France’ Sebastien Chabal, right, catches the ball in front of Patricio Albacete, left, in a line out during their international match against Argentina, at the Velodrome Stadium , in Marseille, southern France, Saturday, Nov. 8, 2008. France won 12-6. AP Photo/Claude Paris
The new Super 15 would become home to some of Argentina’s best players if a move to have the Pumas play in an expanded Tri-Nations tournament comes to fruition.
The marquee southern hemisphere competition could be expanded to a Four-Nations from 2012 after governing body SANZAR on Monday “conditionally” invited Argentina to join.
Those conditions include the major sticking point with the Argentines in previous discussions about their involvement – ensuring their best players, the majority of whom play their professional rugby for European clubs, are available.
But SANZAR said that could be overcome by luring Pumas stars to Super rugby, which will expand to 15 teams in 2011 with the inclusion of either Melbourne or South Africa’s Southern Kings.
“The national unions of Australia, New Zealand and South Africa are very keen to actively work with Argentina to place their best players across Super rugby teams in the three countries,” a SANZAR statement said.
Melbourne’s bid had already addressed the reality of the lack of depth in Australian rugby, with officials claiming offshore Australians, Pacific Islanders and rugby league players would help bolster their ranks.
If the Victorians are successful, concessions could mean the move to farm out Argentina’s stars would add another source of playing talent.
SANZAR said the other conditions of Argentina joining, after they finished third at the 2007 World Cup, were the need to finalise a financial model and the agreement of broadcasters.
“SANZAR is in the process of renegotiating its broadcasting contracts and, whilst we have kept our broadcasters fully informed about the discussions with Argentina, we now need to confirm their view on the plan to include Argentina from 2012,” SANZAR chief executive Andy Marinos said.
While the carrot has been dangled in front of the Argentines, they have also been reminded of the massive amount of work it will take to make the more complete southern hemisphere tournament a reality.
Australian Rugby Union boss John O’Neill was cautious in his support.
“Argentina has shown commitment, passion and a work ethic to date that highlights their desire to have the Pumas playing at the highest level possible on a consistent basis,” he said in a statement.
“Australia is excited by the possibility of having the Pumas in a Four Nations Championship.
“It is important therefore, with a conditional invitation on the table, for Argentina to keep moving forward and satisfying the necessary conditions.
” … We need to ensure the same integrity and quality of competition is guaranteed with a move to a Four Nations Championship, and Argentina understands that.
“Australia looks forward to Argentina making further progress in coming months.”
The format for the Four Nations would see the four teams playing on a home and away basis, meaning six matches per team and a total of 12 matches overall.
The tournament would begin in mid-August, following the end of the expanded Super 15 competition.
Working Class Rugger
Guest
Paulo I doubt an Argentine team would compete in the SA Conference. Rather it could be entirely possible that Argentine Super teams would either make up the bedrock of a South American Conference or a greater Americas conference 6 years would be more than enough time to pull it off. Ideally I'd like to see a South American conference. Four Argentine team intially with both Chile asnd Uruguay each having one.
Working Class Rugger
Guest
Paulo Are you Argentinean. If so good to hear from you. I don't see any Argentinean Super Teams playing in either of the soon be to conferences. Though 2015 would be enough time to establish a seperate conference within South America. Say four teams from Argentina, one from Uruguay and one from Chile. This would allow each team to play ten games within a closer proximity to one another. Whilst still able to play the interconference games later. The beauty of this is it wouldn't be the same team visiting every year from outside South America. So alongside the 'derbies' South American teams would always have a changing variety of teams to play.
onside
Guest
The pre match discussion panel covering all FOUR NATIONS matches will be called FOUR PLAY
Paulo Sanchotene
Guest
Actually, "Olé" in today edition talks about an argentine team in S15 in 2015... It doesn't say, but it could be in a SA conference. Why not?
Working Class Rugger
Guest
Ed You're right. I have read vague reference's to the proposed future Americas conference. There is also a muted name. The "Atlanta" conference. Does anyone see the creation of the Americas Rugby Championship and more specifically the four Canadian regional teams as an ideal template fpor any future teams. If this were to happen it would need to be entirely self sustaining as the travel alone would be a killer in Super Rugby. Note: Test matches are entirely different. My money would either be on a 10-12 team conference or two 8 team conferneces. One North and One South. And I have read alot of suggestions on other sites for the new name of the Tri Nations when Argentina is admitted. No one has hit the obvious in my view. Either the Southern Nations or the Southern Cup.
Ed
Guest
There has been alot of talk about an American conference a couple of teams from canada, an american and even uruguay.
Ed
Guest
Yeah but the BA 'absolute/relative' time difference is only 11 hours which doesn't sound as bad. What I mean is they may be 13 hrs behind our time, but at 9.30am in Aus its 8.30pm in BA. Now if it were up to me, I would prefer to watch a live game in BA than one in south-africa. Not a bad wake up call for a sunday. Admittedly, that kind of time difference is a hell of a shock to anybody, even if you are a professional that is some serious jet lag. The flight may be easy, but getting to bed at a decent hour is another thing.
Dave
Guest
I can't see how it would be much tougher than what it is at the moment. They only have to play each other twice. Once in each country. Not too difficult. I do understand about it becoming a drag, but they only have to play six games. 3 at home and 3 away. Its not like the present format of playing each team 3 times. There is no talk of super 15 or 16 playing here in BA. It's just the Pumas.
Invictus
Guest
There has been no discussion of, and no invitation extended to, a S15 side based in Argentina. For Argentina to participate in Super Rugby would require the tournament to transition to a full conference format (this will begin with S15). This would mean Argentina (or South America) would need to field at least 5 teams (possibly more) for it to make up it's own conference. This is quite likely but not in the short term.
Dave
Guest
If you can get to london in less than 13.5 hours then yes it closer. I have never flown to London But i constantly fly with Qantas to BA and that is how long it takes. First class 13.5 hours is nothing! Onside, i am glad that SANZAR don't have your train of thought! How boaring! Travelling the world playing sport no way to live! ha! you make me laugh! If they don't like it they don't have to play the sport, or they can play in a local comp!
onside
Guest
Travelling wears thin ,and wears you out.I just want to point out it is not as glamorous as it looks. Sure, the first couple of times as a single bloke, travelling to places for the first time.But those long plane trips are killers.The match lasts for one hour twenty minutes.Players spend that long at the airport checking in,and then as many hours in the air as they do at training. Damaged muscles do not respond well to long haul flights.Rocky Elsom needed injections in his knee just to get him on the flight from Sydney to Perth for the Boks Test.I am not kidding,this will be a lot tougher gig than most people imagine.
Brett McKay
Expert
Sam, I actually put a link to his news on your "SANZAR needs more Argy-Bargy" piece yesterday - I'm sure they read your draw!!
Working Class Rugger
Guest
Onside Mate, your kidding right. That a hell of a way to live. How many NRL, A League or AFL player's would be able to see cities like BA and Cape Town in the process of playing two games. None. These guys are paid professionals. Not paid princesses. If they are that precious they should get the hell out of Rugby. I'd give a limb to be able in one year travel to NZ, SA, Europe and in the future Argentina whilst actually getting paid. All for playing and training a game that I love. Boys those boys will have it tough.
onside
Guest
I have serious reservations.Argentina is too far away. Time differences (not travelling time) from East Coast of Australia Buenos Aires ..... .minus 13 hours Perth..................... minus 2 hours Johannesburg...... minus 8 hours Auckland .................plus 2 hours London in fact closer to Sydney than Buenos Aires, minus 9 hours Just imagine playing for the Western Force against a team in.Buenos Aires. Briused and sore after a torrid game you are dying to get home for treatment and see the family, because next week you are off to Johannesburg.But first there is this monster plane trip to get home. Are you kidding me.That's no way to live.
Gho
Guest
Brilliant. This opens the way for an expansion to Super 18 with the Southern Kings/Spears in the south African conference, a Buenos Airies side and either another NZ or Aus side (NZ probably wont have enough commercial depth and Aus wont have enough playing depth)
Invictus
Guest
Hear, hear!
Working Class Rugger
Guest
Fanastic news. And richly deserved. The presence of Argetineans in a 4N tournament aswell as Super Rugby will get it a great international flavour. Does anyone see this as a possible precursor to a much greater Super Rugby expansion into the region in the future. First get the national team playing regular high quality Rugby then introduce Proffesional Rugby in the Region with it's own conference. I think SANZAR are looking to get on the good side of someone like ESPN in the region. They have a huge broadcasting presence in South America and could really boost the exposure of the game if they jump on board. Plus it would leave the door open on North America too. Regarding Japan. I still think they are within SANZAR's sights in the medium term. But I can't see them competing outside of some sort of Asian Conference which is certainly not out of the question. Great news alround for Rugby fans. Especially Argentinean. It's actually been a pretty good 6 months for Rugby fans internationally. First Rugby's recommendation for the Olympics. The establishment of the Asian Sevens Series (the first leg in Shanghai was won by Korea beating Japan in the final last weekend), Argentina and hopefully come Oct 16 the Olympics.
Greg
Guest
Great, overdue news. Go the Pumas.
Teo
Guest
I'm not sure what I'm more excited about, seeing the Pumas in a 4 Nations tournament or seeing Rodrigo Roncero and Juan Manuel Leguizamón running around in the Super 15! Needless to say, there is alot of work to do before 2012, but this invitation is surely a huge step.
True Tah
Guest
Nemo thankfully the Reds HAVE taken a game to Townsville in the past, the Waratahs begrudgingly played a game at Homebush last season and will do so again next year, but this is more to do with the fact that they make a guaranteed profit when they do so, as opposed to any idea to spread the game out. I would love it if the Tahs would take a game to Newcastle, Gosford, Penrith, Parramatta or Campbelltown. The counter argument would be that these stadiums cannot accommodate larger crowds, well they can accommodate 20,000, which would be great for games against some of the South African sides and teams like the Highlanders.