How much can New Zealand get away with?

Harry For some reason it seems I can't reply directly to your latest response so this might come out on top in order. You are correct that you are not whinging. I do apologise and unfortunately I didn't see your earlier comments. The whinging I am really referring to is mainly by the one that started this whole blog and others that have jumped in. Makes you wonder if the initiator just wanted to up the traffic on this web site by sporting 'controversy'. Well, we have all willingly obliged! However, I do still see red when folks mention Wayne Barnes and kiwi whinging regarding his performance. "All fair enough EC until your final line of “creating another Wayne Barnes fiasco”. Says who apart from the whinging Kiwi’s?" It burns me that others won't acknowledge that his performance in that WC game was one of the biggest howlers ever! Talk about refs influencing the outcome of a game particularly on the largest rugby stage. Happens all too often. I remember watching the Bok-France semi in 95. France should have won that game except for the ref's (can't remember who) decision. Even then, collapsing a scrum on your try line 3 times was pretty much an automatic Penalty try. Guess what, the Boks did that in the last minutes of that game to France and low-and-behold, No obvious penalty try called, no France win, which the try would have given, and no French final against the ABs. The IRB would certainly would have made more money & marketing from an SA vs. anyone final right in line with the politics in SA at the time that the world was watching. Hell, they've made "Invictus" 15 years later! You have to think it was mighty convenient for the IRB that they were there in the final and won an unlikely victory! Not saying the IRB were behind the ABs food poisoning but makes you wonder as well.... That is why "strengthens my belief that Paddy set Wayne and the ABs up last time around…" was included. The IRB is interfering at a game level through their instructions to/manipulations of the refs. It seems that if the teams don't do themselves in the refs are there to help with the IRB's game level manipulations. This is done to make the most bucks by having the greatest tv coverage for the finals, with a particular bias, it seems, against a certain nation who, lets face it, has the smallest tv viewing audience of all the top rugby nations by far. So I predict a Southern vs Northern hemisphere final, most likely not including ABs. Hope I am wrong and that the teams that should be there, are! Yes, I am guessing ABs will be there based on their current form, may it continue through the WC (we live in hope)!

Apples and oranges Harry. We are talking about a WC quarter final vs a 3N match. We are talking about a team that lost by 2 points, had a 12 – 2 penalty count against it (after dominating possession?), including a blindingly obvious forward pass directly resulting in 7 points and a dubious before that yellow card. The scenarios couldn’t be anymore different. If you are livid enough with what’s happened to the wallabies this year – I cant imagine how you would feel after something like this

Sigh ... specially for you PW below is extracts from my post regarding my views ... Harry said | August 8th 2010 @ 4:37pm (4 days ago) | Kaplan has had some shockers in the past but I thought last night he was very fair and to me didn’t seem to favour either team or give anything massively controversial that favoured either side. I will criticise him for letting both sides stand offside all night, but was even handed about it. As to Woodcock, we’ll see if he gets cited or not, and leave it at that. No doubt the better team won fair and square. Less whinging please fellow Australian fans. And … the Kiwi’s have been a bit lucky with the cards this year (compunded by the poor Oppo teams inability to take advantage of it) so it could be the cards may fall the other way during a certain tournament next year … not unknown to have happened before is it?" Can you let me know where I'm whinging PW? And can you not see the inconsistency between accusing me of whinging about refs and writing, and I quote ... "Anybody with any knowledge and ability to reason knows that Barnes performance was an absolute shocker. No question about it. The greater irony and shame for kiwis is that the head of the IRB refs, Paddy O’Brian, defended his appalling performance while in effect ‘firing’ Barnes for the rest of the cup... It just strengthens my belief that Paddy set Wayne and the ABs up last time around". Anyway I truly hope this whole ref controversy and accusations of favouritism inconsistency, incompetence and bias goes away soon, and stops detracting from what is some high quality test rugby, particularly from NZ, that is being played in this year's 3N.

Are you trying to claim that the Wallabies lost because of Kaplan? There are 2 schools of thought regarding Barnes shocker. The ABs should have one that game despite his atrocious performance on that night but even over here we have to admit they were not good enough. However, if Barnes had performed as he was supposed to they would have won. Win the world cup after that, highly doubtful. If you are talking about consistency, I fully agree. SANZAR and the IRB say they respond to a performance on a per game basis. Personally I believe the IRB (and hence O'Brian) have played fast and loose with the rules and interpretations. Kaplan used to be the best ref hands down until the IRB really got stuck in. Then Kaplan and many of the other decent refs started only to ref certain portions of the game and/or seemingly one side only. Reffing as it stands for now as far as I am concerned has only at best improved maybe half way to when things were good! There was a certain Wayne Smith from an Aussie paper who had a shot at Kaplan before the game and apparently Kaplan was 'aware'. Result - penalty count for ABs was much higher than the Wallabies. We could complain about some of Kaplan's obvious blunders such as 2 'missed' wallaby knock-ons right in front of Kaplan and one particular call against McCaw for coming in the the side when he clearly drove through the middle. However we have overlooked those because the ABs won. Should Woodcock have been carded for his hit on Fainga (spelling ?). Definite penalty but what are the rules about a card in that situation. Dangerous play? He didn't hit Fainga head high or in the lower back but across the shoulders. A bit mean perhaps but Woodcock thought he was clearing out a player who was 'interfering' and we have seen similar or tougher legal hits/clears in general play for similar reasons. Would it have made a difference in the game? Perhaps but it was 15 on 15 and they weren't able to win. Kaplan did not have a shocker by any means. This is where we are getting annoyed with thoughtless statements. The Wallabies still had a better than even chance to win. Right now the ABs and Wallabies are the only ones who seem to be understanding the latest rule changes/interpretations, at least better than others. If you are wondering about Mitchells send off last week, so are we. Nobody saw his tip-tackle, not the kiwi commentators, tv crew and I suspect the fans. For the life of me I thought it was Kaplan who pointed it out to the ref but someone else was named as the snitch and apparently punished by SANZAR. You have my full sympathies and agreements there. The fact he was red carded as far as we are concerned detracted from the game. However, under the rules, two yellow equal a red and the second one was a no choice under the rules. Both teams were given a final warning re slowing the game down. Them are the breaks. I heard a suggestion that red cards should be eliminated and think that may be a good idea. So feel agreived by all means but stop whinging. Let us also all join together and get rid of the IRB and have something that is run directly by all the unions that are participating in the world cup. After all, the IRB is a private interest that is only in it for profit and not the rugby!

Hehehe Jerry, that's a fact most Kiwis I know tend to forget (including me). In fact it was brought up last Sat night by a fellow kiwi who nearly shot me when I stated I like the way Kaplan handles the games. I consider the refs the true fanatcis fo the sport, I mean would you seriously want to be involved in a game where you never get to score, handle the ball, tackle, are the only player on your team, & the best thing that can be said about you is 'you didn't c**k it up' ???

It wasn't that bizarre, the final 3 minutes or so were after time was up - ie, there was no break in play (other than a penalty) to allow for full time to be scored.

"strengthens my belief that Paddy set Wayne and the ABs up last time around…." Thats beautiful! PW, can you really not see the inconsistency here in you lot labelling us as whingers (rightfully, see my post above) for the last few tests and then claiming Paddy O'Brien "set the ABs up last time around"?

Another one not using his brain. What a surprise. I wish Wayne Barnes and his particular performance on that night in that play off game on Australia during the next world cup. With Aussie playing the part of the ABs of course just for your dismal lack of thought. It is unfortunate the Wallabies and their more decent fans should suffer because of you. Anybody with any knowledge and ability to reason knows that Barnes performance was an absolute shocker. No question about it. The greater irony and shame for kiwis is that the head of the IRB refs, Paddy O'Brian, defended his appalling performance while in effect 'firing' Barnes for the rest of the cup. However, since then Barnes has put in some very good performances. Barnes was one of the best in the NPC last year when he reffed a one-off game. It just strengthens my belief that Paddy set Wayne and the ABs up last time around.....You should hope that it isn't be the Wallabies the next time.

pothale one of the kids in my U11s team got penalised for doing exactly that on Sunday. They tackled someone, managed to stay on their feet, the tackled player wouldn't release the ball (his arms hadn't hit the ground) - all great play, and we were on our feet trying to get it off him. But we were penalised for not letting the tackled player play the ball.

All fair enough EC until your final line of "creating another Wayne Barnes fiasco". Says who apart from the whinging Kiwi's?

The insinuation by posters here that the All Blacks employ illegal tactics is a sure fire sign that propaganda lives. NZ play the ruck as straight up as anyone. To suggest they dive in is absurd. Good cleaning out requires people to run in low and fast. Doing that in the vicinity of strewn bodies leads some players to tumble. That's called 'falling down' and the IRB hasn't yet outlawed gravity. This carping on about New Zealand's illegal tactics is extremely poor form. It's lying with the intent to have them unfairly policed. One of the biggest breakdown transgressors that ever played was Australia's Phil Waugh. The guy spent his whole career bridging and burrowing. Yet he got away with it because, frankly, the world didn't need help from the officials to beat Australia. The real dishonesty in this game belongs to those who perpetuate cheating myths. Obviously a lot of it is simple whining from ignorant people who don't understand the laws and can't figure out why their team is losing. But it seems there are quite a few who are intent on biasing referees in the hope of creating another Wayne Barnes fiasco in 2011.

I thought Kaplan had one of his better games in the middle for some time. both sides where as guilty as sin infringing at the ruck area, so Australian's shouldn't be whinging at all. One very strange thing i noticed. McCaw came over the top and smashed Pocock right in the ear with his elbow drawing blood. this looked intentional to me. This is the first time I have ever seen McCaw do something spitful on the rugby pitch like this! could it be that Pocock was really getting under his skin? honestly I think that was the best thing I saw on saturday night, the old master really being rattled by the young bull!

I suppose it all depends on which colour glasses you are wearing - the Wallabies were off their feet in about every ruck in the game. If an AB goes off his feet - often because of the strong driving behind him - they always seem to get pinged - Poor old McCaw is often pinged due to that. In cases like this it always seems unfair that a ruck with 4 ABs driving forward against 1 opposition gets penalised.

Mike, SA supporter never Jacko, your spot on. Whinging wont win anything but a bad name,ask a Pom

Australia were lucky that forward passes were very strictly policed - just a week late unfortunately. And yellow and red cards and suspensions were dispensed with common sense - again just a week or two late. Players in the team from New Zealand know (or should know) that they have been lucky. Luck comes and goes. The other truth is that if Wallabies were strong enough and confident enough, experienced and angry enough they would be prepared willing and able to beat any 15 AND their luck, whatever the whim of a Kaplan or a budget Kiwi linesman.

Now that was bizarre - Kaplan played 7 minutes of extra time...And there was no way there way 7 minutes of injury

Luck with the referee is like the tide. It comes - it goes. On my first visit to NZ I was introduced to a South Island farmer. Straight after "Hello" he was into me (the Aussie who had just turned up)about Eales winning penalty kick after the bell in 2000. "It should never have been a penalty" he whinged. It's not just an Australian characteristic.

As a wallaby supporter I'm sick of people bitching and moaning about refereeing. If we're good enough we'll beat the team in front of us and the ref. Enough already! A big improvemnet in performance for sure but not good enouigh on the night. To beat the AB's you need to be very focused, clinical and as a kiwi supporter said "just get on with it". People seem to forget they are the best team in the world for a reason and it aint beacuse of referee "favouritism". Constant moaning about ref's make us sound like your average plane load of poms that just landed in sydney! I'm concerned my fellow aussies are getting too freakn soft in the head. Moaning and groaning will not re-capture the bledisloe cup - hard bloody work and brains will.

how about shoulder charge

You sound like a SA supporter - get over it