Will we see the same old from Old Enemy?

By Sam H / Roar Pro

This Sunday night’s clash between the Kangaroos and the touring English rugby league side marks almost two years since Australia ruthlessly demolished England in Melbourne during the 2008 World Cup.

Back then, hopes were high for an England squad dominated by in form St Helens and Leeds players. Ultimately, their tournament fell in a heap, with a sole narrow victory over PNG and rumours of damaging club-based rift amongst the playing group and staff.

Two years on, a quick glance at the tourists’ squad suggests that English hopes will be significantly lower this time around. The team that crumbled against the Aussies in 2008 featured some big names and big match experience.

The 2010 version is short on both, at least as far as the backline is concerned.

However, irrespective of how objectively bleak English prospects for Sunday night appear, over coming days the members of the English RL traveling press and fans back at home will no doubt feel that familiar surge of what-if optimism as the underdogs gear up for another clash against the perennially-strong Kangaroos.

While the on-field results typically don’t go their way, one thing is sure about the diehard English journos and fans who make the trip out to the southern hemisphere to support their lads: they are some of the nicest and most passionate rugby league people on the planet.

Two years ago in Melbourne, before the Australia v England world cup clash, I had the good fortune to share a few thoughts and a few drinks with a bunch of English columnists and commentators in town to cover the tournament – including the BBC’s legendary Ray French.

Before the game, the Pommy scribes and callers were utterly convinced that, despite the obvious gulf in backline class and the Kangaroos’ imposing record, their boys would give it a good shake.

And afterwards – despite the odd comment muttered into a half-downed pint about how things would never get any better – they were quick to credit the remarkable play from the Australians and have a bit of a laugh at their own expense.

This good-hearted optimism before the clash, and good humour afterwards despite the heart-breaking defeat, was a vivid insight into the underlying quality of one of the longest-suffering groups of RL fans around.

Compare the lack of grace demonstrated by some of their Australian counterparts. As recently as this week, the Daily Telegraph was deriding the English for having destroyed international rugby league.

Apart from that, the best they’ve been able to manage is the usual recycled non-story about the Roos being set to ‘square up’ with the Poms over a bit of niggle in a recent game (Wigan featherweight Sam Tomkins was really mean to Aussie forward Anthony Watmough in a game last year, dontcha know?).

Another thing that hasn’t changed much over the last decade are the on-field dynamics the England (or Great Britain) teams.

For the better part of the decade, they have fielded world class packs.

In the early 2000s, Great Britain teams were led by Andy Farrell and boasted true stars like Paul Schulthorpe and Keiron Cunningham. Mid-decade, they had world-class props Adrian Morley and Stuart Fielden at the peak of their powers.

Despite injuries to Morley and forward leader Jamie Peacock, England’s 2010 pack is spearheaded by the excellent Sam Burgess and Gareth Ellis, ably assisted by Graham, O’Loughlin and others. While these packs haven’t always performed, on paper the quality has pretty consistently been there.

The backs, however, are another matter.

In 2010 we are seeing the latest in a series of stop-gap scrumbase pairings, with this week’s press suggesting that England will shift young gun Tomkins to the back in favour of yet another untested halves combination in Luke Robinson and Kevin Brown. In years past, names such as Sinfield, Harris, Long, Deacon, Horne, Maguire, Burrow, Pryce and others have been shuffled around in high rotation, with unsurprisingly bleak results.

Out wide, experienced but limited old crusaders like Senior, Gleeson and Wellens have been replaced by a crop of young up-and-comers like Goulding, Shenton and Widdop – hardly names that are likely to send shudders through the Australian camp, yet.

While the new slate is encouraging, the reality is that although the English pack compares favorably to any other assembled in rugby league, the backline is a long way short of international standard.

Given the claims of soccer and other sports on England’s most talented young athletes, the dearth of truly world class halves and outside backs shouldn’t come as a surprise.

What is less excusable, though, is the ineptitude with which the playing talent which is available has been deployed over recent years. With the odd exception of games in which Kevin Sinfield’s boot has featured, England have been almost totally without a tactical or territorial kicking game of any note for years.

Time and time again they’ve been embarrsingly picked apart by Australian teams with standard NRL block-and-shift backline plays – with the 2008 world cup clash and the first half of 2009’s clash at Wigan prime examples.

As often as not, even their top line pack gets the fumbles and gives away soft penalties, unable to deal with the predictable Australian wrestling tactics in the ruck. Playing strength aside, these are all issues which could have – and should have – been fixed by now.

Hope, however, springs eternal. Despite similar limitations, England / Great Britain sides have scored some memorable victories against the Kangaroos in recent years, including a win away from home in Sydney in 2006. As recently as last year, they pushed the Aussies all the way in the Four Nations final, with the scoreline blowing out only in the last 10 minutes after both sides exchanged leads earlier in the match.

There have also been some crushing defeats, including nailbiting losses to an under strength Kangaroos side in 2003, an embarrassing flogging in the Tri Nations final of 2004 after dominating the tournament, and most recently the 2008 World Cup humiliation.

All up, over the past decade, England/Great Britain have won 3 of 17 clashes against the Kangaroos, for a wining ratio of around 17%. Pretty bleak reading, but arguably not as bleak as it could be.

The English rugby union side – with the largest rugby union player base in the world – has only a slightly better record against the dominant All Blacks over the last ten years, winning just 2 of its 10 clashes. Meanwhile, each of Scotland, Ireland and Wales have winless streaks against the All Blacks stretching back many decades.

The English RL side is going bad – but not that bad.

While victories against Australia have been relatively few and far between, the handful of memorable wins over the Kangaroos in recent times have come in the absence of many of the advantages Australian rugby league takes for granted, including the ready access to the country’s best sporting talent.

And while all indications are that Sunday’s match will see another entry in the losses column, you can be sure that most of the long-suffering, league-loving traveling contingent from England’s north will be enjoying a beer, a story and a laugh regardless.

The Crowd Says:

2010-11-02T10:14:17+00:00

Ben S

Roar Guru


Works for me.

2010-11-01T07:37:43+00:00

Sam H

Guest


Well, that went according to script. Some extra thoughts on the game (and the refereeing!) here: http://www.footyfootyfooty.com/2010/11/tim-sheens-it-still-doesnt-make-sense.html

2010-11-01T04:25:09+00:00

Springs

Guest


Well then England are ranked 3rd in Rugby League, so if they come 3rd, like they will in this tournament, they won't have underperformed.

2010-10-31T20:38:13+00:00

Ben S

Roar Guru


Actually, the English football teams hasn't ever really underperformed in any tournaments in the context of where the side was then ranked in the world. That's just lazy cliche. I'm not sure what you're referring to with regard to the education system either?

2010-10-31T20:36:03+00:00

Ben S

Roar Guru


That comment literally makes no sense whatsoever.

2010-10-30T12:20:40+00:00

Billo

Guest


Writing as an Aussie living in London, it isn't just in rugby and league that the Poms struggle. Just look at how they've performed in international soccer tournaments in the last 20 years. To understand why would take a greater brain than mine, although I guess that the English education system, which, until recently, has discouraged sporting competition, might have something to do with it.

AUTHOR

2010-10-30T03:22:50+00:00

Sam H

Roar Pro


Thanks JimC. The comparison with the RU backs is interesting. I can't say I pay much attention to the 15-man game but even the sucessful English team of the early-mid 2000s seem to be dominated by pretty staid outside backs (Robinson aside). Not that they needed brilliant outside backs to be sucessful. The playing stock is only part of the story though. With their solid forward pack England should have done better against the Aussies in over the last decade. Too often they've been woefully off the pace, tactically and perhaps psychologically. The constant procession of halves pairings is a case in point. They have some injury issues this time around but I can't remember the English playing the same halves pairing in consecutive games against the Aussies at any time since the 2003 Ashes series - maybe earlier. Even in the 2004 trinations tournament - in which they topped the talbe after the group games - they were farting around with their halves combination with Maguire, Harris and others. And for this game they've made something like 11 positional changes. Apparently the coaching staff still think that the solution to not having a particularly strong outside back combination is to shuffle the names and positions around as often as possible until you chance onto something that works. Meanwhile the players are all still trying to convince themselves that the Aussies aren't superhuman - witness Burgess and Ellis with statements to that effect today. Well here's a little secret: the Aussies actually aren't all that accomplished at playing test footy and have often underperformed at this level. Many times over the last 5 or 6 years they've been gifted games when NZ and England have just self-combusted. On the rare occassion that their opponents show enough nous and defensive grit to stay in the game the Roos can struggle. Sure, they've pulled off some great tight wins like in the 2006 Trinations prelims and final, and even under pressure in the 4N final last year. But for every one of them there is a 2008 world cup final, or a 2009 4N first round against the Kiwis, or a 2006 Aus v England in Sydney. After a decade of winning most games by simply waiting for their opponents to wilt, the Kangaroos often get rattled when someone sticks with them. If England can do the little things right - read and defuse the simple decoy plays, kick well, not give away too many easy penalties or dropped balls - they'll make a game of it. History suggests that these little things will be their undoing, though.

2010-10-30T03:11:30+00:00

Viscount Crouchback

Guest


Funny you say that, Karlos, because in '95, '03 and '07 RWCs, I could have sworn it was the Aussie boys who bottled it against England in the "big games"!

2010-10-30T02:15:28+00:00

bilbo

Guest


I think it is more that the faster, skillful players show their talent early - thus making them a target for several sporting codes - whereas forwards dont really mature until their mid twenties. Therefore, someone who shows a lot of promise at a young age will likely be snapped up by soccer - especially considering the existence of development contracts from the age of 12 and such. See the Toyota Cup for an example, as well as the prominence of Indigenous and Polynesian players in Australia/New Zealand, who tend to dominate representative sides as outside backs.

2010-10-29T21:53:46+00:00

jonny

Guest


wait if there so good or better why have the NH only won one world cup out of six...

2010-10-29T17:00:06+00:00

Richo

Guest


One if the underlying factors I believe has been mentioned- number of kids playing with ball in hand versus with there feet. The other factor is just like in union, players in key positions are imported. Players on there way down. Off course England can turn out a decent mute- some muscle bound drink machine but creativity isn't born it is developed, developed with solid coaching and thousands of hours putting your mate into space at school. -- Comment left via The Roar's iPhone app. Download The Roar's iPhone App in the App Store here.

2010-10-29T14:06:37+00:00

Karlos

Guest


My RU loving father in law from Newcastle England said pretty much the same thing as this article in that English teams in Union and League (he went further and said basically all sports) generally underperform when they get to the bigger games. His take was that seemed unable to combine as teams. I asked jokingly if it had to do with the Thatcher years making Poms to selfish and he said, "Good point." Oh, and I reckon sadly that the Poms will be lucky to beat the Kumuls. Lets hope I am wrong, then again it would be great for PNG to get up.

2010-10-29T11:43:48+00:00

Ben S

Roar Guru


Did you watch any of the Tests, Steve? Yes, the Lions backs tore the South Africans apart. That statement has no relevance to the final score. I do grasp the Lions concept, yes. What is your point? Why do so many coaches say to coach a winning Lions side is the hardest thing to do in rugby union? Is it because you have 30 odd players who all play under different coaches, and therefore different systems (defence, attack, lineout, scrum, re-start) and mould them into a team within the space of three weeks, or is it actually an incredibly easy task because you just throw the best players onto the pitch and they do the rest?

2010-10-29T11:34:19+00:00

Steve

Guest


tore South Africa apart???????????? How do you lose a series and tear a team apart. You do realise the Lions are for international sides gaining up against one and still losing.

2010-10-29T10:24:11+00:00

Ben S

Roar Guru


'NH rugby, league or union struggles to produce talented backs compared to SH rugby- especially given the vastly bigger population in the British Isles and France, compared to Oz, NZ and South Africa.' That simply isn't the case. The Lions backs tore the South Africans apart in 09, and the majority of the Test backs from Wales, Ireland and England are easily on a par with anything in Australia, if not better. Note I make no reference to New Zealand.

2010-10-29T10:22:40+00:00

Ben S

Roar Guru


The nature of the beast is different. It's only weakly comparable in terms of results. O'Loughlin at 10 (in union terms) and Cudjoe in the midfield doesn't fill me with awe. Shuffling the deckchairs is right. This could be painful. I'd wager that Australia win by 20+.

2010-10-29T04:12:00+00:00

JimC

Guest


Great article. Agree with virtually all off it. The comparison with RU and the All Blacks is valid. England vs Kangaroos is just as competitive as England vs All Blacks. Just as the rivalry between the Kangaroos and the Kiwis is demonstrably more intense than that between the Wallabies and the All Blacks -base on the past 5 years anyway. NH rugby, league or union struggles to produce talented backs compared to SH rugby- especially given the vastly bigger population in the British Isles and France, compared to Oz, NZ and South Africa. The main issue is soccer. In NZ or Aus (i don't know about SA) kids play touch rugby at playtime and hone their skills. In UK and France kids play soccer..... Also the vast wealth of soccer lures away too many of the most talented youngsters.

AUTHOR

2010-10-29T02:29:25+00:00

Sam H

Roar Pro


Ben S, I don't see why the comparison between the record of the home nations in RU against the All Blacks (the best team in the world) and England's record against the Kangaroos (the best team in the world) isn't valid. England have a poor record against Australia, no doubting that. But it isn't that bad - only marginally worse in win/loss terms over the last decade than the English RU team, which has far more resources at its disposal. And Ireland, Wales, Scotland haven't beaten the All Blacks for decades (has Ireland ever beaten them?). The point is a basic one: England's record isn't great, but it could be worse. Agree on the second part of your comment. The team namede for the Australia game today is weak. Yet another new halves combination - with O'Loughlin at 6. Shuffling the deckchairs.

2010-10-29T01:35:45+00:00

Springs

Guest


Good article. The English side is building for 2013. Evidenced by the fact that the majority of old timers have been kicked out of the squad the last few years. I wouldn't write them off against Australia just yet. The Kangaroos have a few players out and we are yet to see just how good they are without them. If the England team perform with pride and passion it bodes well for them in the next few years. And why do we call England the Old Enemy? Apart from sport England and Australia are traditionally allies.

2010-10-28T23:41:11+00:00

Redback

Guest


English League has dropped off and will continue too due to the strength of european rugby. I think the future of the top English league players will be in the NRL.

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