New Zealand All Blacks’ player Dan Carter, left gets the ball away from Australia’s Berrick Barnes during their Bledisloe Cup rugby test (AP Photo/Andrew Brownbill).
If you think that an Aussie is writing this, you’re right. But let me hasten to add that the opinions expressed here are exclusively those of Kiwis I’ve talked to (ex-pats in London), so Wallaby bias plays no part in this post.
I wanted to hear what Kiwis who’d seen other ABs in the No. 10 jersey thought about Dan Carter’s place in the pecking order of the greats, so I made sure the panelists were all over the age of 40.
Of the ten fans I polled, five chose Carter as the best AB five-eighth, four chose Andrew Mehrtens, and one chose Grant Fox. The Mehrten guys thought that he was just as deadly a place kicker as Carter, but his running skills were much sharper, a point hard to dispute as Dan doesn’t often break the line in test matches.
They claimed that Carter is a little labored in his distribution, although some might say he’s simply relaxed. The Fox fan said that Grant was better at feeding his inside backs than Carter or Mehrtens, and that Grant pioneered a different, more effective kind of place-kicking technique which has since been adopted by most kickers everywhere.
The Carter people countered with their man’s great cover defence, the way he hares across the field to snare a ball carrier (sometimes a little too high). And the fact that Dan is superb punting for the line.
Inevitably, the talk got around to Carter’s world-wide challengers today. The panel was unanimous, nobody’s near as good today, although, looking back outside the ABs, they were sorry that Wilko’s test career is over as his great kicking and on-field presence was a highwater mark, and they had nothing but praise for Larkham’s ability to spot or make a gap.
But as for 2010, they thought it noticeable that there are so few good five-eigths on the scene. They admire Cooper’s torpedo pass, his sly offloads, and the ever-present running danger he represents for an opposing team but feel he’s flakily inconsistent. They figure that Steyne wouldn’t be playing for the Boks but for his boot, that Parks and O’Gara are there for the same reason, that Flood is coming into his own now that he has the confidence to run, that Sexton has the most potential in the NH, and that Hook, Jones and Trinh-Duc are merely serviceable. However, they fear a healthy-again Michalak and worry that he could come back to hurt the ABs as he did in the 2007 WRC.
In fact, Les Bleus bothers them. The recent thrashing they took at the hands of the Wallabies didn’t comfort them at all because everybody knows the French team is as dangerously changeable as a bush fire.
Still, they feel the ABs are in great shape for the RWC, and that all the talk about peaking too soon is nonsense as the team is still building and may see some surprising changes. Seven of the ten thought that SBW would not only play the important games at 13 but could turn out to be the ABs’ major strike weapon.
As for their main competition, six of them felt that the Wallabies will be the team to beat, the others were divided between England and the Boks, but all of them saw France as their main bugaboo. Even though the ABs’ record in NZ against France is 18 and four, France is two and one against them in the RWC, and that’s an uncomfortable thought, so they told me.
At this point an Aussie pal wandered up, and one of the Kiwis said to him, “Okay, mate, if you could choose one player from our team to play for the Wallabies, who would you choose?”
My pal didn’t even have to think about it. And, surprise, surprise, it wasn’t Dan Carter.
“Brad Thorn,” he said. “Give us Thorn and we’ll beat you every time.”
abnutta
Roar Guru
According to the rankings in a book published in 2003 called "Tribute" the best All Black first five-eights in ascending order were: Mark Nicholls Grant Fox Billy Stead Andrew Mehrtens The book ranked them from 1 to 100 with Colin Meads at 1. The judges were the doyens of New Zealand rugby journalism including Sir TP McLean, Lindsay Knight, Bob Howitt and the curator of the New Zealand Rugby Museum Bob Luxford. Obviously Carter wasn't ranked at that time but I'm sure given proper appraisal he would comfortably slip in above any of those names.
Doggies Reporter
Guest
Glenn - Just watched the 2004 Super Rugby final between Brumbies and Crusaders and if that was Larkham not kicking well we are harsh markers. Being on his home turf was an advantage of course but his kicking was not only pinpoint accurate but was tactical - rather than the usual kick for territory with little thought. He continually turned the Crusaders' back three around and gave them little chance to exploit an open field in counter attack. AHH and to watch him ghost through the defensive line of the Crusaders!! Big thanks to Foxtel for their "Rugby Rivalry" telecasts as not only have they shown the Final above but I have got to rewatch several Waratahs vs Reds games from the early 2000's
Muzza
Guest
SBW needs to attack the line. That last game he played was rubbish. Not once did he take his man on and defences read it. Hoping he learns how to have a go.
Muzza
Guest
Ditto
Fog
Guest
Yep, you have a point. Spencer in the Blues and the Blacks when they were on song was about as good as I've ever seen, especially the Super 12 2003 season. Mehrtens in various Crusader teams and the 96 Blacks was damn good and Larkham could make the McQueen system hum for both the Brumbies and the Wallabies like no other Aussie flyhalf before or since. Although that system could be disrupted by sheer talent. I remember a Brumbies/Canes game in Wellington when for the first 20 minutes watching Larkham put the Brumbies through their paces I thought it was going to be a complete rout. Within 15 minutes the game was taken away from them by the individual and then cumulative impact of Umaga, Cullen and Lomu. On its day talent will hammer a system (and is more enjoyable to watch). We were all lucky to see the three of them (Mehretns, Larkham and Spencer) playing at the same time. The current talent, aside from Dan, is still only approaching the foothills of those particular mountain ranges.
Jerry
Guest
Dunno about that, Fog. Larkham won a WC, a bunch of Bledisloes and a couple of S12's. Realistically though, you can look at all 3 and conclude that when they had the best pack in front of them, they were better than the other 2.
Fog
Guest
Larkham performed at a significantly lower level than either Mehrtens or Spencer at a Super or test level. Both have better records. He played well in systems.
Glenn Condell
Guest
Well, my favourite player, Steve Larkham, was better than Mehrts and Spencer. He saw them both off. But I think he was lucky he wasn't contemporaneous with Carter, who has the kicking skills Larkham lacked. Carter is the best, having all the skills to a high degree of accomplishment. Still, he has never been better than when he ran rings around the Lions in 2005. He's still good, but not what he was.
Frank O'Keeffe
Guest
So Dan has Dan Carter replaced Grant Fox as your selection for best All Blacks five-eighth ever? Your all-time All Blacks XV: 1. Wilson Whineray 2. Sean Fitzpatrick 3. Ken Gray 4. Andy Hayden 5. Colin Meads 6. Kel Tremain 7. Michael Jones 8. Zinzan Brooke 9. Sid Going 10. Grant Fox 11. Jonah Lomu 12. Bert Cooke 13. Joe Stanley 14. John Kirwan 15. George Nepia I forget the subs,
Fog
Guest
just as playing outside Nonu has provided Smith with opportunities other centres just dont get
Spencer
Guest
Not if you are South Africa.
JohnB
Guest
Although I though that was where Deans should have played him in his (Deans') last season with the Crusaders. And McCaw at 3.
Geoff Brisbane
Guest
Thanks Guido I reckon the Poms are building nicely only evidence is their style of play is definitely improving (also i been keeping an eye on their 7's team and they are not too shabby either). All in all I reckon they will be a real shot for the WC my outsiders would be Ireland and Scotland.
Ben C
Guest
"Does Carter deserve to be number one?" No. He doesn't have the build to play loose-head.
Bob
Guest
The thing about Carter is that he makes those around him look like world beaters. When he is not there, watch how bad Nonu and SBW can look. He's a very selfless player- but still manages to score heaps of tries.
andrew
Guest
The guy who wanted Brad Thorn was obviously only looking for a couple of wins. Thorn is amazing, but he must be close to the end. Give me Keiran Read, please. Truly, the Wallabies haven't had a quality number 8 for so damn long. Even Kefu was flaky, and (in my recollection, anyway) had a record of throwing at least one shocking pass in every game he played.
Guido
Guest
Geoff Brisbane - You ask my opinion re England's chances in the WRC. I get to London on business now and then, and I used to live a short mile from Twickers, so I've seen a lot of English rugby, but that doesn't make me a fortune teller. I was at the recent game against the Wallabies and was impressed by the fact that England are now running the ball after all these years. Well-balanced team. Cole, Hartley, Sheridan form a strong front row although Sheridan didn't have his stuff against the Barbarians. Extremely impressed by Lawes. Very athletic. Moody and Croft (get well soon) excellent flankers but have never been an Easter fan and wonder if Lawes would not make a great 8. In the backs, dangerous wings but Youngs is the star of the show. Flood is now a danger to run, and Hape is doing a good job. I would bench Tindall even if he did rob Genia of a crucial ball. I'd play Foden in the centres as he'd supply the speed and thrust that Tindall lacks. As for their chances in the Cup, it comes down to who they play in the quarters. I believe England will beat the Pumas and top their pool. I also believe it's perfectly possible that France will beat the ABs in their pool game (with France, anything's possible) in which case England will play the ABs in Christchurch and that will be all she wrote for Jonno's men. No way in the world the ABs will lose in the quarters (and probably not the final, either). Alternately, if the ABs triumphed over France, England plays France in Christchurch, and there I stop because nobody knows what kind of team France will field except it will be nothing like the one the Wallabies destroyed. It could be miserable, could be magic - we'll get more than a hint in the coming Six Nations. Bottom line for me is if England end up playing either of the top three SH teams I believe they'll struggle seeing as how they'll be playing in the SH. But whoever they play they'll be a handful.
Moaman
Guest
Geoff--You know my views(this far out)regarding England.Sure,they are a threat-but I'm pretty confident the ABs would run them ragged on most occasions,all things being equal.But what are YOUR thoughts???
Moaman
Guest
Agree with Sylvester that Carter doesn't attempt many droppies.........I used to think that dropgoals were a refuge for teams that lacked ambition or creativity.My views have changed somewhat during these barren years without snaring the Wc.I was interested to note that during the cut-throat ITM comp where teams were staring relegation in the face...more droppies were attempted-at least that was my perception.I would welcome an un-written rule in the upcoming S15 that NZ teams kick one drop-goal per match..to hone those skills for when/if they are needed!! Course it'll never happen but hey!
Geoff Brisbane
Guest
And England Guido???