Memo to the ARU: get Greg Inglis, now!

http://rugbyreloaded.blogspot.com/2010_01_01_archive.html Union/League converts... the inconvenient truth Yet more lower-sixth bluster from Stephen Jones in The Times. He thinks that Shontayne Hape's selection in the England union squad 'flies in the face of all available evidence that players of rugby league are any good at rugby union'. Presumably he was so keen to attack league that he forgot Chris Ashton's selection and the fact he is the Guinness Premiership's top tryscorer, but, leaving that inconvenient truth to one side, let's take a look at the available evidence. And while we're at it, let's also examine Chris Hewett's claim in the Independent that 'the numbers do not stack up against the number of union players who, during the amateur era, abandoned the 15-man game to head north'. How true is this? On the first point, with the exception of Jason Robinson, the England coaching team chose three other league players coming to the end of their careers. All three were victims of union over-expectation - they are two different sports after all. Henry Paul didn't cover himself in glory playing for the England union side. On the other hand, he was the backbone of England's sevens' side. Lesley Vainakolo barely got a pass in England colours and never really had a chance to prove himself. And Andy Farrell was a rapidly-aging, easily-injured rugby league prop in his thirties when the RFU decided to throw money at him and make him a union inside centre. At the margins, BJ Mather (a former schoolboy union international) played one game for England in 1998 after playing one league international, and Chev Walker never looked interested at Bath. So of six league internationals, one became a union great and five were capped for England. If we look at Australia, where seven eligible Kangaroo players have switched (Mark Gasnier and Luke Rooney aren't eligible to for Wallaby selection because they play overseas), only Nathan Blacklock did not play international union. Together, Sailor, Rogers and Tuquiri clocked up 149 Wallaby caps. Brad Thorn has 37 All Blacks caps to date. This is not failure by anyone's standards. But let's flip the equation and compare this with the history of union converts to league. Of the 35 England rugby union internationals who switched to league between 1900 and 1995, just eight went on to play for Great Britain, and five of those had played league as youths. That's 23%, or slightly less than one in four. For a bigger sample, Robert Gate's wonderful Gone North lists all 148 Welsh union internationals who switched to league between 1895 and the book's publication in 1986. Of those 148 internationals, only 28 went on to play for the Great Britain rugby league team. That's just 19%, or slightly less than one in five. Sure, everyone's heard of Lewis Jones and David Watkins, but who remembers Stuart Evans or Dai Young, two Welsh union greats who were utterly out of their depths in league? So the moral of the story is that if one out of every four international converts reaches international level in their new code, it's pretty much as successful as it's going to get. And on that evidence, league converts are no worse than union converts - and if we take Australia into account, somewhat better.

Exactly Hutch! It was an exciting game before Wendell came across! Shame you didn't get to see any of it.

Seems the rugby crew are over the thought of leaguies coming across. Wendell, Lote and Rogers all did well but they weren't even in the ball park of Rupeni Caucau (?) and a few of the Kiwi wingers of the era. They were given a pretty easy ride by Eddie Jones into the 2003 RWC because he is a fanatical league supporter and seemed to want their (the league worlds) approval. Players like Graeame Bond from the ACT Brumbies who was named in the S12 Team of the year voted on all teams from the three countries left Aus because he realised Eddie wasn't going to look at him. Joe Roff was dropped for Rogers who was 5 metres too deep on every backline movement during the RWC competition. Reality is GI is a great player....but he has had a legal matter recently which the admins wouldn't like & his defence is inconsistent. Out Centre is the hardest position to defend in both codes and he would struggle.....look at Ryan Cross and Tahu who missed more than they made. Attacking wise he would be brilliant to watch but it's time for rugby to enjoy their own talented players and stop thinking the league players are going to add more than the guys already serving their code internationally. Oh and people are dreaming if they think he would be as impactful as Lomu who was a champion sprinter 120kg and deemed to have the abillity to be a powerlifter.

Don't need him.. plenty of good players in our own ranks!

How do you murder an already fried chicken?

hey boof, I said a lot of fatties, I never said there were no athletes, learn to read.

Do you really believe that there are no athletes in Rugby Union? That all the 1m + South Africans, New Zealanders, Brits, Argentinians etc who play the game are somehow genetically inferior to the hundred thousand or so who play League in 2 states of Aus, 2 counties in England, PNG and a few suburbs in France, NZ and a few other places? Do you realise how stupid that sounds? Roy Masters recently wrote that Greg Inglis was the best player in any rugby code.... not sure how he can make that statement given he has no idea what Rugby Union is all about (lives in the same world asa you do). What an insult to Fourie Du Preez, Victor Matfield, Bryan Habana, Richie MaCaw, Brian O'Driscoll etc. Greg Inglis is not fit to lace these guys boots. They have achieved far more in their careers and if we put it to a vote of all those who have seen these various athletes perform regularly, Inglis etc would not even warrant a mention. We heard it all before. Sailor was supposed to be a revelation in rugby - he had scored 110 tries in 189 club games for the Broncos. How did he go in Union? 29 tries in 92 top level games. Compare this to Bryan Habana with 104 tries in 158 top level rugby games - not even in the same stratosphere!

what volley ball?

the world game?????? the wallabies dont play the world game!

Judging by the number of penalties awarded in any given RU game, there must be an awful lot of dumb RU players getting about.

well dude lets face it, League is a dumbed down version of Union so the "not smart enough to play Union" comment is pretty apt!

good one! He will be remembered for the worst individual display in the history of Australian rugby - pretty darn terrible. Easy to be players player v the Cheetahs in a dead rubber!

sorry mate but playing in front of 52k at Loftus makes origin at Suncorp seem like a walk in the park. And that is the same for Newlands, Kings Park, Ellis Park, Bloemfontein. Plus you are comparing one game a year with a dozen or more for the Union boys. Not even in the same stratosphere.

Another dreamer. Rugby league in Australia doesn't need rugby union. Move on.

Wendell was a good rugby player. Great big game player. Lote even more skillful. Rogers had a half season with the Tahs that was world class before injury stopped him. To quote McKenzie they " could play". Staniforth was great too and unlucky to have deserved selection without getting it. We don't need to write off the experiment of the Three League Amigos as a total failure. 3 players who once played a simpler game can't be the cause of OZ rugby's doldrums. Yes we should have developed kids before now but let's get real -WE DIDN"T. So we can only make the best choices for current circumstances not former or future ones. I understand posters calling for development of unknown rugby team men before big League stars. BUT I can't help but wish for that big Inglis kid to put his hand up for the world game and wear a Wallaby jersey. Maybe I'm a bit sentimental for the Eighties or indigenous rugby players but Inglis reminds me so much of Ella . And with the Ella brothers Australia won the Grand Slam in 1984. Inglis has that Ella silk but with a fend. Having said all that I am finding myself agreeing with Oikee in his early post when he suggested the two codes should share players. He suggested a loan system. It really should not be "us and them". The Footy show ignores rugby even though the families of some of their big stars are living in beautiful houses - paid for by rugby. Rugby is a big dirty secret that die-hard League politics can't recognize exists. (MEMO to League-Only Fans - I don't hate League.) I just think that both codes could share stories, coaching, facilities , players, ethical contract/poaching agreements, promotions, a DOUBLE CODE FOOTY SHOW (let's face it plenty of us watch both- In OZ at least). We'd all learn something. And the tubby or bean pole kids who don't get a chance in league might get a run as rugby props or 2nd row. And ditto with kids more suited to League. It need not be this siege mentality argument that we have now . And we may get beyond the schoolyard banter we've had on this thread. We might even form a stronger trade association to fend off other codes market invasions. Anyway regarding this article we need to invest in young rugby player development AND we need the best possible elite team players on the paddock NOW. How should we mix those imperatives together? John O'Neil and others get paid a lot of money to have that headache.

I think those 'dumb' leaguies give them publicity, tv ratings and bums on seats

What do the ARU need another dumb leaguie for?? Inglis is a great league player, but leave him where he is and let the local juniors wear the green and gold proudly!!

Speak the money on keeping aussie talent down under like QC and Hynsie. Both off to france

OK you are right Inglis is certainly miles better than Tahu or any of the other previous converts but to be honest we have heard it all before! I have no doubt GI would be an awesome Union player - I think he has the game for it - but it will take him at least 3 years to get there and a shitload of money for an outside back.

Twice the player Tahu is? What has Tahu got to do with Inglis, mate your off your rocker if you think any player in Union would even lace Inglis's bootlaces. This guy is what we all call a Freak, he is big 110 kg, he is tall 6'5 in the old book, he is fast,(never been run down in league) and can pass throw and create anything on the feild. If he come out and said he wanted to play union, loved to play your game, you would wet your pants. :) I know i would. :) He is awesome.