Wallabies: Fix that scrum, boys!

The other thing people often forget about is that going backward in a scrum ruins you physically and mentally. Robbinson and Alexander are still doing more than most props around the park even though they are get done over at scrum time. When the scrum improves you will see them do 10% more around the park because they will have more energy. Fainga worries me. I remember playing against him when he was a 19 (I was 29) playing for Tuggas. Back then he was a mobile hooker, now he seems to have put on too much bulk and has lost that spark.

Red Rooster, are you sure you have watched this footy, you must be either one of the current props, never played or a back. Dan Palmer doesn't make the 22 when all props are fit for the tahs, but we do have Slipper who will be a good test prop in a few years. I agree that the scrum comes down to a unit and all 8 need to be pushing together for the unit to work. But the problem is not the eight but the props, as they struggle to stay parallel during scrum time and when the pressure comes on they drop or stand so what do you do, keep them and hope for the best or use better scrummages. My pick is the better scrummagers, as SA and Eng in the last world cups showed that the best scrum wins WC

Barnes did also communicate the same to the Aussies, so I don't think that there was any intentional bias here. In general, I much prefer refs to be vocal and warn players before blowing his whistle - the fewer penalties in a game, the better. If a player is warned and then continues to infringe, then whistle him. Otherwise, let the player get back onside or let go of the ball in the ruck and let the game go on!

Meanwhile, there was more embarressing guff from those clowns on Fox Sports 'The Back Page' tonight. Hear Gibbo, Paul Kent, Billy Birmingham tell the moustached AFL guy that rugby scrums are: - 'useless', they should 'have them uncontested, change them to league scrums', 'scrums in union are almost a joke now anyway', 'NZ, Sth Africa and Australia play positive, running rugby because of the influence of running rugby', 'everyone in Northern hemisphere plays dull 10-man rugby' etc etc. God, those guys are ignorant! They should at least have a rugby guy on there to balance the panel out. But they very rarely do these days. Fitzy would have torn them apart tonight...

I agree totally GRS, there is absolutely no substitute for hard grind and technique. I agree with your comments about schoolboy rugby and uncontested scrums as well. there needs to be strong control by the ref but kids also need time at the coal face to learn the strength and skills required

Wow what a wonderful array of comments in this thread. I think I agree with the people saying the two Bens are just coming back from injury. I wonder if it's harder to come back from injury if you're a prop? I mean let's just say you're a back, and you're not as strong coming back from injury. That doesn't mean you won't have great vision, ball skills etc. Maybe it means you won't be at strong in the tackle. Do people remember Horan's tackling when he came back from injury? But at prop you're there first of all to scrummage. I can imagine a serious leg injury badyu hurting a prop ability to push, if he's not as strong. I just hope I see Robinson get back to his old form. We've had Stephen Moore as the world's best hooker in 2008, Robinson the world's best loosehead in 2009, and what have we now? A scrum that got dusted... completely dusted against Wales. I promise you, Australia will lose one game if they don't sort that out. After that dismal performance teams are going to be pathological in attempting to explit that weakness. They'll base their game around exploiting the forwards. England weren't given enough credit for how they targeted the Aussie forwards in 2007. I mean they didn't just demolish the scrums, but they made the game very scrappy and messy, and Australia didn't have a forward pack that day. It's creppy how similar that 2010 Welsh game was to the 2007 Welsh game. Wales nearly came back in 2007 before Latham's up and under, people forget that.

You would think that coaches at this level would be able to fix Australias problem with the front row. I agree that the 2 Benn's do not look match fit and are not in good form. James Slipper does pretty well every time he comes on to the field. What does a bloke have to do to get a start in the side, will he only get a start if injury occurrs? I also agree with other posts it is not all about the front row, the tight 5 need to get their act together. Noriaga is the coach he is an ex international prop why can't he get this scrum to perform. Foley seemed to have more success. Australian rugby has an endemic problem in that we don't contest scrums that often at teenage level. The moment one team starts getting dominated they go uncontested, instead of learning they take the easy way out and that's the reason we don't have a plether of senior props running around. I have coached juniors for over twenty years and I have discovered that technique will beat size most times and thats why I always from the start of every season spent considerable time with my front row teaching them technique. My teams never opted to go uncontested and I have seen them monster opposition packs outweighing them by 10 to 15 kg per man. We need to get our young props to spent more time as Dan Crowley puts it "gettting you head shuved up your ass" so they can learn how to play in the front row, not opting out with uncontested scrums that will satisfy some worry wort Mum, (my apologies to Mums). We have gone too soft, learning how to scrum you have to at first contest the scrum. It's like rucking, that has gone and one day we will see the demise of the scrum. Then we might just as well use a round ball and be done with it. Perhaps hitting each other with handbags will be better viewing for the general public and more genteel rugby fan.

Precisely right. It's all part of the dark arts and experience counts for the front row. The more they are exposed to such shenanigans, the better they become at their craft and the greater their ability to counteract the illegal scrummaging techniques of their opposition. That's half of what makes a good scrum.

It's only illegal if you get caught. Part of the art is to do illegal things without looking like you are doing illegal things.

Just because the english scrum is powering forward does not mean they are not employing every trick in the book of front row play. The more uncomfortable you can make it for your opponent the easier it is to shove him backward. I do agree that from the wallaby perspective they should bind tight, get low and drive hard as this approach cannot be any worse than what they are currently doing.

As much as I dislike all aspects of Ma'afu's game the loose play is the only part that is any good (and that is not great). Ma'afu looks like Beale when compared with Palmer on that aspect. Palmer is very limited around the field but probably the best THP in Oz in the scrum. No he wasn't a starter for the Tahs as Baxter is a better prop option because of Palmer's limitations. My point is that on the heavy tracks of the NH why select for mobilitiy when that will be limited in any event. Once Fatcat was injured Tillse was a first choice prop and is a very good LHP and OK THP. Fairbrother is first choice THP for the Farce as is Cowan (once they stopped trying to push him into a 2 jersey). Charles is first choice as was Fitzpatrick once TPN was injured. On top of all of that you have Kepu who was extremely strong against Fairbrother, Palmer, Dunning, Alexander, Tilse and a few other S14 props in the closing stages of the Shute Shield. He was fully fit and outscrummed Alexander, Dunning and co in their match up but was not selected in the squad, why? There are options that have not been tested in most positions and I do not see the front row as an area where we are limited to the extent we are in say the FH position.

It may not be as complicated as made out. It appears the northern hemisphere teams have figured out that while the Wallabies are so busy trying to play games at scrum time, they can just put their head down and use sheer collective power to disrupt them. The Wallabies just cant seem to understand this. It seems so ingrained in the Wallaby pschye that they must try some clever way to disrupt the opposing scrum, without worrying about their own stability and power 1st . The idea of sheer collective power has just gone out the door and they are being badly found out regularly because of it. All they have to do is KISS and put their heads down and go for it. Like the lineouts, they may surprise themselves when they put their mind to it.

The scrum is one of those dark places which are part science and part art. You can scrummage against a machine as much as you want but it won't prepare you for the myriad tricks and tactics of live scrummaging. Why? It's complicated to explain to those who have not played in the tight 5 or front row. Simply put, it is never the same twice in a row. Meaning that at each engagement the weight (or force) is aligned differently, the drive is applied differently, even the binding can be different (long or short depending on what you are aiming to do). Each situation has to be encountered and dealt with live, it isn't something that can be taught. The only way to learn is through 1000's of opposed scrummages during matches (opposed training scrums don't have the same value).

Gnostic. Ma'afu, loose ball skills and mobility, are you serious?The guy is a liability away from scrums and maybe in them as well. Plus most of the alternate front rowers you cite didn't even make the run on team for S14, so it isn't only Deans that doesn't pick them.

Too many look at the two Bens and say the best are getting humiliated so all Oz props are poor. The problem with the Wallabies is one of selection. Deans has consistantly selected props for mobility and loose ball skills first set piece second. Hence why we had a front row of Daley Finger and Ma'afu this year when at the same time available props included Tilse, Baxter, Palmer, Fairbrother, Cowan and Hookers Fitzpatrick and Charles. All I have named are better scrummagers than the former but do not offer the same around the field. You can get away with that 8 or 9 times out of ten on dry firm fields. However on wet heavy tracks why pick running props and hookers when that running is going to be hindered anyway. Horses for courses. I can see what Deans is trying to do, build a dynamic fast team in every position, the problem IMO is that the team is unbalanced and is unable to compete in RUGBY's set peices and any opponent who is able to defend effectively and pressure those set peices will be able to prevail.

Good for you Jameswm, however your tactics are illegal. If refs are awake they would penalise you for not packing square and "boring in".

It's a training thing. Many juniors practise their scrummaging. I had an ungraded 11s team playing against graded 11s teams this year. Overall their forwards were better (they picked the bigger, faster, more aggressive ones and I had just my 10 or so), but almost every week we were dominant n the scrum. It helped that I had a sensational scrummaging hooker (sensational everything in fact), but even we would have say the hooker and tight head pincering their hooker on their feed, or even our loose head and hooker pincer their tight head. Wales used the latter on Ben A. And it's not an uncommen thing. It helps screw the scrum and made it look worse than it was. That doesn't help us in the U11s because the scrum screw doesn''t create a turnover, but it does at adult level. We tended to have the tight head and hooker attack their hooker, and they'd retreat backwards. Against bigger packs who trained more. It's all in the training and attitude (and the locks' body height). As a fullback, I enjoyed coaching our scrum this year!

Thanks guys, thats very helpful!

Eric - myou can get a scrum amchine that does what you ask but it cost upwards of $60,000 and its difficult to pack given the Wallabies never are in the same city two weeks in a row. Aside form that its not the same regardless of how hi-tech the machine is I am told

Sam - you must be related to Fairbrother - I agree he is a solid operator but he played off the bench at the Canes and did a good job this season. I dont agree he is the best in the country nor was he in the best scrum in the country