRU has recognised this fact and isn't using the All Black jersey as the sole carrot for player retention. Ioane's circumstances are no different to what other players are faced with, and the exception that was made for Rocky Elsom only clouds the issue further. The ARU and their respective state bodies will need to demonstrate how much they value their players apart from what they pay them because if a players perception of their worth is only linked to their salary then you'll never be able to retain them. This is why the issue of sabbaticals (or any variation on the theme) may unintentionally create jealousy and resentment among their peers. As has already been mentioned there are many unanswered questions directed at the QRU with regards to how they not only recruit players but also retain them. The signing of Elsom will certainly test the ARU's theory they can sign expat players from overseas clubs to play in Australia. If Leinster can outbid and retain Elsom's services it doesn't offer a lot of hope for signing any top class players for any Australian team or a fifth team. The draft system does work for NZ but then our circumstances are different as we have another level of provincial competition beneath super rugby where players return to play in the ANZPC. Each Super 14 coach names a protected squad of 22 players from within their region and then everyone else is available in the draft. We also have a difference in squad numbers, Kiwi squads number 28 while Aussie teams number 33. The ARU are canvassing a reduction in the squad to 30 players and then freeing more players up for selection for the fifth team in 2011. Here's the link: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25202720-2722,00.html So in NZ last year 30 players new to Super 14 rugby were included among the 140 contracted players. Thirteen had been drafted from other franchises while nine return to the competition after not being selected in 2008 due to unavailability, injury or form.

Jason "and ACT produce(s) no one. What does a backline of Gregan, Larkham, Giteau, O'Connor (Michael), Roff, Campese and Kafer tell you? All home-grown Canberra/ACT products.