It's time to go Wallabies

Great article with some valid points. My only issue....why is this a surprise? Deans coached Canterbury to many titles - true...but he had a team containing at least 7 All Blacks at any one time and, at one stage, contained 14 All Blacks thanks to the hideous bias he and Mitchell showed to their own players while NZ coaches. Anyone remember when the All Blacks played with 18 Cantabs, 2 Aucklanders and a couple of Wellingtonians? If he couldn't win a S14 title with that team, then there would be serious questions asked. Now, when he no longer has a team of stars (because, lets be honest, there are still some holes in that Aussie squad) it becomes apparent that it was not all about Deans, it was all about his players. Having said that, he will make this team the best it can be over time. Whether that 'best' is good enough remains to be seen. I always felt he was being severely over-rated...I'm glad that theory is being tested by the Wallabies and not the ABs.

i think the whole team sucks, esp players like turner & o'connor what the hell happened to Barnes and giteau? sheesh they all sucked...never blame deans as hes a good coach..maybe the players need to play more with pride and not be so damn cocky just cause they wallabies ( it dont mean u becum a wallaby player den u think your the best) psttt bring on new players ..they should play like digby ioane, who strives for the best and also he plays with commitment on the field like he did during the super14 ..if we have players like him then the damn WALLABIES Would be a matach againest the AB..

Best XV if available Aust 2 XV Benn Robinson Pek Cowan Tatafu Polota-Nau Stephen Moore Ben Alexander Al Baxter James Horwill Dan Vickerman Nathan Sharpe Mark Chisholm Rocky Elsom Dean Mumm George Smith David Pocock Wycliff Palu Richard Brown Will Genia Luke Burgess Berrick Barnes Quade Cooper Lachie Turner Drew Mitchell Matt Giteau James O’Connor Stirling Mortlock Rob Horne Adam Ashley-Cooper Peter Hynes Cameron Shepherd Kurtley Beale

I'm as depressed as everyone else but I'd like to make a few points... 1. TPN's throwing was 100% perfect - I kept notes. When Moore came on the lineouts struggled. 2. I thought Alexander got a good lesson but Benn Robbo was perfectly solid on his side. Alexander only really started at tight head this year and until that game has done remarkably well for a rookie, who didn't even play tight head in S14. Alexander is a tough nut too - he, Robbo and TPN have the potential to become world dominators - the best front row we've ever had. Don't despair after one ordinary performance in his rookie year in the position against a very good player. He will come back strong - you watch. 3. Bringing Baxter back has to be a step backwards. Kepu is the obvious one to come back subject to his scrummaging being OK. And we should find out a fair bit this weekend - is Kepu playing 1 or 3? He is a tough nut, but then so is Pek Cowan. Cowan might not quite be there yet, but he has a lot of potential. He is tough around the field, and reminds me of Benn Robbo 2 years back. 4. I am still yet to be convinced about Pocock. The obvious person the forward pack lacked was Phil Waugh, who tends to better against NZ (and specifically McCaw) than Smith. 5. I'm with Bob Dwyer - how can anyone call Richie Brown a better test no.8 than Wycliffe Palu? 6. You can't simply drop the whole forward pack. Some of them really deserve to be there, esp TPN and Benn Robbo 7. Smith was playing no.8. He isn't a no.8 - it's been tried before. Palu is our only test quality one, really. Rocky runs too high and is too easy a target to play no.8.

Count me a fan - when he's on, he's on! All depends how he comes back from Japan, presuming that's where he's at. But he might be getting a bit long in the tooth, and Shep's a younger guy, and a tremendous player when he's switched on. Would love to see the Force's man selected for 2011, being fit and in form that is.

have to say that robinson was not the "worlds best prop" as we were led to believe in the pre game hype. i don't know why the press (is it the press?) does this with a new player. its just setting them up for the fall. they must think we're all idiots foaming at the mouth, and waiting on the next scrap of hype to get us screaming in the streets

'brought back the scrum to parity' No he didn't. I doubt Dean has coached a scrum in his life. Michael Foley improved the scrum. 'blooded some youngsters' And Jones and Connolly didn't?

David, Well written. Agree with most of what you say, can't really add much anymore.

OJ, Sure Deans has made mistakes, no doubt about it. But the problems of the Wallabies & Australian rugby as a whole, go way beyond Robbie Deans.

Good grief you can't be serious. Baxter is a scrum bunny. Mumm has a work ethic reminiscent of an Egyptian mummy. Waugh isn't as good as Smith and Brown is a journeyman. Burgess can't pass ( a required skill for a scrum half apparently). Mitchell is a defensive liability. Beale is nothing but hype - he makes Mitchell look like the Great Wall of China. Elsom is miles ahead of Hodgson in a 100m race. Let the dirt trackers play against Scotland because on form, Ireland will win and England will be a struggle.

mark i understand.look youre feeling a little insecure right now you possibly should get checked for posttraumatic stress disorder and yes i played soccer all my life and i bow to your superior knowledge and im impressed with your playing in 2 countries.. and ill watch out for that bad cattle and you be wary of swine flu .cheer up.mother teresa

MARK you must have been a great player mate .what position did you play mate?

spot on harry ,your onto it

so it must be his delivery perhaps with:these modern man management techniques or maybe he selects the wrong people to do battle;i mean oconnor wouldnt be my first choice except for holding the mascot. so sorry we must agree to disagree you clearly know more first hand info but i deal in patterns and facts like results and ex all blacks for my summation of strengths ,weaknesses and background music,if you are correct when will we have evidence.

No George smith in the team? Elsom on the bench?

I was at a BBQ for the kids yesterday and one of the boys asked the question "how can a Kiwi 'really' not feel when the Kiwi National Anthem is played, and then how can he 'really' belt out our National Anthem"? My response was, it's professional sport and great coaches just want their team to win (et.al. The Wallabies). But it did get me thinking! I like the thread and the various points of view but the fact remains (1) the players were out-played by their opposition (2) the coaches made fundamental errors in judgement by not utilizing their bench. If the 'cattle' is the best we've got at the time, then the likes of Jim Williams (former Wallaby and Assistant Coach) should be able to tell the players like it is ... "belt the sheep #^&*, put your bodies on the line, and bash em" (a good old fashion aussie rev up) ... you think the All Blacks were sitting in their dressing room discussing how they'd play this pattern then that? They were saying "Belt those sheep #&%&, put your bodies on the line, and bash em"! We've lost the Bledisloe Cup, Tri-Nations and only have the wooden spoon to show for it, therefore, using Tokyo as a guage against one of the best teams in the world. My squad/team would be: 1. Robinson 2. Polota-Nau 3. Baxter 4. Horwill 5. Mumm 6. Hodgson 7. Waugh 8. Brown 9. Burgess 10. Barnes 11. Mitchell 12. Giteau 13. Ashley-Cooper 14. Hynes 15. Beale Reserves: 16.Moore 17. Cowan 18. Elsom 19. Pocock 20. Genia 21. Cooper 22. Cross I know a lot of you will complain about 'tries and true' but (1) Baxter is our best THP (unless refereed by cheating SA referees); (2) Phil Waugh needs to be given a start to prove he wants that Wallaby jersey; (3) try a Burgess-Barnes combination (it will give Chris Hickey an insight into next season); (4) KB at FB - let him be either the deer in the headlights or the masters apprentice; (5) Cooper and Cross deserve a place on the bench - hopefully they'd be given some time too! If you rev them up just enough, some of these guys would relish the chance to get a head start on the others for the European tour and, you never know, it might just bring about a turn-around in fortune!

Gerrard surely.

Stillmissit, Dwyer obviously had an eye for talent when he plucked him from whatever grade it was, and yes remember the standoff with Fitzpatrick, and the Coogee boy backed it up. Harry below makes some very valid points - seems the forwards mingling amongst the backs was 'game plan' that went badly askew. We would've done better to take the ABs on - as we did the Boks - through the forwards and contested every breakdown. Last win on AB soil, 2001... long time between drinks. We better get it right next year, or forget any glory come 2011.

Joeb - I remember Kearns when he started in the Wallabies taking over from Tom Lawton (I think). I thought he was a softie and so did the All Blacks until he started to harden up after the 'see you at 2' to Fitzpatrick.

Good points there Harry - agree.