Melbourne beat Tonga to start 'Rebelution'

Crashy. Not at all. Look, If you go to an international between Aust and NZ in Union. 50% of punters attending are Kiwi which is no revelation, since so many reside here. Conversely the same cannot be said of Bledisloe's fixtures held in NZ. This is a crit leveled by Rugby supporters at our indig code, while making forays into alien markets. What I object to is all that spin. presently the AFL acknowledge a lack of footy culture in expansion demos i.e. GWS, unlike the Rugby fraternity who continue to use hyperbole to create an illusion of some mythical culture, of their codes support in Melbourne. A bit like Kiwis or AFLNZ or WFN insisting NZ commands an Australian Footy culture based on some ancient history that lasted all of 15 years and was restricted to the South Island during their gold rush, patronised almost entirely by ex pat Aussies. The bottom line is that Kiwis never embraced our code and still don't no matter which way you try to pitch it. Even Sydney offered far more Aust Footy culture and cred to the AFL pre Swans than Unions ex pate community can currently drum up in Melbourne. The same was true of perth who relied and still rely heavily on membership and gate from expat Saffas and Kiwis which is not reflected insignificant grassroots growth of the code there.

No I agree in the main Paul. I am just keeping some perspective on that excitement you allude to, which is also about promotion through hyperbole and can be as much about what is not said as much as what is. I scrutinise GWS developments in that context and with the same fervor I assure you. More power to you and the VRU but keep it honest. Vic is no Union state by any stretch and that League continues to be an illusion at the elite tier of the game in Melbourne (with a membership that hasn't grown almost since it's inception) ensures the jury is well and truly out as to the real state of the Union in the deep south. Either way, Melbourne's Rebels will rely heavily on and share that ex pat Kiwi & PI patronage with League, hardly a reflection of the true sporting DNA of Melbourne a city of 4mill, let alone Vic. Nuff said.

tsk tsk. couldn't resist could we?

Let's be fair, Republican you raise some pertinent points. You make the objective point that AFL is clearly the dominant code in Victoria, and curries significant favour in other states. I don't think any reasonably minded person would disagree with you. That said, We're all clearly excited about the team, we've gone to the games. The only way is up. It's good for sport, its good for Melbourne. The Rebels themselves aren't looking to taken the AFL head to head. There not even competing with the Storm. In actual fact, they share halfback coach/consultant Andrew Johns. So you decide we needed a good dose of realism? I'll accept your pragmatism by the same token, accept our optimism and excitement. . I for one grew up (and still follow) Essendon. I remember losing the 1983 GF to Hawthorn, and then winning back to back in '84 and '85. I've been Melbourne Storm supporter since 1998. I have an original season 1 jersey signed by Glenn Lazarus and rode the salary cap scandal last year. I also support the Melbourne Rebels. So when you came out with this little gem: "Australian Footballs support base was far broader than that which the Rugby codes are now having to depend on in Vic or WA. The code of Australian Footy’s national domestic reach and status can hardly be compared to the struggling code of Union in this country" I suspect you came looking for another 'code vs code' debate. If I got that wrong I apologise, but if I got it right, leave us to our rugby obsession.

what are you scared of Repub? You seem unable to accept that there are Victorians who like and follow Rugby - heck Ted Baillieu played for Melbourne RUFC, is a Rebels member and is the flaming Premier of the state! Get over it WA has seen its playing numbers grow to about 15k since the Force came on board. Prior, they would have been lucky to have had 2k. It won't take over the world, but please accept that it can exist nicely in 'AFL' territory.

King Ex pats certainly do keep our game alive in countries i.e. NZ. Heaps of 'Australians' support and have supported the indigo game outside of Vic and it is a wrong to continue to perpetuate the myth that this was only ever a Victorian code. Sydney certainly needed some help but this did not come soley from ex pat Vics by any means as there already existed a healthy local grassroots in Sydney and especially in southern NSW, dating back pre Swans. Australian Footballs support base was far broader than that which the Rugby codes are now having to depend on in Vic or WA. The code of Australian Footy's national domestic reach and status can hardly be compared to the struggling code of Union in this country.

How very sanctimoniously PC of you crashy. I am not at all bitter or opposed to competing codes catering to any niche following that may or may not exist. I am however sick to death of the commercial lie that continues to be reinforced by this sort of nonsense and which is integral to the top end of sports growing their respective brands in demographics that have little or no affinity culturally for, in this case Union. To tag me with the 'R' word is an incredibly desperate attempt on your part, in denying that NZers especially, are over represented in Union in this country and especially in demographics i.e. WA and Vic. For heavens sake, even League in Melbourne after a decade or more of the Storms presence has stood still as an ex pat niche sport. This continued hyperbole that suggests their exists a great tradition and potential, in respect of the game of Union based on this recent 8K gate, which I would hazard to guess was predominately of ex part Kiwi and Pi patronage, is hardly cause for these sorts of sweeping statements in respect of the codes future in Vic. Ice Hockey in Australia also has a 'fan base' however this does not see it inherent to our cultural sporting psyche. I suggest that Union, albeit far better resourced and supported than Ice Hockey is, is far from being inherent to the Australian sporting psyche domestically speaking and especially in states i.e.Vic. So why all the excitement and exposure for what is a Kiwi centric sporting pursuit - Kiwis that's why. Yes, expats are represented all around the globe in respective codes which is true of our indigo code. I don't see the problem in stating the bleeding obvious, which is that Union's support base in the main, is expats in most demographics throughout this country and if certain individuals choose to quite illogically tar me with the racist brush for my sentiments - so be it. Cheers

Good point Jason what size crowd will a pre-season AFL match pull in NZ. I think everyone is agreeing that Rugby cant compete with AFL in Melbourne and it doesn't need too. Once the "code war defense" attitude goes away I find lots of Melbournians/hardcore AFL supporters are willing to go to the games, there is so much sport in Melbourne and its only due to the inhabitance preferring a variety of sports.

Thank goodness we have expats who support Rugby in different countries and regions where rugby is not known.. Good way to start a fan base.

Thanks Jason, the full reports are available at SARugby.com or the Rebel Army website (www.rebel-army.com)

'i would go so far as to say that Union would barely survive without the Kiwi diaspora to this country.' Having attended the Reds home games during the dark years of 2004-2009, I'd have to agree. The majority of the crowd were clearly expats wanting to see New Zealand teams play. 'So here we have a thread talking up a paltry 8k turnout to watch a game of elite Union in a city of 4mill. Give me a break.' It's not like people are claiming this to take over the state as the code of choice. There's a small, but keen market that they're catering for and targeting people who want to see what it's all about. the numbers are a reasonable early indication given they're only pre-season hit outs. I mean, how many articles are there on Australian Rules International competitions..? Give me a break.

Great report, thanks Paul.

but isnt that just like the early yeays of the swans and the brisbane lions? the crowds were made up of mainly ex-pat Victorians? who cares if ex-pats make up a large proportion. if it slowly means victorian born and bred people slowly come to the game, then that is brillant. no one expects to win over melbourne overnight, but dont belittle the people that do turn up.

It was a pre-season warm up game Republican not the AFL grand final. Last years pre-season warm up between Crusaders and Highlanders pulled a crowd of 2600… in rugby mad NZ.

Sorry for the deci bells, I have now put my caps lock on low p Tah. Simply Brett, this is a common pitch, integral to the top down corporate way to growing brands in demographics culturally indifferent to respective codes and by no means is this peculiar to Union. This opinion infers something that is actually a nonsense, creating the illusion of support in a demographic that has little grassroots cred or cultural affinity for the code as was so with the Western Force. Any semblance of Union support in Vic can almost entirely be attributed to expat Kiwis and PI's who flock here in their droves and who in my opinion are the main cause for the game not being extinguished here altogether. Union should have expanded to Western Sydney if it was to be true to those criteria of grassroots and historic tribal support however as we both know, this is no longer relevant in growing the elite end of sport today, which i continue to take exception to since these remain quite falsely touted, as a criteria to expansion, as in this case and with all major codes. Cheers and all the best for 2011 to you and your beloved Brumbies. Cheers i would go so far as to say that Union would barely survive without the Kiwi diaspora to this country. So here we have a thread talking up a paltry 8k turnout to watch a game of elite Union in a city of 4mill. Give me a break.

Crash, a quick disclaimer: I'm a member of the Melbourne Rebels and a member of the Rebel Army but will remain as objective as I can! I write for SARugby.com, you can see my match report there, but I'll endeavour to answer your question succinctly and as objectively as possible here. There was definitely an improvement on Game 1 at Olympic Park. Cipriani was slick, passing was good. Hilgendorf looked more than competent in the second 40. The forwards are looking the goods, the lineouts excellent, clear out particularly good. The backs seemed to have more structure, the set plays were sticking more and there's genuine pace in the outside backs. Cooper Vuna seems to be the bolter, and combines really well with Mitchell. Afusipa Taumoepeau's a big boy with plenty of dart. With Mortlock seemingly available from next week, someone's going to end up missing out. Chris Slade, who plays in the Dewar Shield ( the VRU's premier grade) seems competent but was slow in support late in the game. Its probably a fair demonstration of where Victorian players are in relation to others, probably almost as skillful but about yard behind the pace for now. Macqueen has spent the last 7 days hosing down expectation, but there is potential. That said, this Tongan side were missing their European stars so it was basically Tonga A. Fiji should give them a far closer contest, and then there will be the final hit out against the Crusaders at the new stadium on February 5th. I think its fair to say the jury is still out on the crowd. 8,000 + at Olympic Park was good. I personally was hoping for 10,000. Almost 4,000 in Morwell is far more impressive a number. For those who don't know Morwell is a regional centre 160km and a 2hr drive down the Princes Hwy into Gippsland. Anyone who traveled down there on a Friday afternoon for a 730 kick off seriously put in an effort to get there and the eclectic crowd were a mash-up of union, league and soccer fans who cheered in all the right places.

To all Pacific Islanders and kiwis who may have been at the Melbourne trial last weekend..... I personally apologise for Republican's offensive remarks that border on racism. Whilst rugby embraces its international appeal and long history, there are still some in this country who holds the view that codes can't exist in harmony. Repulican is a somewhat bitter AFL fan based in Canberra who can't handle other codes prospering. To think that your personal attendance being somewhat less important than a true-blue Australian (as we approach Australia Day) offensive. Paul Robertson - thanks for your reply with what seems like a great crowd for a country town - what were your conclusions from the game?

and why does it even matter Repub, surely a bum on a seat is a bum on a seat?? What's more important, 8000 at a rugby trial game in Melbourne, or to what country they hold passports?!?

Why are you shouting?

Yes Crashy, I was at the game last night. 3,853 at Latrobe City Sports Stadium (home of the Morwell Falcons). Two Victorian amateurs played; Chris Slade from the Melbourne Unicorns and Sam Nonu Jnr, from the Southern Pirates.