To whom is my allegiance owed?

I take it you live in Australia, GB. If you do, take a second and think about the stupidity of your comment.

Some people, such as myself, have no choice. Born and raised in the country of their ancestors, there is little conflict of loyalties. Others, with mixed parentage or born or living in a different country to that of their forbears have a choice to make. But it's THEIR choice. The principle of "self determination" simply means that you make up your own mind based on the hand life deals you. And it also means that you shouldn't give a rat's ass what anybody else thinks you should feel. Leave it to that fine English song writer Morrissey (who like most great English song writers going back as far as the Beatles has Irish ancestry) to express it properly. "Irish blood English heart is what I'm made of. There is no one on Earth I'm afraid of!" Make your own choice, or choices, and don't be afraid of any other pillock telling you what they should be.

It is a rort. However, I did fulfill all the requirements for citizenship, passed the test (they actually give you 45 minutes to pass it, I did it in 3), no criminal record, lived here for 9 years, worked and paid taxes here (still do and will continue to do so). I don't know how everybody else's ceremony goes but at mine the Mayor of Oberon read a statement saying that assuming citizenship doesn't mean you have to abandon your culture, traditions or such like. I hope the government doesn't stop it and I will vote to keep it so.... I have a vote here too now.

Mate, you are the reason I can only hope our government has the collective balls to put a stop to such a rort. You admit it was purely to get an education, paid for by Australian taxpayers, and you no more repected the oath than fly the moon. That's akin to treason. You really are a nutta!

I worked in Sydney with an Australian guy that keep asking me who I support and so on. I told him I support the All Blacks and he went off his head saying that I live in Australia and I should support Australia. I told him he won't understand as he was not lborn or lived in another country like me. He still didn't get it but I support the All Blacks, Samoa and then the Wallabies in that order.

I agree. When I lived in NZ I would watch AB tests, big NPC matches and S12 like everyone else, but it was only when I moved to Australia that I began to take a deep interest (obsession might be a better description) in the game and especially the history of the game and how it evolved. Rugby was one of the building blocks of NZs national identity. Many historians point out two main events in the forming of NZs sense of nationhood: 1905/06 All Blacks tour and Gallipoli. My Great-grandfather served in Gallipoli, so I have some small personal connection with that event, but I would say that the All Blacks have had the greater impact in forming our national identity.

I'm Maori. Born in New Zealand. Moved to Australia at the age of 18 and have lived here for 11 years. I wanted to attend University and could not afford the fees. Citizens have the right to commonwealth assistance, so I became a citizen. This is the only reason I became a citizen. I have no compunction in exploiting my mercenary advantage. At the citizenship ceremony, I proudly wore my All Blacks jersey. I took the oath and sang Advance Australia Fair as required and fulfill all the responsibilities of Australian citizenship: obey the law, vote, defend Australia if required and jury duty if required. On paper I'm a dual citizen. I consider myself a Kiwi and always will. I always support the All Blacks and every other New Zealand sports team. I never support Australian sports teams or athletes against anyone, be they England, South Africa, Germany or what-have-you.

Fresh, I used to think as you do about Deans singing the Aussie anthem but after watching the post match press conference in Sydney I am beginning to wonder. Deans, pursed lips and all, going off about those cheating buggers in the black jerseys and how the adjudication in these matches is in their favour but they get away with it and good luck to them. He must have had a couple of beers with PDV whilst in SA. He really is becoming the charmless man and after that performance has surely wrecked any slender hope he had of coaching the ABs. Mind you, alongside Elsom he looks positively jovial ! As for the adjudication, no mention from Deans about the two Wallaby tries which came from ref errors. I suspect he has become an Aussie.

At times I feel like a modern day gypsy. I was born and raised in NZ of Samoan extraction who now lives in Melbourne with an Australian wife and family. When I travel to Samoa I say I'm going home, when I travel to NZ I say I'm going home and when I return to Melbourne I say I'm going home. I've never felt the need to take out Australian citizenship, I've lived here for 10 years and thoroughly love Melbourne but in my heart I'm still a proud Kiwi and it would feel fake to me if I became a paper citizen just for the sake of it. Dual citizenship is a different thing altogether. When I was a kid growing up people always asked if I was a Kiwi or a Samoan, my answer was always a Kiwi but fiercely proud of my Samoan heritage. There are times when I've basked in reflected pride and glory with being an Australian resident and it wasn't always because of sporting achievements but every day I read the NZ Herald and Stuff.co.nz online to keep up to date on news in NZ and I still vote in the general election. It's instinctive and natural to me. My love for the All Blacks has been nurtured since birth, strengthened by personal friendships and family ties with past All Blacks but even without that bond, they're still my team. My wife is a passionate Collingwood supporter and if I barracked for a rival team I wouldn't expect her to switch allegiances just because of me or vice versa. People often joke about what would happen if my boys take up rugby and are good enough to play for the Wallabies one day, I used to jokingly reply over my dead body but I've consciously made an effort not to unduly influence what sports they want to play or teams they want to support (my wife is not so altruistic and the boys will only ever support Collingwood). The way I see it is that my boys are Australian and proud of it, they'll also be aware of their mixed heritage from their parents and proud of their links to NZ, Samoa, England and Macedonia. If they're good enough to play rugby for the Wallabies then I will support and cheer them on as any proud parent would, but I'll still bet money on the All Blacks to win. My best friend has lived in France for 15 years and when we caught up recently I asked him the same question does he consider himself more French than Kiwi, he looked at me as if I'd just slapped him in the face and said that he'll never forget his roots and he'd only ever consider taking out dual citizenship but he'd never give up his Kiwi citizenship. Another old schoolboy friend is now a Brazilian citizen after living there for 15 years and starting his own family and business. Like most things in life, it's an individual choice that is influenced by different factors and circumstances.

I'm having the same issue with the Rebels and the Force being originally from WA. The test is watching the two teams play and just have an open mind. I did this the other day with the Geelong (my adopted Vic AFL team) and the Dockers (the first team I supported). In this case, I though I would be supporting the Cats, but it was defo the Dockers that my heart spoke for. I'm sure this will be the case for the Force for a few years yet, but no doubt if I stay in Melbourne long enough my allegiance will tip entirely to the Rebels. bayboy- sorry mate, but you can't tell people what they are and how they feel. If TF feels Australian, he's Australian.

You pick a team and you stick with them through thick and thin. That's what real supporters do.

I don't get it. I could only not support NZ if I moved at such a young age I didn't remember the place. I'm sure also come to love the team of my adopted country, but never over my own country of origin. I wonder how truly torn people like Quade Cooper or Riki Flutey feel? Obviously in Cooper's case, once he started playing in Aussie, he never had the option because of selection policies. But take someone like Ben Te'o in league. He has the option, but has pledged allegiance to Aussie after living most of his adult life in NZ. He's done so because he wants to play State of Origin, but I couldn't myself imagine choosing to play against NZ.

On such matters as which team you support, I don't think 'forcing it' has to be part of it. But interesting comment about Deans you make. Agree with you actually but then its his decision and if that's his decision well good for him, regardless of whether his motives are questionable from another point of view; On the other hand it may be a spontaneous outpouring for his present team and the country which gave him the opportunity?

Good point. I dont think you should have to justify by rational argument; I am always suspicious if you do, its fine to go with your feelings on such things. The reason for such feelings is up to the individual to figure out if they so wish. Got to say though that peer group pressure has never been a big forte of mine. Being in a group who is tolerant of who I might support is important though.

League's not a very good example, cause of State of Origin which is a higher level of competition and means a lot more to the players than test football. I'm not saying Hunt wouldn't have chosen Australia regardless, but there's a pretty big incentive for a player with dual eligibility to choose the Kangaroos over the Kiwis.

We were doing just fine before thanks, its been the last 10 years we have seen more kiwi's in the system that the wheels have fallen off!

No Jerry Isee you too have not read what i actually wrote either. If said person had moved as a child yes it is understandable that they can class themselve as Australian. However TF moved to Australia as a 21 year old well past his more formative years. I couldn't give a rats who he supports or what is allegiance is. What I was saying you can scream black and blue for Australia, China or the USA but he will always be a New Zealander.

You said it yourself your a nation of immigrants. You can never change where your from. Your piece of paper may say your an Australian citizen but you will always be from New Zealand. Bay if your Grandmother and yourself are so proud to be TRUE Australians why do you insist on referring to her as your Polish grandmother. You see because she is Polish first before she is Australian. Ironic MUCH

"So, given that I support Qld, if I were to support the ABs still, that would mean suddenly turning on the likes of Cooper and Genia during the 3N, after having supported them right through the Super 14???" This bit doesn't really make sense, to be honest. How is that any different than suddenly turning on the likes of Elsom, Pocock, Robinson etc come Super rugby time? It used to be a running joke with my and my brother that to us Zinny and Fitzy were lily white saints when when playing in black but turned into a pair of cheating c*nts when they played for Auckland. And presumably you'd have no problem not supporting Daniel Braid should be wear the black jersey again?