Why V8 Supercars has hit the skids in Australia

why doesn't someone do a series where all are welcome and as long as the parts are used in a road going version they can use them eg if it comes with a 2 litre turbo they can use it and go rank if it comes with a 8 litre v8 pushrod they can use it if it comes out with mcpherson struts they have to use them as long as they are safe and can be proven to be similar to the road going car let them go whole hog I know i would watch something that was truly based on a road car

Mike you are 100% right. I'm a biker, but I also come from a Ford Family; my father built a Modlel A dragster in the 1950s and we always owned Fords when we could, but the "fakeness" of the Aussie V8 formula turned me off straight away. I used to sit with my mates or family and on Bathurst day there would be a barbie and beers and we would cheer for our own guys (Dick Johnson and John Goss in my case!) and it was all good fun. As I read the article the only drivers names from now I recognised were Lowndes (link with the past) and Whincup. I have become totally disconnected from the sport, and I'm not the only one. The heydays were when touring cars of ALL TYPES were simply devided into capacity categories and there were no damn handicaps. DJ vs the RX7s. The V12 Jags going down Conrod. V6 Capris at Amaroo. all gone to be replaced by V8 pap.

Phil, V8 Supercars are not technically Holden or Ford anymore. neither engine is a production motor (holden don't make a 5.0 ltr v8 anymore and Fords have a different engine to the one produced (and Ford don't offer a V8 at the moment, you have to buy an FPV). They have the same wheelbase, which is silly, because the current model commodore is longer than the racing body, so much so, they've had to shorten the rear doors of the racecar that it won't fit on a production commodore. If fact, the racing commodore only uses a few parts off the shelf, the rest is either custom built or ford parts. they use a ford rear axle and front suspension, transmission is hollinger, diff is a ford 9 inch. panels are custom stamped to be lighter. I think the only production parts are headlights. as a fan of v8 touring cars, i'm opposed to this 'silhouette' racing model. i don't like nascar, and the alternative 'showroom showdown' format only lasted a few years before closing due to lack of interest.

just a point re the overseas races , I have been to them all and as of this I do have a different point of view than those that havent been there. if I hadnt been I probably would have shared the thoughts of some of the public. just a few facts or the general idea for everyones thoughts.----- 1.each of the tracks are so great for the drivers to experiance , they all mention that. 2.as spectators the same applies when your there. 3.dont forget it gives crews the chance to see the world also. 4.when at the cities we general see other sites as tourists as well so it includes as a holiday. 5.like at Abu Dhabi , I was advised that the teams earn more in that one race than four local races in Australia , ie it helps the teams budgets as well. Our teams pay NOTHING to get there remember. 6.crowd numbers are lower than in Australia obviously but a major point like in Abu Dhabi ,note there is NO general public access just Corperate and granstand , that is why you dont see the crowds. That track is limited to 50,000 people maximum, the ruler there doesnt expect return on investment , the track is there for his people to enjoy. It is all inside in the airconditioning. 10.dont ever think the tracks are quiet , speaking to the Bahrain track manager, that track has 375 events per year , fully booked out , they race and do many things at the tracks. Busier than any australian track probably. my point is have an open mind there are many things you wouldnt realise unless you went there , rgds Terry

V8 super cars are not relevant to young Australian car buyers and as such will die a slow death if allowed to continue. The 12 hour Bathurst endurance race is drawing more and more interest from overseas, proving a production series with a large number of manufacturers could give Australia a exciting and viable motor racing platform that could last for many decades.

The 70's/80's the' Golden era'?? Thanks to CAMS efforts the early 70's saw 1 to 3 Falcons aganst up to 17 Torana's in the first years of Group C. When 1980 rolled around there were around 10 cars on the grid of round one of the ATCC which 3 were Commodore or Falcons.The true golden era of motorsport was the 60's. Warwick Farm for example used to attract crowds of around 20,000 (condsider the cities population at the time), had a full programme including a premier open wheeler category, production cars, touring cars, sports sedans plus other categories and families would be out in their Sunday best, pinics and all!!! There were the stars of the day like Beechey, Geoghegan brothers, Bob Jane, Moffat and in February all the F1 internationals like Jochen Rict, Phil Hill, Stirling Moss and others were there in last season F1 machines. They didn't need to bring out dinosour music acts to bump crowd figures either. V8 Supercars might have a point trying to encourage the manufacturers it basically ignored after 1997, but silloutte programme will fail. A return to a better controlled Group C or Production Series would bring back the manufacturers or introduce some new ones, IF someone would get behind the promotion and publisise it.

Good point on the changing attitude of the Australian mind. The V8 thing is a remnant of the past. Kids who get into cars these days are into hot fours, not V8's and we could be seeing the result of that coming through.

I'll take your word for it that you intended no dis-respect against RL supporters there but really you could have mentioned any sport. I find it a little amusing that the hero's of my fathers era were made all the more colourful by the, probably exaggerated, stories of their exploits while now every little story is blown out of all proportion. I mean if he wasn't the 'man in the bowler hat' Johnny Raper would just be remembered as probably the best cover defender of all time.

We are producing some of the best motocross racers in the world too. Chad Reed left at 16 or 17 and now makes about 5- 8 million a year depending on sponsors and contigency. Of course we all know Chad Reed, but now Brett Metcalfe, Dan Reardon, Tye Simmonds and Ryan Marmont are in the US pulling off top ten finishes in the US Supercross (indoor) series with the MX Nationals (Outdoor series) coming this US Summer. If you have Foxtel you should at least watch an Outdoor round, even if you don't know much about bikes.

Im not the person to ask. I stopped watching the touring cars when the two manufacturer thing started. But is it two makes of cars? They both look exactly the same. Aren't the rules even made so they even the cars out so no manufacturer has an advantage (just what I heard)? Even die hard fans would find this boring after a couple of decades. But the big problem in motorsport isnt with the V8's. The national motorbike scene is woefully organised. Just how we keep producing world competitors is beyond me. But we don't, most of the ones that made the top go striaght overseas at a very young age these days, avoiding Australia altogether. Casey Stoner learned in Spain, and has raced at Phillip Island no more than anyone in GP.

MotoGP declining in Aus? I don't know about that. I went to the GP for the first time in 10 years last year and the crowd size had about doubled I reckon, and the weather was woefully bad. And the last point you make, its natural for societies to homoginise. People like doing what other people do. And most rugby league supporters actually like the behaviour of the sports participants, it's just the official words that condemn it. Most of the supporters act exactly the same - and that's not a derogatory remark against them, just an observation of reality.

I see that the decline of the category is being driven by a number of factors, namely how the fans relate to what they see, the intermittent nature of the races, an ambivalent attitude of the main stream media, changes in family structures and personal hobbies in that a lot of today’s youth have limited interest in cars, the gradual greening of the country, the relatively low level of activity at the race meetings, and the cost versus what you get on the day(s). Point by point: Howard Marsden was right when he commented on the appeal of V8’s to Australians, whereas at the time we mainly drove 6 cylinders. Some watchers still think they are seeing showroom available cars and I think that puts some people off as they do not necessarily want to be seen to be associated with a bogan brand “SS Commodore” or V8 Falcon. I think the main thing that is holding viewers is the personalities, however outside of a few such as Lowndes or Ingall, very few others have any “brand”, and are not that well marketed by the category, or either of the current manufacturers. Some of the races are too far spread apart. The category needs a regular timeslot both on TV, and at the locations to maintain profile, and to gather support in the media. Take the current scenario, the cars are going to the GP, but that is ignored by the host broadcaster as they do not have the TV rights for that event, so it seems there is a 4 week break until Clipsal. If I was running the V8’s, I would put them on a week before the Grand Prix in the GP host city, and try to make a “speedweek” out of the two events. As a race meeting the GP weekend is poor, particularly raceday, very few races, and they persist with that stupid celebrity race to fill in time. The V8’s could bookend, and perhaps the week could have some other events (historics for example), to fill out the early week, and have the GP on Saturday night to close it out. The mainstream media seem to ignore the races, even the host broadcaster, other than the race weekend. Channel 7 in Perth have had nothing on the V8’s until V8 extra last Saturday, and they do not make the sports news (if you can call it that, it’s the AFL, and English soccer sportsnews at best). The category needs to do more by using the drivers and teams in media and promotion activity. Many modern families do not have space for multi car garages and workshops, and some of todays youth have no interest in cars or things mechanical. They do not tinker with their cars as some simply see them as A to B transport, and if it breaks down, dad will fix it. The Greening of the country is polarising opinions and interests and some younger people just do not connect with the whole V8, or racing world. In some eyes it is seen as wasteful and excessive. The race meetings themselves lack activity, remember in the old days when there were 20 races on the day, and you would probably have 3 Touring car races intermingled with a number of other categories. I think we need more V8 races over the weekend, and more classes to support the category so that the punter gets decent value for money. cheers

I think I must be one of the only V8 supercar fans that doesn't care for the Holden vs Ford battle. I tend to follow the drivers I prefer, or hope that the smaller team gets up. There's a few reasons support is dropping, besides the cars themselves. - Starting the season in the desert, like in F1, is simply stupid. I heard the v8 drivers go on about the facilities being the best in the world, but why does that matter when the tracks are devoid of atmosphere and the run off areas are concrete, meaning there's no penalty for running wide. - Dominance of 888 - although Whincup didn't win the title last year there were a lot of races where he led pillar to post. It's been like that for a few years. It's certainly the main reason I stop watching races. - Moving to street circuits where not justified (Homebush, Hamilton). Adelaide is one of the few street circuits in the world that I think has ever worked for both atmosphere and racing. Most street circuits are right angles, little passing and too many safety cars. - Race coverage being at ridiculous times because they need to rush off to the AFL. Also cutting races short at 2 in the afternoon for the same reason is stupid. - 5 week breaks inbetween the first and second races of the year. Long breaks between races at weird times during the season. - Lack of personalities, or at the least the lack of showcasing of the personalities. The seven coverage is becoming increasingly obssesed with the few guys up the front, or overly technical aspects of the car or race. One of the hallmarks of v8 coverage in the past was that there was some focus on the whole field. There's nothing better than watching a driver improve over the years (Tim Slade is the one I've been watching the last few years).

Sort of reminds me of what happened with the NSL in this country. There were issues with other manufacturers racing in V8s so the sport went to the extreme of making it Ford V Holden only. There were issues with migrant clubs in the NSL so the FFA went to the extreme of making A-League clubs neutral/Anglo only.

That's a bit of a common history re-write, the rules were never bodged to remove the Nissans. The Sierra's dominated for far longer than the Skylines and they never re-wrote the rules to remove them. Group A died internationally because it was on the nose in all the countries it was used in, most of the other comps just had 1 car per category by the end. Germany developed DTM, the UK evolved their super tourers, Japan the JTCC, Australia their V8 formula. Why the V8's? They were by far the most popular cars in the previous iterations of touring cars in this country, and beyond that, they were the only ones left to campaign here! All that said, I would like to see more variety too, I always enjoy watching races where the cars have different strengths and weaknesses. The trouble is with maintaining a series like that, once a car has an advantage the whole series goes down the toilet

This is such an interesting area of discussion... I think that the V8s are having a major identiy crisis. Top tier touring car racing in this country was built on the idea that the cars you see going around bathurst were bought off the shelf, and (like F1 up until the end of the 70s) you could rock up and pay the entrance fee and race, provided you qualified, (hence why the rule of qualifying within 115% of the pole position time still lingers in many formats). However, just like F1, those days of "off the shelf" racers as long gone. I can't go and buy a Commodore or Falcon and go racing... AVESCO missed the point, the rivalry was Ford vs Holden per se, but rather these were the only two cars that people could get their hands on, and the rivalry was born as a result. If the only two manufacturers of 8 cylinder saloons in Australia were Toyota and BMW, the rivalry would have been between them. So despite wanting to keep the facade of Holden vs Ford in "the working man's car", V8 Supercar teams are slick, fully professional, highly engineered outfits. If we are going to push the boundaries, it should be open to the best cars, keep the V8 requirement, thats fine with me, but open it up to the very best V8s in the world. Australia has some very unique conditions, and i'd love to see how the C63 AMG would go around Bathurst in race trim! At the end of the day, Motorsport is very much divided. I would say that 30% is "the Constructors", ie people that will follow a team, regardless. The teams with the best support tend to be the historically more successful ones (ie Ferrari, McLaren). However, 70% of the interest is on the drivers themselves. Nobody would care who Brock drove for, just that it was Brock... anybody else remember that Skaife's won Bathurst in a Skyline? There are people out there that loved Mikka Hakkinen, but hate Lewis Hamilton... At the end of the day, I do not like, nor follow the V8s, not because I don't like motorsport (I'm a big F1 fan), but because the product just isn't right... It is a sport pretending to be "bogan", its not, it hasn't been for as long as it has been highly professional. I just want to see the best drivers driving the best cars, I don't care if that is a Ford, Holden, Nissan, Subaru, Merc, BMW, Dodge, Toyota, Honda, Skoda or Hyundai...

TBH, i go to the track for the racing. I don't give a rip about some old clowns singing and dancing around like there are back in the 80's. They only have those concerts to bring in the non-fans & the fence sitters. Thats why those figures are so inflated, due to these people coming to see the concert or the over the top corporate suites. Its like at the Motorshow or Autosalon they have all these badly dressed girls laying or standing on or next to the cars, which is there to bring in the fence sitter. Half the time i ask the girls to actually move away or off the car so we can get a good picture or see it better.

It's bogan... end of story, so will only ever appeal to a small audience.

Motor Sport in Australia has been going backwards since the rules were bodged to keep out the Nissans that had the temerity to beat the Holdens and Fords at Bathurst. It needs to be open to all comers as was previously the case. I'm old enough to remember when the Mini Coopers were unbeatable at Bathurst. When if a manufacturer found their cars uncompetitive they built a better car.

This is only really true at a short-term level though. Most of those sports are at or above their long-term historical popularity Basketball never really had much popularity apart from a 10 year burst in the late 80's/early 90's. If you take out that short period it's pretty much at it's average spot Soccer - looks bad over the last couple of years but historically still higher than it's average popularity over the long term The touring cars were basically dead when Group A died in the early 90's, even if they are dropping a bit now, the heights the V8 category has reached in the last 15 or so years has been quite amazing. Tennis/Golf, fade in and out with local champions, always have - they've been lower than now Cricket is an odd one out, it's up and down all over the place at the moment, the rise of twenty20 pulls crowds and money that hasn't been seen before, true fans are hoping it's not the end of the sport they love. Wiser men than me have thrown up their hands wondering how it's all going to pan out.