As a retired referee, I am perhaps more critical of the man with the whistle than some. However, when we expect them to now be mindreaders, then I must draw the line.
The contentious issue of the intentional knock-on is the matter to which I am refering. When will logic dictate that if a player is in a position to interrupt a passage of play by whatever means, he will?
In the situation of a player passing a ball to another player, where an opponent can get a hand on it, then perhaps he held the pass too long.
Now, if the ball’s taken cleanly, there may well be an intercept try and the intercepting player’s a hero. If he only gets his fingertips to it then, best case, it may become a knock on.
Worst case, the referee, after looking carefully at the eyes of that player, considering whether the team has pushed the limits somewhat, then quickly reading the player’s mind, may decide that he intentionally tried to intercept that ball, without a hope of getting it, therefore he intentionally knocked it on. What a load of tripe.
Referees have enough on their plate without having to now adjudicate as to what someone was thinking in the split second prior to an incident. To award a penalty, the referee has to be certain beyond reasonable doubt, that the player was merely trying to knock the ball away from a player about to receive it.
This would have to have been the player’s intent from the start. How the heck is the referee to know that?
If a player is in a position to get to the ball, then good on him. If he can only deflect it’s flight, then so be it.
Let’s make it easier for the referee, not have him read minds as well!
MarkR - used to be Mark but there's too many of us.....
Guest
Andrew B - thanks for that, given that most tests I watch the jumpers would leave ther ground before the ball leaves the throwers hands that would make most International lineouts illegal - except for the ones where everyone forgets to jump.... Sheesh....& I thought the breakdown was dodgy.....
Andrew B
Guest
Mark, Law 19.10(h) says you can't jump before the ball leaves the throwers hands. At Community level the ARU like ref's to 'manage' the situation - if someone goes up early, call them down if the ball has not been thrown. Only penalise if they don't come down and interfere or win the ball. I've no idea what the international refs are told.
Mark
Guest
Cattledog - can you remember the rules for hang time on an early jump ? When Eaton stole the first of his two lineouts he jumped approx. 1 second b4 the ball was thrown (yep, I was that bored last night I timed it). So we've had Kearns the commentator going off about his 'early jump' & a few roarers posting he should've been pinged for going early. What are the actual rules with early jumps & what are the refs instructions on how to 'interpret' those rules ? Thanks Mark
AndyS
Guest
It was meaningless within the context of the game, but I did wonder about consistency with Joe's knock on when he wasn't even moving forward. There was absolutely no chance he was going for the intercept - certainly no more chance than Smith - yet it was worth three points when Smith did it? But at the end of the day a deliberate knockdown is a penalty for a reason, and it is the refs call. If nothing else, it gives supporters something to talk about.
Mark
Guest
Hey Cattledog, are you refering to Joe's 'knock on' in Sat nights game that Kearns commentated on recommending the death penalty..sorry...penalty try...sorry.. sending off of teh entire AB squad as they were all cheating. I thought the union definition of a 'deliberate' was when the player hit the ball down instead of up or forwards ? Always seemed a pretty fair interpretation to me as if you're hitting the ball down then you either don't understand gravity & are too stupid to be on teh pitch, or you weren';t really going for that intercept. On a side note, based on the response you've gotten so far I'm not surprised you're an ex-ref, I'd have better things to do with my time than put up with the vitriol you've just coped. Oh yeah, it's an Australian site & the Wallabies just got thrashed so the supporters are grumpy, I'll stop smiling now.....
Dean Pantio
Guest
If you're a retired referee, I feel sorry for the players and spectators of any games you officiated. In the vast majority of the time it is readily apparent to all and sundry if a player has attempted an intercept and dropped it; as opposed to a player who deliberately hits the ball to prevent the pass completing successfully. There is no "reasonable doubt" test.
Yikes
Guest
This is a bit silly. A knock-on is an infringement. An intentional knock-on is a penalty infringement. It's that simple. The referee doesn't have to be a mindreader, just make an informed judgement. The referee has to deal with whether or not he thinks an infringement is intentional all the time. The Law Book has a whole Law covering intentional infringements, 10.2(a)! Why is it refs can tell if a player has intentionally killed the ball at the breakdown and deserves binning, but they can't tell if a player's intent is to go for an intercept or knock the ball down to kill an attacking movement? Of course they can.