Back to Ballymore will be good for Reds, says Horwill

I don't think the reds can actually sell ballymore.. I think they have a lease arrangement with state gov.. if they pack up and go.. the gov can then take it over and do what they want.. would be a great spot for housing precinct. which would defeat the purpose of the locals who protest about the increase traffic and reduction of green space etc they'll get in the area if there's a redeveloment.

Don't get me wrong - I know the Reds are currently NOWHERE near that mark - all I am saying is that that is what they should be aiming at. If you get a sellout at Suncorp for a Wallabies Match it means that there are more than 40k rugby fans in Brisbane - which means there are already more than 40k potential Reds fans already there. ...and like you said 35k on average for the Broncos - and that is over a much longer season. Why shouldn't the Reds be looking to achieve something like 40k? They are not aiming high enough - or trying hard enough for me.

I will be taking my 11 year old son and my brother in law who will be bringing his two boys as well. This is how the spirit of Ballymore starts. I hope they remember today's stars like I remember Paddy Batch, Paul McLean, Roger Gould, David Hillhouse, Tim Horan, etc,etc,etc. Mind you we are also all going to the NSW game at Lang Park.

We also need to be the look out for the Houston gut. Its not playing due to a knee niggle, but we all need to keep an eye out for its current size. If anyone manages to sight the mighty beast please post your report here.

You sure will. Looking forward to seeing how Hynes goes at 15, seeing how Chambers adapts, whether Higs is the answer at 8. Looking forward to watching how Walsh and Lucas shape up. There are so many questions about this team... hopefully we start getting some answers tomorrow.

They be better subsidising the Reds at Suncorp… Or the Reds sell Ballymore and using the cash to pay extra coast at Suncorp while they build a new venue in a more accessible location… winning games brings the fans back not an old rundown stadium past its prime...

Well said... I'm respectful of Ballymores history but its a new era... no point driving new fans away...

RF, there are arguments both ways and I wish I had a crystal ball. Your question to me is hypothetical because I don't think we would have had the bad results over the past three years had we been at Ballymore because the saved money would have been spent on better players and coaches which means more success on the field. Easy to say I know, and I am not for a minute suggesting we would have won the comp, but the results couldn't have been any worse than what we had. Don't the juniors grow up playing their finals at Ballymore as well as school interstate games and alike? So from an early age it develops as the spiritual home of rugby for Queenslanders (players and spectators) as well as an intimidating venue with (hopefully) bad memories for outsiders. It doesn't just become your home ground once you make the Reds team. I am not convinced that to go back there necessarily means an immediate multi-million dollar upgrade. I was there recently to watch a womens soccer match and although the crowd was tiny, the place seemed OK to me. The field is in beautiful condition. Apart from a seat with a view, a beer and a pie and a winning team, what else do you need? I will see you there tomorrow night because if it was at Lang Park I wouldn't bother going just for a trial.

not unless a lions games is on at the same time.

Another factor at play here, is the role of the state government. If they provide the grant needed to get Ballymore up to standard, they effectively remove two tenants (Reds and Roar) from Suncorp Stadium, which they also run. They are quite conflicted in this. The misuse of government funding being investigated further complicates things. Any move out to the airport precinct would spell certain death. who the hell would want to travel out there???

Agreed Matt. However, Horwill is in the minority. Our playing list is quite light on QLD'ers. Lots of interstate and NZ imports. If the same big deal was made about Suncorp being home the same psychological impact can be made. But i'm not sure any talk of 'home' is enough to build a business case on, especially when that business case could make or break QLD rugby. It could be an expensive mistake if supporters stay away because of location and access reasons. To be honest I have been very surprised at the resilience of the QLD crowd numbers. They still manage 19,000 for the last round of 2009 when all was lost, and after three years in the bottom three. That is a pretty hard core bunch of supporters.

Surely you don't have to have played at the ground to call it 'home'? As Horwell has said "You remember growing up and coming to Ballymore". It's the fans and long time Reds supporters who call it home. That sort of attitude rubs on the team and inspires better performance. If the Reds could then get the Roar as tenants at the ground then a grant for redevelopment might not be impossible.

TORF, if I thought playing at Ballymore would mean more wins then I'd be on the bandwagon. But that simply isn't the case. Most of the guys in the squad have never known it as their home ground. I reckon only Hardman would have ever played a super season there. On the saving money issue, its not as simple as saying we own Ballymore therefore we save money. To get it up to standard they need to invest tens of millions to reverse years of doing nothing to the ground. A strategic decision was made not to maintain it. To reverse that would take big loans and would soak up any savings from not playing at Suncorp. That is why they are trying to government grants, because teh loans required could cripple them more than teh cost of playing at Suncorp. Are you saying that given the same results of the past three years you would have gone to games if they were played at Ballymore?

Totally agree Reds fan. The lack of surrounding pubs, places to eat etc is often ignored when talking about ballymore. It would be even worse for football fans. They don't have the collective memory of going to ballymore and they have no historical links to the ground. Combined with a losing team the crowds would be smalller than they are now.

This is always a tough issue to talk about. Ballymore has a lot emotion attached to it. And that is not to be scoffed at. However, times have changed and so have the standards of people heading out to any sporting event. Even if Ballymore was re-developed, it is still constrained by its location. Back in the day when drink-driving was a national pastime, it was great to drive down to Ballymore, open the boot or tailgate, get a barbie going, sink heaps of XXXX, watch a great game of rugby and then drive home. Those days are long gone. People want a night out as much as a game of union/league/AFL. What Suncorp's location offers is just that. You have Caxton Street and the newly developed Barracks on one side, and Given and LaTrobe Terrace the other side. There is everything from Tha Cacko Hotel through to Montrachet. You can get a train from anywhere to Roma St or closer still to Milton St station. They are numerous bus routes and there are plenty of taxis (yes i know the lines get long but try getting one in Herston after a game!). The suburb is set up for big crowds and events. Ballymore has none of these things. Getting a bus in there is just as bad as driving, its virtual gridlock. There is nowhere to go after the game and getting out is worse than getting in there. Dont get me wrong, I love going there a few times a year to watch a trial or see a GF or something. But if you add the hassle of Ballymore with a perennial loser I would suggest crowds would be even lower than they are now. It would certainly test my patience. However in Paddington, you can combine it with dinner before a game, drinks with friends, even a movie now. A football ground will not improve the Reds performance's. However the Reds performances can improve any percieved lack of atmosphere at Suncorp. Despite this, I will watch them wherever they play. And I hope they do what is best for them financially. I just hope that financial decision isnt influenced by the romanticism of a bygone era.

Ballymore is ld rusted and a dump... Why for god sake do you wont to take your fan base there? Let it go it is history ballymore is not what it was and can never be that again. This is cow-tailing to the QLD rugby romantics who can't look to the future let alone the present Reds fans base. QLDRU should sell the land and get a State Government plan to build a fresh sporting / Rugby venue... Get over it gentleman, history is in the past and you can't visit it on weekends

Whilst I would love to see 40,000 at a Reds match, when you consider the Broncos averaged crowds for the six months ended 30 June 2009 of 35,993, I think we'll be waiting a while.

If public transport to Ballymore is perceived as a problem (although as BoundaryRider points out, Wilston train station is only 800m away) then why doesn't the QRU should spend money on shuttle buses to and from Paddington or the city, to get people from and back to the pubs? I haven't lived in Brisbane for 20 years but I'm guessing the closest pubs to Ballymore are still the Newmarket and Normanby - both quite a hike.. Surely that would be a small cost compared to the lease costs of Suncorp.

Bay, It seems to me that the main argument to stay at Lang Park is that Ballymore has poor public transport access and that the main argument to leave Lang Park is that it is crippling us financially. If moving to Ballymore means that the Reds will start winning again, the crowds will find a way to get there no matter how bad the public transport is. And I believe that returning to Ballymore will help us return to our winning ways. Apart from financial considerations, it seems that the players want to return 'home' and surely that can't be ignored. I believe we originally moved to Lang Park as part of turning professional optimistically hoping to expand our supporter base at a bigger ground with better public transport access. The problem was that we then had little success on the field, so no-one turned up (including me). The Reds were left with high lease fees which meant less money to attract and retain quality players and coaches. In short, the problem was our on-field failures and there are numerous reasons for that (such as the Force) but suffice to say that they resulted in a lack of player talent to compete in an international competition. If we move back to Ballymore, the money saved can be spent on retaining and attracting those better players and coaching staff. But I don't see that even a successful Queensland team is going to regularly attract more than 24,000 to their home games in the forseeable future. Why do we need to play in a 50,000 seat stadium? The Brumbies don't. Most of the rugby league teams are based at Ballymore size grounds. I suspect that there is some political pressure. Like Horwill, I would rather be at a full house at Ballymore than a half empty Lang Park. It was quite intimidating to visiting teams. The Reds need to come home to Ballymore (and bring back their old jersey design). See you there on Friday.

If the Reds were say to win the Super 14 one year (not likely within 3 years) it could definitely get 30k to each game, as well as a major funding boost to Ballymore. Even just upgrading Ballymore to 35k it can be done, that will provide a 2nd rectangular stadium for QLD which we really do need at the moment, especially with a possible new NRL team for Brisbane on the cards, as well as a possible FIFA World Cup bid.