Wallabies scrum will improve, says Elsom

The England front row also said that they expended a lot of energy in trying to keep the Wallaby front row off the ground as they wanted to get a good drive on. I agree totally on the straight feed, it is an absolute basic, highly visible and easily rectified. If there is a 'new' interpretation in the breakdown to favour a running game then lets do the same in the scrums to ensure a fair contest and promote tough, fair scrummaging where we can see strikes against the head. If there is a straight feed it will change tactics reducing the shove as both hookers should be striking for the ball, less shove equals less reset scrums and a faster game. A straight feed brings a new dimension to the game again.

I agree with you that they were very poor tactically, don't know whether it was the coaches or player inflexibility though. Roberts is set up as a crash ball specialist but his partnership with Hook will pay dividends next year as they settle together and become more incisive (rapier and bludgeon). Stephen Jones is good but not great so maybe we need some new blood there - Biggar? Wings are good, full back good, the pack is weak without Gethin Jenkins and there are question marks over the second row, flankers are getting there but Ryan Jones is a bit of a worry as he is a bit too much like Nick Easter. I think that the midfield defence would benefit from the return of Gavin Henson as he is rumoured to be coming back next season On the coaching front I also like Steve Meehan, but also really respect Jake White, but not Eddie Jones.

Maybe? Maybe baby. I think that tactically Wales were very poor during the 6N, but is that down to the pre-match plans of the coaches or a tactical inflexibility of certain players? Saturday will tell us a lot. If Wales go well then he stays, but if Wales have a bad day then serious questions are going to be asked. Not sure who'd replace him either? In Wales I like Paul Turner, but not Dai Young. Incidentally, if I could choose a head honcho for England it would be Bath's Steve Meehan.

I am getting increasingly concerned about Gatland, to be honest. He has taken Wales up a notch, but hasn't made it two notches. Maybe it is time to start looking for someone to capitalise on the improvements that he has made?

Viscount Crouchbak In the scenario you described, Cole should have been penalised every time for incorrect binding. The laws are framed to give the defending side a reasonable opportunity to win the put in. The binding laws therefore must be applied, regardless of the impressive super strength of the offender. Maybe you also agree that crooked feeds are ok because the defending side does not stand a chance. So why bother applying a law aimed at giving the defending side a fair go. Incidentally, I have forgotten when I last saw a correct feed. And I have forgotten when I last saw a referee who had a clue what was going on in the front row

He doesn't coach. I'd be more concerned about Gatland, if I were you, scarlet. Ouch, this kitty has claws...

I'm surprised to read so many Australians (Wix, Mike) clutching at the binding straw. The facts are these: if a tight-head shoves the loosehead backwards - as Cole did to Daley all night - then the loosehead will often respond by shifting his backside outwards and angling his head inwards, at which point it becomes physically impossible for the tight-head to maintain the bind without dislocating his shoulder. If Cole was slipping the bind, then this is probably why. It might make people feel better to blame the nasty cheating English, but let's not clutch at straws.

The Super 14 stats point to the Aussie teams as the main contributors to reset scrums, with the Tahs way out in the lead. So, given these facts, who do you think would the usual suspects come June Internationals and 3N? The Aussie teams are their own worst enemies. Get somebody in from Europe or NZ or SA to sort out your scrummaging, Noriega is to entrenched in the Aussie culture of Bill Young school of skulduggery and may have lost touch with the the way it is being blown by refs currently. Since being demolished in the WC what has really changed, except for Robinson? I know that the refs have to attend scrummaging lectures by former props such as Balie Swart, Dougie Heymans, etc. as part of their pre season preperation, so I'm sure it happens in other countires too, and although they won't know all the tricks they will know a lot of tricks. But then again the Aussie props may just not be physically strong (I know Baxter is)or technically proficient enough. Both can be rectified to a certain extent, but if you're already working from a deficit...

And you deduced that this was what they were doing how? Are you clarevoyant by any chance?

Don't even joke about it, the way Martin Johnson has been coaching that may end up in the play book

If I were England I would throw forward passes and make knock-ons all Saturday night trying to get 80 scrums in 80 minutes. It's their best hope.

I recall at the time of the quarter final in 2007 that there was talk from the English that they would deliberately knock on when in range of the posts to try to get scrum penalties and three points. I don't know if that was true; but, they certainly knocked on in Australia's half a great deal. In that game, there was the ridiculous situation where the ball was not even put into the scrum prior to a penalty being given, nothwithstanding the fact that there is to be no pushing before the ball is fed. What a magnificent advertisement to the game! I'm sure that William Webb Ellis thought upon picking up the round ball: this is great fun; but, it is missing something ... I know, 16 blokes pushing against each other and whomever can push the best will be rewarded with a penalty. That will be something that people will want to play and watch. Hey we can even do away with the need for a ball then. Surely the scrum, whilst technical and skillful is predominantly a means to restart the game. At the danger of repeating what I have said earlier, if it becomes the game we are lost. When the Wallabies went to Twickenham last season and dished up their tormentors, I allowed myself a rye smile, before I cringed in panic and prayed that the Australians would not put so much effort into this aspect of the game and ignore all else. Thankfully that hasn't happened. It would have been interesting seeing whether or not a full-strength Wallaby pack would have been as dominant, if not the equal of this English pack. However, it would only have been "interesting".

Parisien, I would agree with you overall as I think that poor coaching sits at the heart of the English problems. England under Woodward were a far more accomplished team but the structure and fear within the RFU has meant that they have not culled their sacred cows which is long overdue. Everyone respects Johnson as a player but as a Manager he has been awful. Dump him and bring in Jake White and allow White to choose his management team and players. I think that the core is already there but their playing structure is wrong.

Scarlet, this is a revealing comment you made: "Players will do whatever they can get away with, how many times were you told to play to the whistle, not to an offence that you thought would stop play? It is an extension of that. How many times do you hear commentators ruefully grin when they talk about playing the game and the little edges that they created by slowing down an opponent by stepping in the path of his kick/chase (very facile and relatively poor example), shirt pulling, illegal bind?" I sometimes get the impression that English teams/players get more caught up in this side of playing rugby than just playing the ball, and this is a problem linked to their coaches and management. All teams and players look for an edge but not to the detriment of the fundamentals of their own game. As the English players themselves said afterwards, a strong scrum does not suffice to win you the game. They came off feeling they had been suckered into "rope a dope". The scrum is supposed to provide a platform. It can't just be the be all and end all. England has always seemed scrum obsessed to me to the detriment of other aspects of their game they should develop, and always likes to slow the ball and game down. The real problem with England is a general paucity of ideas and skills that goes back seven years. There is no doubt the English scrum was better last saturday, but it is also true as many have pointed out they got away with a lot of illegal scrumming. If the ref had been fairer, they would have been penalised a couple of times as well, and received at most one penalty try, not two. They were gifted points by the ref. But their scrum was stronger! Their scrum was stronger! Lets write it out a hundred times! So be it, but all this talk of the scrum, (its the Roar's word of the week) - and I do understand that English supporters try to find some solace and comfort in their team's otherwise appalling show - distracts England and her supporters from bigger issues : the coach, management, player's skills, speed, ideas, tactics, execution... I suspect that reaching the final in 2007 did a disservice to English rugby lulling them into thinking all was ok again. The selection of Martin Johnson as manager added to it. He has blooded new players and tried new combinations but brought no ideas. The team hasn't gone forward. AnywayI hope that England improve their all round game for next Saturday and that Australia improves it scrum. I still predict a Wallaby win.

And the locks!!

Scarlet, fair enough. In terms of balance, I think Georgie McHugh's post above expresses what I am trying to say better than I can. I think his idea of bringing on an ex-piggie to referee the scrum is a great idea, but I would keep the ref there on the other side - (a) because it gives coverage of both sides, and (b) he might learn something. But anyway, we can agree to disagree. I think you have nailed the problem with their general game. I do not believe that these English halves and backs are as bad as they seem. They apparently play well in their clubs, so when they then turn in a generally awful test performance, thoughts have to turn to the coaching staff. I selfishly hope that the poms keep Martin J - a great player in his day, but he and his team are stifling the life out of some great potential players.

Hooly dooly!! Just watching the U20s South- Africa-Australia match. Bring those props into the Wallabies now!!! UNITS!!!!

Mike, we will not agree as you seem to think that the ref is to blame for the unbalanced scrum contest and I don't. Maybe this weekend will see the Wallabies hammer England as the French referee will come out and support the Wallaby scrum against the English cheats.......then again, maybe the Wallaby scrum will improve but will still be shown up. Which, is what I think will happen. Personally, I would like to see England play a more expansive game and for the contest to be more even across the park. However, I think that the English backs have been given a poor game plan and they slavishly adhere to it. The Australian backs are definitely better coached and as a unit probably 20% better than the English unit, but so is the English scrum, with or without the ref. Fly half is a key difference and Toby Flood isn't up to scratch. Neither is Cipriani as he isn't mature enough - maybe his time in Melbourne will toughen him up. There are a number of very good players in the England backline who should be allowed to express themselves. if they did it would be an interesting game

Scrum, and, accordingly the front row are very important to the game of rugby. But, they are not and cannot be the MOST important thing in rugby. When points can be scored directly as a result of what happens at the scrum (either a penalty try or a penalty kick) and teams employ as the major path to putting points on the board, there is a massive problem with the game. England's back line attack (and defence) was dreadful. Unfortunately, the Northern Hemisphere hijacked the better approach of short-arm penalties at scrums. Saying that, I thought that a third (at best) string, inexperienced front row probably did as well as they could against a vastly greater experienced front row, who were allowed to get away with plenty. I don't suppose that this will happen; but, as I have espoused elsewhere, the only way to properly police the illegalities at the scrum is to bring on a neutral ex-Test front rower to adjudicate at scrum time. It doesn't matter if his knees are both aluminium, bring him on to the field on a golf cart. It would have to stop the tricks if one of the former members of the front-rowers club said to whomever it was who was engaging in skull duggery: "I know what you are doing. If it happens again I will penalise". It has to be better than a bloke who, if he did play in the school fourth XV, played in the backline having to have a meaningful understanding about what happens in the scrums. And the Shute Shield referees are no better, they guess as well.

No, its not a matter of "trying to blame the ref". The referee failed to police the English pack, and as a result it turned into a one-sided contest. Nobody (including you) can objectively say how bad the Australian pack was or was not, because no true contest was permitted. "Even if the ref forced every regulation in the scrum rule book to have been adhered to the Wallaby front row wouldn’t have done any better." - No, the ref didn't need to "force every regulation in the scrum rule book". He just had to understand and enforce the basics. Attempts to whitewash the referees performance won't wash - he just wasn't up to scratch in scrummaging. Owens performance was *almost* as appalling a performance as that of Craig Joubert last year. As I wrote above, the Australian performance at scrummaging will not improve until Australian captains, coaches and management start to bring referees to account.