I got some of these ideas from reading comments in another post and I just went from there. Sorry if it seems like one big comment, but I just thought it was big enough to have its own post and a new conversation.
In thinking about the depth of Australian rugby, it only takes about three minutes to come to the conclusion that we need a third tier of rugby in Australia that improves the overall standard of the game and eventually could generate some sort of income for itself. There needs to be more incentive and avenue to follow professional rugby. There needs to be a higher standard of rugby played below Super rugby.
At the moment the only interstate rugby below Super rugby for open ages is the annual Brisbane vs Sydney match. This is basically a game no one cares about. And that’s part of my point. Don’t set up things run by the clubs. And don’t set up half-hearted efforts. Some ground work needs to be laid for a competition that has humble beginnings but doesn’t have a bottleneck for growth in it.
I know it’s not comprehensive, but I’m sure something like this would have potential. Here is what I’ve come up with:
ARU sets up a third tier comp that could be a sort of Champions League. The clubs from each top grade side in the states that currently have a Super rugby team would participate in the next season’s competition if they performed well enough in their local competition.
It could be called the Australian Club Rugby Championship or Champions Rugby or something along those lines.
Set up:
In the first instance it could consist of this many of the top placing sides from each state:
3 NSW sides
3 Brisbane sides
2 ACT
2 VIC
2 WA
The competition would be broken up into two pools of six teams and a home and away series played.
In the semi finals the winner of Pool A plays runner up in Pool B. The winner of Pool B plays the runner up of Pool A.
The winners play the final.
The games would be played on a Wednesday night through out the normal rugby season.
Each team hosts five home games and travels to five away games extra each year – and possibly finals. That is a substantial amount of playing time for each club to promote team activities and give rugby fans some midweek rugby to attend and watch (more on that later). It would be up to each club to be able to make the most of these opportunities in the way that suits their fan base and club culture. But the ARU could help make sure the competition as a whole is promoted well and given air time in the relevant neighbourhoods.
It would take a few years to develop well. But it would lift the standard of rugby across the board.
VIC and WA would probably lose a lot of games to start with, but it would create a benchmark that would give them experience and exposure against better clubs. Also if this competition was in place the fringe players of the Super rugby squads could play for the clubs in their home capital. In fact the ARU should make that a requirement.
Coaching:
This competition would increase the base of highly professional coaches in our code in Australia. The coaches would be real managers and have to be able to implement varying game plans as well as coach up the fringe players in their squad to make sure they have enough players to get through the season with extra games. It would take a lot more commitment and skill than week to week premier rugby.
Funds and Administration:
It would enable clubs to find national exposure sponsors. It would help the clubs financially this way. There would be extra games to entice crowds too. Who knows, maybe even a few of the stands would be full for the marquee games in a few years time.
The competition could be broadcast live on the net until a TV buyer finds the money to invest in the broadcasting.
This is a crucial point. The next generation of people we need to encourage watching sports if we want to expand our fan base are internet people. They socialise and meet through the web, they are entertained on the web they watch TV on the web. It is also a good way to have control over the substance provided in the broadcast of initial competitions. We don’t need to hand control straight to a network – a standard can be set at a high level. The feeds can have the option of just crowd noise, referee noise and the commentary all on or off depending on user preference.
The administration of the competition could be run by the ARU. The ARU would put up a monetary prize for the winner. They would also cover a percentage of the costs for extra travel. This would help the clubs take it seriously.
Wind up:
I’m sure there are about 50 places that could be highlighted throughout my proposal to mark a mistake or weakness. But I think the general idea is there. This is by no means a quick fix. It is not meant to generate a huge amount of money immediately. But it will slowly increase the level of participation in rugby, the eyeballs watching rugby and the supporter base of our clubs can be utilised and even expanded. We don’t need to hand control to the clubs – but we don’t need to fight them either. This is a basic (not wholly thought through) solution that would begin to strengthen our national rugby landscape.
1st Grade club rugby could potentially become a much more professional standard if we want it to. We just need to take steps like this to encourage that growth.
Elisha Pearce
Expert
Brett, Sheek. The possibility of a Heinieken cup style tournament would feed both of your needs. Keeping the ARC Australian but at the same time including some of the international flavour. That is part of the appeal of rugby and I dont think should be discounted. Champs league at provincial level?
Elisha Pearce
Expert
That could be a smart option. One of the main sponsors would have to be an airline. Cheaper flights might be a good thing to help this get off the ground?
Elisha Pearce
Expert
You have a point there. Get to the central coast before league do! Play the semi and/or final at Blue Tongue? Id go.
sheek
Guest
Sorry Brett, This is what happens when you raid on The Roar - quick in & out! But I still feel the same way. If SR fell over, we would have the option of either an APC or ARC. I think many of us Aussie rugby fans would love our own national domestic comp.
Joh4Canberra
Roar Rookie
Fair enough. The grounds you list would be OK for night time TV games. But others were suggesting grounds like Rat Park and Coogee Oval and St Mary's Leagues Club. I doubt that these grounds could host night TV games without a significant upgrade to their floodlighting (which can of course be done -- but it would cost money and people in this thread are talking about trying to save money).
Brett McKay
Expert
I'm only thinking as a replacement for the S15, Sheek, whether that meant the NPC & ARC were played beforehand with say, the top 4 from each comp going into the HK/TT stage, or something. Just hypothesising really. Talk of TT comps tends to go hand-in-hand with SARU threats to disband SANZAR...
sheek
Guest
Brett, I say NO. Let the Kiwis have their ITM Cup, & let us have our own ARC. Perhaps the two winners can play off for title of 'Trans-Tasman Champion'. The way I see it, there are 3 key components to the ARC. 1. A tighter, tougher, more relevant, professional breeding ground for future Wallabies. 2. A national vehicle to bring in revenue & showcase the game in order to attract new players, fans, sponsors & revenue. 3. It should be Australia only. This is a key point of difference with super rugby.
sheek
Guest
J4C, I'm not talking suburban training training grounds. North Sydney Oval, Concord Oval, Parramatta Stadium, Brookvale Oval, Manuka Oval, Ballymore Park are all mid-range stadiums that could be utilised. Obviously, the ARC doiesn't need to be played at the SFS, although playing at the new rectangular Stadium at melbourne might be necessary. I suppose I should have clarified "smaller stadia where possible & within reason".
Oakie
Guest
Agree, the question you have to ask is what has SR done for rugby in Aust? has it made it stronger, no, has it made the Wallabies better, no. One of the biggest problems is once the last Aust teams exits most people loose interest, also a lot of people I know that like rugby but don't follow it all the time ( because its not free to air tv ) don't have a clue where most of the teams evan come from, I would love to see the end of SR.
JF
Guest
The players will come from the same place as they did when the ARC was attempted. Any national competition would be played after Super Rugby, so its not 5 + 8, its just 8. Surely we have enough players in Australia plus willing internationals to get 8 teams together. Yes, money is the real issue. Hopefully someone at the ARU can show enough leadership to get it done, at the moment we are trying to play test cricket without a shield competition, it is not sustainable.
Atawhai Drive
Guest
JF, the New Zealand provincial scene consists of the ITM Cup (14 professional teams _ Canterbury, Taranaki, Hawkes Bay, Wellington et al) and the Heartland Championship (12 teams, strictly amateur). But let's not quibble about detail. No matter how many elaborate castles in the air are erected, it all comes back to players and money. Where would all the players for these extra teams come from? And most important of all, where's the money coming from?
Matt
Guest
From a NZ perspective a 3rd teir Australian comp should not be the aim. I loved watching the ARC in the one season it existed. The added number of teams introduced a whole new flavour of youthful enthusiasm. Everyone was excited watching kids like Quade Cooper and Kurtley Beale make the step up from school grades. But a 3rd tier means you need to create new entities and find new money to fund them. Currently the VAST bulk of SANZAR money doesn't come from Super rugby at all. It comes from test match rugby. Super14 barely pays for itself and has ZERO private investment. So scrapping these artificial franchises isn't all bad. The Currie cup has 8 Premier teams, with 6 in the second tier. The NPC has 14 teams (soon to be split into 7 and 7). The new Super 15 will have 5 franchises in each nation and already South Africa want a 6th in place for 2013. Western Syndey, the Gold Coast and NZ's Central North Island (Taranaki/Hawkes Bay) beckons for new sides as well (with all applying for the 15th license with decent quality tenders). So why try to find new funds to create new teams and then cram them into a late season window (after the lengthy S15 and 4 nations)? Why not build on the Super 15 conference model and just add: 2 more South African teams (Southern Kings and Griquas) 2 more New Zealand Provinces (to include the 7 Premier League NPC sides) 2 more Australian teams (Western Sydney Rams, Gold Coast Aces). Then you'd have a 7 Team Currie Cup, 7 Team NPC and a 7 Team ARC. Promotion/Relegation could exist in NZ and RSA. This will provide a significant number of local debies matches (12 per season) in a stand alone national competition. Traditional provinces will be retained in NZ and South Africa (building on the value legacy there) and the competition will leverage the current support levels for the Tahs, Reds, Force, Brumbies and (soon to) Rebels. So the money and support will already be there for the teams. The next step is to find more money/media interest. The answer is of course Japan! They already have the well sponsored Top League and a massive wealthy population. The JRU and IRB will also be looking to cash in on the 2019 WC and to grow the profile of the game in Japan and Asia in general. What better way to leverage off the WC hype and create a legacy than to have a Heineken Cup involving the SANZAR provinces and the best Top League teams. I'd suggest 4 pools, each with 4 teams (1 from each nation) playing 3 home and 3 away games each. Top 8 (2 from each pool) in the finals. Each national union will take a cut for their National Team match payments. The rest of the TV money will go into the pot for the competiting teams. June inbound tour and 4 nations windows will be locked in, as will rules surrounding maximum game time per season for players. Then tenders will be taken for private investment in the Provinces. The new competition would no longer be a co-joined Super comp. It would instead be 4 separate Premierships, with a separate regional comp. All teams would have a foreign players quota of 5 in the squad of 35. This would be aimed at providing contracts to Pacific Island and Argentinean players to help strengthen their national teams.
Brett McKay
Guest
So if South Africa want out of SANZAR after 2015, as has been reported, can we renew the push for the Trans-Tasman comp?? 8 ARC teams + 8 NPC teams??
JF
Guest
By peeling back the SR, you immediately increase the value of the respective domestic competitions, especially now the NZ NPC has gone to a two tier system. This combined with the broadcast rights to the new qualification tournament would more than make up for the money forgone by eliminating super rugby. Ideally I would love to see each country working toward the ending of SR at the end of the current broadcast contract. The Currie Cup and Ranfurly Shield deserve better - Australian rugby supporters deserve better. It is my view that as long as the franchises exist, southern hemisphere rugby cannot reach its potential in terms of support, public interest and subsequent broadcast/gate revenue.
sheek
Guest
JF, As I suggested to TT, while SR makes the majority of money for SANZAR, nothing will change, no matter what many of the rest of us might think. I would like to see SR peeled back to a HC style format. But until a way can be found to still make money from that, it won't change.
Working Class Rugger
Guest
Atawhai For your information NZ and SA aren't the only countries with multiple tiers. England Tests, Aviva Permiership with an attached Academy League, Championship ( fully professional as well), Nat 1 South and North. France has Tests, Top14, Pro D2, Federale 1. Hell with Italian team entering the ML they have Tests, ML, Super 10, Serie A and Serie B. Very similar depth of competition to that of NZ with Tests, S14, NPC, Heartand, Club Rugby. SA are the exception as they do have a number of Tiers. Tests, S14, Cc Premier Div, CC 1st Div, Vodacom Cup and Varsity Cup. Australia on the other hand has Tests, S14, Club Rugby. We need at least one more provincial tier between S14 and Club.
Djrobinson
Guest
If Uni think they could win the ITM cup perhaps they should be admitted into the competition? Just for a season to see how well they do!
Joh4Canberra
Roar Rookie
Hate to sound like a party pooper but ... The problem with playing midweek games is that presumably they would have to be night games and the small grounds that people are suggesting probably won't have floodlights up to broadcast standard. The kind of floodlights at these grounds are designed for training sessions, not matches to be broadcast on TV.
JF
Guest
What is being proposed by many is vastly different to NZ and SA because they have several tiers of provincial rugby, Australia does not have the numbers to support this - we just want one tier of provincial rugby. In NZ they have two tiers of NPC plus the Heartland competition - 26 teams. SA have two tiers of Currie Cup plus the Vodacom Cup - 27 teams. We just want 8 teams - less than a third of what NZ and SA have. Club rugby is a tangled web of politics and vested interests - you will be waiting an eternity for the clubs to do anything toward establishing a national club competition, easier to negotiate a global carbon tax or peace in the middle east.
Atawhai Drive
Guest
Why try to graft an inappropriate limb on to an unsuitable host? In other words, why try to create a fourth tier in Australia? Only two countries on Earth have four tiers (for the purpose of the argument, club, provincial, regional and international rugby). Those countries are New Zealand and South Africa. New Zealand created its extra tier with the coming of the Super 12 in 1996, South African stuck with provincial teams for a couple of Super 12 seasons before going down the "regional franchise" route in 1998. In New Zealand and (white) South Africa, rugby is the national game and has first pick of the best athletes. Rugby is played everywhere in NZ and is not restricted to a particular demographic. Only soccer has a similar reach i.e. even quite small country towns have rugby and soccer clubs. League has its strongholds but is not present in whole areas of the country. In South Africa, rugby is played everywhere you have white people, with other races increasingly making their presence felt. Rugby in New Zealand and South Africa has the player numbers and the high exposure to make an extra tier feasible. In Australia, rugby remains largely restricted to NSW and south-east Queensland. Only in NSW do you find rugby played almost everywhere, and only in NSW does it break out of the rah-rah, leather elbow patch, private-school demographic (unlike south-east Queensland). Elsewhere in Australia you have outposts in northern Queensland, Melbourne, Perth and Adelaide. Corporate constructs like the Western Force and the Melbourne Rebels don't count . . . how many local players do you find in those professional franchises? And yet the calls continue for an extra tier of Australian rugby (significantly, this tier represents a step down from Super 15 level . . . NZ and South Africa created their extra tiers to meet the perceived challenge of Super rugby i.e. they represented a step up from the existing provincial structure). Why try to imitate NZ and South Africa? Why not look to England or France for inspiration? English rugby really only has two serious tiers _ professional clubs playing in the Guinness Premiership and in Europe, plus the national team, which won the World Cup in 2003 and came second in 2007. Should we aim for a national club competition in Australia, contested by the existing Sydney, Canberra and Brisbane clubs? I'd watch it, but then I don't have to pay for it at a time when Australian rugby is struggling on all fronts. The debate goes on . . .