New Zealand punches well above its weight

I think those numbers are wrong. 140,279 are the numbers of rugby players who played the game in all level in NZ . The 183,310 in rugby union and 423,584 in rugby league in Australia is the participation numbers which include kids attending coaching clinics and after school activities , There is no way that Australia has 423,584 rugby league players playing the game at all levels.

That survey specifically isn't a measure of registered players. It merely asks what people do for physical activity and it only requires them to have done an activity once in the last 12 months to qualfy. You're not comparing apples with apples. When you do compare registered adult players (and indeed overall registered players of all ages) Aus has more than NZ. If you could link to a study done in Aus with the same methodology perhaps you could make a similar point.

All numbers are for all ages. All are organised forms of the game as well (as opposed to random games in the back-yard). I don't think the ARU have accurate figures for womans rugby, apart from that I think all the figures are pretty accurate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport_in_New_Zealand ".....Participation in Sport" states that 158,100 New Zealand adults participated in Rugby Union in the previous twelve months ......"

Those numbers aren't for adults in NZ.

Those figures show a participating figure for adults playing rugby in New Zealand. The Australian figure is for all ages because according to the ARU annual report in 2008 http://www.rugby.com.au/aru/images/aru_annual_report_2008_revised_reduced.pdf 37,179 adults played Rugby in Australia Their are a lot more rugby players in New Zealand hence their great success at the game

It's not a subject I spend a lot of time thinking about. I'd just like some examples to see whether I agree with them or not.

I reckon it's more to do with diplomatic etiquette myself. Canada and the US also send out their fireys so in that respect they are also our mates, no more or no less than NZ are anyway. Cheers

'No worries about the Jo Blakes etc however we are again up aginst it re. the fires' Don't worry repub, if the fires get out of control like last last year then you can be sure NZ will send over fire fighters to help...................thats just what mates do ;)

OJ So are you saying we are the same culturally - then why are you not a state if that's the case? The differneces are too numerouse to expound on here but if you knew your history it shoud be obvious i would have thought Ora No not all. Much of what I have expressed here is in fact a widely held sentiment amongst Australians, it's just that most Ozzies are way to polite to air it. Hate is a strong word but then NZers should know more about that emotion, since NZ holds a collectively obsessive disdain of all things Ozzie. You are indeed a constant source of bemusemnt to us posumms, since on one hand you spend an inordinate amount of time piously deriding this country and it's people, all the while coveting everything about us. When rarely challenged over this affliction of national proportion, you simply spit the dummy, villifying the messenger rather than taking any of it on board.; truth be told, you mob spend way too much energy scrutinising Australia when you would be well advised to start putting your own house in order. No worries about the Jo Blakes etc however we are again up aginst it re. the fires. Good day and good luck

What is this overt and public display of NZ patriotism/nationalism? What do you call Australia day? What's the difference between New Zealanders and Australians culturally?

and the wallabies have won more union world cups. and more league world cups.

I would say Republican that you are a an embarassment to many Australians, your loathing and deep seated hatred for new Zealand is so obvious. What I'd say is don't hate us because your not us!!! have a good evening mate I hope the snakes and spiders dont bite

Katzilla If i happened to know you, yes then i reckon we potentially could be mates. Our countries are not 'matey' in that respect and I am sure you know exactly what I am trying to convey here. I like your style however, cobber, digger blue.... Cheers

'I tire of this misplaced sentiment that says we are best mates, we are not mates at all.' Speak for yourself 'Mate' ;)

Jaredsbro Conversely the Amin of League in NZ is very ordinary from what many are saying however this has NOT rendered NZ un competitive with Oz, on the contrary I would say Kiwis are superior in League presently, especially considering their playing numbers, admin, structural apparatus and grass roots. So how does that explain Unions lack of pedigree in Oz? I still maintain this has much to do with where it sits in the national sporting psyche, which is very low compared to other codes. NZ are still devout in their support of Union which does translate to how they perform compared to Oz. There is absolutely no doubting that Union is huge proportionately speaking in NZ, compared to Australia and I maintain that is the difference. Cheers

The referance I made to patriotism was something I read in a very credible periodical that is dedicated to Australian social commentary, as opposed to some half baked googled poll. This was actually referring to Australia's lack of 'overt' patriotism, drawing analogies with countries that display their patriotism/ nationalism in a more public manner. The usual suspects graced this list of around twenty countries including the U.S, Norway, Korea, a few European and Middle Eastern countries and to my suprise NZ, which was in the top five to ten from memory. I am not privvy to the methodology or criteria used in producing this particular list however I do respect the credibility of this publication and have been going through my back issues, in the hope of offering further referance in this respect. I have no doubt we Australians are a patriotic mob, that was not the issue here, however what should be realised is that there exists cultural nuances that influence the ways in which patriotism is experienced and acted out. NZ are a small country that punch above their weight in a sporting sense with a cultural profile to match, which can be attributed to an overt patriotic desire to be noticed despite this. For a country of only 5mill they certainly are ubiquitously in the worlds face and far from being the demure collective they inwardly profess to be. Can I also reitterate that Australia and NZ are NOT the same culturally and it is about time that those on both sides of the ditch accepted this. I tire of this misplaced sentiment that says we are best mates, we are not mates at all. We are countires that share some quite looosley connected historic ties to England and we happen to be geopgraphically close. For the main part we simply tolerate each other out of some sort of P.C. obligation which can be attributed to such dated institutions as ANZAC. This is an alliance of mythical proportion that has little relevance to the NZ or Australia of the 21st Century and as stated in a previous post, harbours some pious resentment from the Kiwi perspective, which should be no suprise to us really. Cheers

Might have something to do with the % of maori and islander players that make up the population.

'Kiwis are in fact quite resentful of the attention Oz commands through ANZAC compared to them as with just about anything else you care to mention.' The only people that give Australia more attention in the ANZAC legacy are Australians. And when I say that, I don't mean the actually soldiers who can call themselves ANZACs, every Australian vet i've spoken to is immediate in their respect for the NZ soldiers they fought with once they find out im a Kiwi. That same respect isn't carried on by the Australian ANZAC day PR machine. Everyday NZers give due respect to the contribution of our brothers across the Tasman, it is most definately not the other way round. Its not resentment, its respect and the expectation that the same respect is reciprocated. You can't spell ANZAC without NZ, likewise with Australia. Although NZAC looks better on paper then AAC ;)

rugbyfuture All I can say is this is a tired and overstated sentiment fueled by years of politically exploitive pathos. Kiwis are in fact quite resentful of the attention Oz commands through ANZAC compared to them as with just about anything else you care to mention. They have certainly come out of the woodwork again here. Good night and good luck.