Cut Johns some slack for being a typical Aussie bloke

Not trying to be unfair on Les, but he is the one who is putting forward his black and white view of Johns as a racist and condemning him for life and hoping that the lord smites him with balefire, because standing down from his coaching roles was not punishment enough on AJ for Les and Richie. I am just having my say as well as they are, and where did I say it was not ok for everyone to have their say???? And never said anyting about correlating comprehensive knowledge of league with racism, different contexts and different points... An article by the great Australian wicketkeeper Ian Healey really hit the mark. He states that Tahu's response of walking out on his team attempting the impossible and the first knowledge that he was ever offended was his absence from camp. He also advocates that constructive forgiveness and not blatant punishment must be the goal. The puritanical, myopic fire and brimstone punishments of those who commit 'mortal' sins are also things of the past, although some unmentionables (to not cause any more unfairness on them) like to still live in the past and advocate massive punishments for any scapegoat caught offending their morals. Healey also states unequivocably that man to man conversation wasn't enough for Tahu who may have believed that that option wouldn't have made a big enough goose out of Johns. Tahu's concern for his younger indegenous teammates such as Hayne and Learoyd-Lahrs was admirable, but walking away did nothing to back up his words. Stay there, get it sorted, and ensure these younger players had a role model and also make sure they were not subjected to more (according to Healey). He points to the great Nelson Mandela as the perfect role model for anyone faced with true racism and apartheid - develop the future rather than attempt to focus on the past and use it to his people's advantage. Puritanical and emotionally-fuelled punishments will not result in effective outcomes or promote racial harmony.

You're being unfair on Les here. He hasn't said how long he's been here, just that he was of Chinese heritage. His family could've been here for as long as yours. He never said that China was better than Australia. But if everyone had to subscribe to your point of view and not have their say, then you are describing communism, not democracy. I'm struggling to see how a comprehensive knowledge of Rugby League automatically makes someone an expert in racism. In fact it makes me wonder what percentage of Rugby League followers would find Johns comment acceptable as opposed to the general non Rugby League population. Just because some one was a great sports player, doesn't mean they're a great person - look how many people supported O J Simpson (mostly African American: just to prove I'm not just having a go at whites.)

Of course you do Les, that's the point. You love the benefits you get of living in a great country compared with China but as soon as something happens you are the first one on the media and Richie fuelled-bandwagon denouncing everyone that let's one (ONE beign the key word) comment in a different context than you are trying to argue for. Nothing wrong with a bit of ethnic cleansing these days - just ask your compatriots in China. If all the misinformed and biased comments that yourself and Richie have spouted during your posts evidences anything it is this: 1) you do not know much about rugby league; 2) you do not know what racism really entails or the exent of it in current Australia - you just love to believe that it is widespread to reinforce your biased belief that you have been 'scarred' for life because of being racially abused; 3) you could not argue your way out of Joey Johns` lunch paper wrapping. I woould know one thing for certain if I was ever racially abused. I would be more concerned with threats and acts to my physical person than with being called 'white tra$h', for example. I would love to see you and Richie on one of those reality game shows. The ones where the contestants are given monikers like "socialite" or "retired detective", for example. It would have Les "hates racists or those who inadvertently drop one comment that is racially based" and Richard "just doesn't know any better", hahahahaa...

Eel, I love Australia, why would I go live in China? You're right, we should all stick our heads in the sand regarding Indigenous rights. Any other helpful tips Eel?

Let's not talk about refugess, Jackson. The reason we are one of the most multicultural countries in the world is that our plicies are also one of the most flexible. What people who hark on letting even more people come in each year forget is - resources. We simply do not have them to support large populations like other countries - we are the second driest inhabited continent, etc. All well and good to upskill our labour market with migrant entry - but without infrastructure - little is achieved and living and economic conditions will be worse for all of those concerned. I don't think AJ will be making such comments in public again, especially if he gets another chance in the football arena - possibly only on drunken nights in a Newcastle pub.... But well done on recognising the other facts that you have mentioned in your post above, finally someone admitting to some home truths - lessons and facts for good old Richard and Les to learn....

Go live in China with Les, Richie, if the 'racism' here is as bad as you say. Correct, your diatribe is irrelevant to the present day. Les doesn't want to live in China or anywhere else for that matter cause he - and you - know how good you have it living in one of the best countries in the world - you just like to strut around, whine a bit and raise your comb like a bantam rooster sometimes...hahaaha

Irrelevant diatribe.

But he would've worked more than just three times a year - it would be like saying tax return time only happens once a year, but it's good that you agree with me that it would be unacceptable to use that language where colleagues are mingling every day. I've never mentioned Eureka or gold mines, but there is a good quote from George Santayana which goes "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

Ronnie and others you're right, Australia is a very multicultural country and that's great. Everyone knows that Brazil and NZ are very racially harmonious/tolerant... and, if we're honest, more so than us. For example, New Zealand lets in refugees with really little fuss...look what a fierce debate it turns into here, when only a few thousand arrive every year... (only 30,000 total since the 1970s, and if we keep going at the current rate it'll be another 30 years before they can fill up the MCG - hardly anything to worry about...) No, we are not extremely racist and we have improved alot since the 1960s I agree their is much more racism in Europe (France, and Russia, for example) Johns probably isnt a racist, but he and others just need to learn that some comments are not acceptable anymore, and for good reason.

it's too bad that you see the world in mutually exclusive, black and white terms, Les. Oops, pardon the pun - I might be name-called a racist now, rather than your bigot/apologist innuendoes. In Les and Richie's eyes, you've only got to let slip once and call someone a derogatory name to be labelled a "racist" - so censure all your language peoples of the world! It woldnt surprise me if you two Richie Rilestone, and Les, listed their heroes as Saddam and Osama. Woe betide anyone who singled out males of certain ethnic and national origins whose culture believed that males are superior to females and that they are entitled to treat women how they like, including perpetrating rape, and they take those beliefs with them and act on them when residing in other countries. If anyone spoke out against them and correlated this behaviour with their cultural and racial beliefs, it wouldnt be Les and Richie, they would be too concerned over it being thought of as racist and would be quick to want to sanction those who would link this behaviour with culture and race. What happened after you demonstrated and wrote to politicians about the oppression of Tibetans, Les? Nothing has changed? So there you go, laming around with your racist, bigot labels and "unacceptable" moralising hasn't gotten anywhere. If you two stooges actually stopped being narrow-minded and adversarial for a short time, you might even realise that we are on the same page for most of the arguments. My point here is that you are attacking someone who let slip a comment - when if you really want to make a difference, do something constructive and stand up for when real damage is done in the name of racism, if that's your cause. And don't keep arguing the point that one comment made by a football yobbo is in anyway connected to proving that racism is rife in Australia or that it is anywhere near as bad as racial villification or oppression that is out there in the global society. Racism is a cyclical issue, and it is mainly those like yourselves who like to water and fertislise it, so to speak, that make it worse and makes it an 'us v them' society. So,, it's good that you stand up for what you believe in, it's just I see you are putting your efforts into the wrong debate and tunnelling your energies into the big issues instead might well make some difference.

Well said Les.

You've got imagination?

You refuse to see the argument from any point but your own. You deny the reactions of people who were impacted directly because they offend your preconceptions; you deny that racist comments are racist, and deny that those who make racist comments are racists. Which part of "Fantasy Land" do you inhabit, Ronnie the Squeels? No doubt the part where they sing "It's a small world after all" because your world, with your head in the sand and your offensive tone, sure is small. Your mate Joey incited racism in an attemnpt to fire up his charges prior to Origin 2. In the process he offended a key player, aliented a large slab of the population and ultimately got the flick from the NSW team and now from the Eels, deservedly. You can't see why all this is going on around you though, can you Ronnie Ron. Because "there are none so blind as those who will not see".

eel First of all, the only reason I brought up my own heritage is so that I can say I've experienced being the subject of racist taunts, and that I know exactly what Tahu and the others affected by Johns' RACIST words are going through. "BLACK C**T" is far worse than "chink", "gook", "ching chong chinaman", etc.... now are you going to tell me that I should tolerate it if people refer to me with those disgusting names? If not, then why would you suggest that "BLACK C**T" is nothing more than just change-room banter? I have no idea why you think that I "don't know, and never will know...what racism actually looks like or how it is defined" when I just mentioned that i HAVE experienced racism. Strange. You seem an authority- enlighten us with YOUR experiences on being a victim of racism please? Secondly, indeed yes, I have demonstrated and written to politicians regarding the Tibetan issue. What the heck is your point there??!?!?! Grasping at straws there, eel?? Thirdly, the points you raised in your last posting can be EASILY retorted by previous posts written by me and others. Go have a read of them again, if you wish. For the record, I've never called YOU racist once, only a bigot-apologist. However, I maintain that Johns is a racist who perpetrates racist attitudes and language. Why would a non-racist use racist language? Finally, it's not the word 'black' I have an issue with. It's merely descriptive. It's the RACIST connotation associated with callng someone a "BLACK C**T" that I have an issue with. Do you get that VERY SIMPLE DIFFERENCE or not?

I'd also imagine you'd be good at trying to kick a man when he's down, Richard... you wouldn't try it when he was standing up....

Just to reply to point 4 Clipper - I didnt say that at all, I am saying they are the main characteristics of a racist, amongst other things. It certainly a better definition than calling someone a racist who 'only makes racist remarks", that's for sure. And believing you are superior to someone would obviously fall under the auspices of using that as a criterion to stop an individual from getting a job because you don;t like the race they belong to. And I'm not the one singling out white Australians as the only racists, you just need to look a little further into comments on here made by good old Les and Richie to see who are making that assumption...

by the sounds of it Jackson, you've lived for many years in both Brazil and NZ as you seem to be somewhat of an authority on it. So, you're either old, you haven't lived in Australia for long, or you are basing your facts on bedtime stories your dad used to read you....

let's try it again for you, Les, as it seems it might take a while (if ever) for you to actually be able to catch on to anything. Yes, I am talking about your Chineses heritage, as you were the one that bought your heritage to this debate. Have you done anything constructive or got up on your soapbox anywhere about the plight of the Tibetans or the Dalai Lama like joined the "Save Tibet" lobby group? I bet not. You were the one who has bought the racism tag into the debate, and actually show me where I have stated anywhere that I believe the words "black c*&t" aren't that bad, and that I support Johnsey?You won't be able to, Les, because all I've been doing is picking holes in your flimsy arguments and definitions and all you do is what you and your mate Richie can do, try to tar eveyone with the same brush as 'racist' when the remainder of your argument is shot to pieces.... You can call him all the names under the sun for all I care, Lesley, I don't get sesitive and run and cry in a corner. In relation to words, was only proving that you don't know, and never will know by the looks, what racism actually looks like or how it is defined. Do I need to keep rebutting your uninsightful and ludicrous comments, Les and Richie boy before you finally wake up? It will probably never happen, you've got your caped crusader roles down pat, and the 'saviour' of all the oppressed to let truth get in the way of your narrow ideals....

You are an absolute fool, Jackson. Of course they would have to identify the race/skin colour of the perpetrator here in Oz, it's a defining characteristic in the minority here, instead of saying, 'well, officer, he was 6 foot, 1, curly black hair, and... that's all I know'. You are a wally old son, I would also believe they never caught these so called "afro-brazillians" either.... I love it when you lads show the depth of your arguments by making stupid comments and anecdotes....

Hear hear, Richie Rich!!!! I rest my case as well about morons like you who try to tar everyone with the same brush with generalisations - your comment above speak volumes of what goes on in the air between your ears - if you would look at anything I've said you would not be putting me in that little group, nor have I defended what Johns has said. I have simply been picking holes in your ignorant arguments and making the point, like yourself, Les, and clipper have done all by yourselves, that your arguments do nothing but serve to point out that you are sooks who only further reinforce what you actually believe is the problem here - division between races.