Henry is Steyned: the All Blacks need a new coach

but didnt deans hav issues with steve tew personal issues so if that was the case no matter hw many ppl backed deans he wouldnt hav got the job

I think Ivan's missing the point. If you take a liking to a team, well you simply adopt them as a fan. There are many soccer fans I guess sitting in New Zealand as there are in many other parts of the world, who admire, and are fanatical about Brazil. Of course, supporting your country in sporting terms is a reflection of one's patriotism. In my case as a South African, it's not so much as I hate the Boks, I simply love the All Blacks. Remember up until 1994 with our first democratic elections - up until then as a 31 year old person 'of colour I was not allowed to vote - it was extremely difficult, as it was for the majority of us to feel that sense of patriotism. For example, if I would go to an All Black match in the 70's (and even into the eighties) in South Africa, I would have to sit on the stands reserved for 'non-whites' and would have taken a bus to the stadium where seats were also reserved based on the colour of one's skin. Unfortunately I did not attend any AB matches on their tours to SA back then as a pre-teen, did attend provincial cricket matches in PE (to see the likes of Graeme POLLOCK) where I suffered the ignominy of having to sit in stands reserved for so-called "coloureds". Even now many of the 'older generation, still affected by the after-effects of an 'inhumane' system that marginalised the majority of its people back then, it is difficult to be patriotic. The All Blacks should know that thousands of people in South Africa today still pay wholehearted allegiance to the All Blacks. Many of whom identified even more with the players of Maori extraction. I took on the All Blacks as my team as a seven year old child, in 69-70. My father, as were many of his generation. was a huge supporter of the All Blacks that was also a 'snub' to the then apartheid regime. Of course, I was still an innocent child then, but when I was hoisted onto my dad's shoulders to have a view of the All Blacks coming into the arrivals hall at Port Elizabeth Airport, who should my eyes fall on first. None other than the legendary Colin "Pinetree" Meads. There was an immediate connection as I ran towards him for an autograph. Now my dad is a huge Bok fan, but I wouldn't budge as I am a big admirer of the All Blacks' style of play, and I shall remain true to the team until the day I die. I remember watching in 1976 on television (yes tv had just arrived in SA then) Andy Leslie's side to South Africa. Syd Going, Billy Bush, Bryan Williams - what more could a fan of running rugby want? Finally seeing your heroes live on television. Then the 80's there were legends like 'Cowboy Shaw', Murray Mexted, Andy Dalton, Zinzan Brooke, Josh Kronfeld, and the list goes on. Of course we also loved seeing the Boks thrashed because this was a then-apartheid South Africa who marginalised talented sportsmen and women to eventually become the world's sporting pariah. Now in modern SA many players of colour strutting their stuff on the international scene in cricket, rugby, soccer and others, have proven a point. Those before them (including their mums and dads) should never have been denied a chance to demonstrate their patriotism through their sporting talent. Now after that bit of history, let me emphasise I am not a Bok hater, just a huge All Black fan AND WILL ALWAYS BE!

Jerry G - don't disagree with you re burger and Botha - so don't want to revisit that.. The point is that when the Abs loose its the refs fault - no credit is given to a side who played better than them and put them under pressure forcing faults. I have no problems praising the AB's as I think that they are are great side and would actually still consider them to be no.1 based on their performance over the years (not just the last 6 months!). Sadly N Zealanders find this difficult to do - i.e accept or dare to consider that the French or Wallabies or Boks i.e any other side may actually be better than them - The Boks supposedly won the game because the AB's played so badly and had a poor ref. Please try give credit where it is due. I am certainly not saying this is the best team in the world nor am I saying they will win the try nations - not sure where you got that notion from? At this stage any of the three sides can take out the competition and don't write off the wallabies! Yes lets see what happens with the Boks on the road - it may be very different (as history has shown us) an Aussie colleague once said to me said that New Zealanders are very balanced people - they have a chip on both shoulders - Judging by the majority of the comments this appears to be true i.e. are easily aggrieved and have to defend their losses so vigorously finding any excuse (poor reffing and own bad play) that they cannot acknowledge that there can actually be a better team than the AB's. Sport by nature is competitive and will always illicit heated and mostly partisan debate. I however enjoy my sport not only because I want my team to win, but because of its intrinsic nature of what it has to offer - if I see any side, even if it is the opposition performing well, then I can still enjoy that. I am also saying give your own side credit - How many tries did they save - look at the way they defended the try line had some excellent runs, played attacking rugby etc etc. They have been so viciously written off especially by their own supporters - give them a break and wait till the competition is over, the ABs have come back from a a two test loss and won the competition, who says they wont do the same this year? Lastly Remember it is just a game after all. Regards

"This restricted game plan in boxing terms"...................yes you said it! The box kick...........get rid of it. No kicking by the scrum half until he has cleared the ball (should be a rule). Box kicks , up and unders, how boring is the All Blacks game. I think when the Blacks spread the ball they forgot how to catch it. I know the Blacks backs are better than this, hopefully they play a similar style when they meet the Wallabies. Maybe Henry should concentrate on passing and catching practice for the backs and "thou shalt not throw long in the lineout within our 25" written 100 times on the whiteboard for the forwards.

I do get that alot Ivan. You can't choose who you support, the team chooses you :)

As a walla fanatic I'm concerned about their ability to get parity at the breakdown with both the boks and AB's. The preceeding games have exposed a lack of protection of the ball and this is an area the boks are strong at and have become even stronger with Brussow. I am also v.impressed with their kick chase - i don't think I've ever witnessed a better proponent of it than Habana. He also does everything flat out even if it stuffs up occasionally hes having a real go. I hope the Wallas can take a leaf out of his book I feel both NZ and Aus kickchase has been pretty poor lately. If SA can have a player in the mix at every kickoff why can't we?

Pothale Sorry, I think it's the Ireland v Wales game that we missed. :-)

Yes, this is my Country. Im not literally telling you to move warren. its a free world. Im just venting that you live in a country with such a great rugby team and you support our rivals. But to each his own. I doubt though that there are any Kiwi born people living in NZ that support the boks and "hate" the all blacks.

Why should I move Ivan . Is this your country?

I would agree JamesB, for once the blacks are peaking between World Cups. But Generally I wouldnt put any money on teh Blacks not winning the Web Ellis that has for so long eluded them. I predict a NZ vs. SA final in 2011 with NZ winning a thriller. It would be no dishonour to lose a final to NZ in NZ. And no matter what the state of affairs they should remain the bookies favorites throughout their home WC. That said, I would also say that SA have a long way to go before we can boast a proud record like the Kiwis have. I do believe however that SA have now stepped their mark up a notch and that for the first time it's NZ that need to play catchup. I also think that with Deans at the head of a "smart" team like Aus that they too are going to improve vastly as soon as the current crop of yesteryears heroes departs - bar Giteau. It is a shame that all the ELVs were disbanded since watching the S14 was far far more exciting than the current 3N series. Too many pauses, too many penalties... its taken a certain entertainment factor out of the game. But why can't we have both sets of rules in play. That should keep the teams and game more dynamic ? Keep Super14 with ELVs and let us go back to boring rugby with the 3N to prepare us for NH encounters. I must admit that the ELVs did play into NZ and Australias hands considering they have the faster and more mobiles packs around. South Africa have benefited vastly from the return of the old rules, but thats not to say we love them. SA should win in Cape Town, and take at least 1 win from 3 overseas to clinch the 3N. in response to all the negativity around SA's ability to put the Blacks to teh sword, People should remember that the boks have allot of respect for the kiwis, its not built into our DNA to treat a NZ team like that. I do not think that SA would take any pride out of putting 50 on NZ, purely because without a tough old foe, we have no purpose in the game. It sounds like rubbish, but its true. We have never been in that position either, so for us to have the opportunity to put NZ away by some 30 points is not a what we play or aim for, Aus on the other hand... we can think of no greater honour than to put 100 on the aussies, what the psychology of this is, dont ask me - im no Psychologist. I expect the Aussies to come out all guns blazing in Cape Town, and it seems they are the fitter team around, but I expect the grit and determination of teh boks to outweigh the passion and pride of the aussies. Lets just hope Rugby is the winner and we are not subjected to fouled boring footie, for 99% of Saffers would sooner narrowly lose a great game, than win a pathetic boring one.

This may not be a bad thing... for once AB's aren't peaking in between RWC's. Prediction; the AB's will retain the Bledisloe Cup and beat the Boks in NZ, but won't win the Tri-Nations. It will be considered a reasonable return, but not good enough in light of the problems exposed. This is just the position NZ need to be in two years out from RWC 2011. Not that dissimiliar to 1986 come to think of it. This may just be a blessing in disguise.

This is not a great AB's team which makes the Wallabies loss in Auckland all the more frustrating. I am not sure Henry is ready for the chopping block just yet. He did out coach Dingo in Auckland.

Vince... Yeah the headline says it all, its more like a frustrated child having to admit a wrong than a Journo laying praise were its due. Why do you ask? I have been reading the roar for about 3 years now, somewhere along the line it's become a bok punching bag bonanza. Spiro for what ever reasons, rates and numbers or pure distaste for the Boks started these one eyed articles. Like I said don’t know when it started but id like to see one that’s not just targeted at making the rest feel better by labelling SA the one dimensional devils of the rugby world. And yes I do generalise and there are people here with excellent post and knowledge to add but for most of the time these article just fire up the Saffas and die hard bok haters. I don’t know maybe it started after the RWC?

Temba, you are such a whinger...to be fair did you read Spiros "The Springboks and Matfield are number one, OK!"

Sheek, I concur, I have watched the Ella brothers period, Farr-Jones & Campo period, Gregan & Larkham period up to Giteau & Barnes, and now in 2009 I have found Wayne Bennets Dragons a far more entertaining brand of football than the current state of rugby, even with an ageing Wendell Sailor. This is not acceptable, and really it doesn't matter who wins the Tri nations this year if it is this boring.

Springboks are a very good side and a well coached side. They are currently the best side in the World and deserve their number one status. They have great player depth and with the right structure in place will improve and should maintain their momentum. The Wallabies are an improving side and by the end of the Northern Hemphisphere tour I expect and want them to be the team to beat. Again they have good depth in areas they have normaly been deficeint with and Deans is a very good coach and able to place talent into a side when and where needed. You won't have a side coached by deans go backward and stand still. The All Blacks are at this point in time a very hard team to place as not sure if they are rebuilding, redajusting style or just suffering from the injury toll affecting their combinational play. I do feel their selection issues relate to the injuries which has allowed Joe and Hore grace on the positions as has Donald. I still rate the All Blacks in any game they play however the longer they stay out of form and continue to lose confidence the harder it will be for the NZRU not to step in but one good win by them can change all bets. I support the Wallabies through all their encounters but I don't need to bring up past history both with foul play, supporter issues and records last held to argue view points. Any test win is a good win as is any series win or tournament win and hopefully the Wallabies will put themselves in a position to do one or all three by playing to their potential and they will have to as both the Springboks presently and the All Blacks potentialy are superb sides when on song. I enjoy watching the best sides play including the recent Lions series where two quality teams played some of the most exciting rugby I had seen in years.

So let me see if I got this right, not a great team but better than the All Blacks, now, seeing as we exist in the present. That is good enough for me. I mean who cares what they did in 1785. Lions scalp, Webb Ellis, S14 and if all goes to plan 3N not bad collection in the old cabinet for an OK team, when was the last time NZ had those 4? Anyways I had enough of this, its plain and simple sour grapes that some here cannot bring them selfs to except that the Boks are on the up, a great team in the making. It's always combined with "it’s a good team but not great.. blab la Bakkies... Burger...scum"

Broken record Hemjay, *Yawn*... o look the tea lady is here, how exciting.

Loftus another Saffa insinuating things that I never said and also reacting before reading. I'll spell it out for you. 1.In other threads I have congratulated the Boks on their win they were good wins far from great wins. 2. my posts here in this thread are to highlight the gross generalisations of Australasian fans while temba turns a blind eye to the greatest act of foul play by any fan occurred in SA by a SA fan wearing a springbok Jersey. If your going to throw stones remember others will throw them back. 3. The whole dam world knows how bad the All Blacks played, for petes sack an overwhelming majority of Kiwis well everyone except the SA fans here in the roar and around the globe rate this as their worst performance EVER! Another point that Bok fans are missing 5. In relation to point four, the Boks still only scored one very dubious try and didn't look like scoring any more, where as the ABs did but stupid school boy errors let them down or JP Petersons forearm. 6. Once again in direct relation to point 4, the worst game ever it has been dubbed and yet the Boks still only scored 12 points does that not instill doubts into you as a Springbok supporter for their away trip? We all know how bad Springbok teams are on the road. 7. The World should be worried the All Blacks are having a bad year now before a world cup. 8. It's not the loss that irks Kiwis but the manner in which it was lost. 9. As it stands we are still the reigning Trinations Champions and have been for the last four years. The Blacks lost two in a row last year and still went on to win. Springboks a good team yes hardly a great team

Hemjay,you re obviously in a very bad mood today,so I ll try to stay out of your hair?? But thanks for the history lesson.And that s exactly what it is - history.It s always great to come onto this website and see all the kiwi supporters moaning and bitching after a loss.It makes the win so much better.I have many kiwi friends and I must say they are much better losers than some of you lot.Funny that the All Blacks teams from the eighties played a lot like this Springboks team at the moment and they were hailed by the New Zealand public.Now that the shoe is on the other foot you conveniently don t want to recognize it.Cant wait for Saturday - hopefully the Wallabies will give us more of a game!