Melbourne Rebels without a cause

AndyS Sorry, but I really think your analogy with the Canberra AFL domestic one and what is the existence of strong national domestic leagues in all footy codes bar Union, is a drawing a very long bow indeed. I firmly believe this is why Union will always struggle in Australia and it is a very obvious distinction to be realised; it's that simple to my way of thinking. You have said as much, 'it will never happen organically'. No it won't, not in Unions case, in most demos around Oz because it is a minor code that is restricted by it's historically confined demographic, having placed little emphasis since the advent of the code going professional to grow it's domestic profile, certainly compared to Soccer, League and Aust Football. Union is the most dependant on using the top down approach to growth out of all the footy codes in Australia for good reason. It is a case of the chicken and the egg for Union perhaps, but I say they should back themselves, put their money where their mouth is and invest in a strong domestic comp at least in conjunction with Super Rugby, or simply resign themselves to always living the illusion. Nuff said.

But that is not apples and apples. Super Rugby introduces new teams in exactly the same way the AFL does - by identifying an area that is perhaps not well served for both talent and a support base and giving them something local with which to connect. It will never happen organically, as there will never be a location where a local amateur team could be pointed at and simply dubbed professional. In a professional sport, anyone with any potential will be long since identified and moved/drafted to where an opportunity exists. Saying that Rugby is over-reaching because they don't have a well-established domestic level would be the equivalent of saying that Canberra couldn't have an AFL team unless their local amateur team were drawing AFL size crowds and could beat all comers from the VFL/WAFL/SANFL and the bottom half of the AFL. Canberra or Tasmania may be more sensible locations for an AFL team, but putting them there is no less top down - they have some amateur structure, some interested support, but the league will still be parachuting most of the team in from somewhere else. Which is not to say that an ARC competition isn't necessary or important - it is for all the same reasons that the uneconomic and weakly supported VFL/SANFL/WAFL are so vital to the health of the AFL. But the absence of it does not negate the strategic logic of putting a team in a location with at least some development potential and supporters, especially when they are unlikely to already be aligned to existing teams.

AndyS. Exactly, this top down strategy exists across all footy brands however - A very important distinction in respect of Union here is that League and the AFL have the benefit of historically strong domestic cultures which Union quite frankly does not, not here in Oz anyway. This obvious gap in the codes potential to grow beyond it's nicheness in a very competitive domestic market, has been sorely neglected and currently dropped into the too hard basket. I believe Union is running before they walk because they probably acknowledge that the domestic profile and appeal of their code in Oz is unlikely to improve by resourcing a NZ NPC equivalent - perhaps?

I can understand the viewpoint and sentiment, but think that Rugby is hardly alone in looking at strategic rather than organic growth. By your argument, never mind GWS and the Gold Coast, there shouldn't even be teams in Brisbane or Sydney. At the end of the day, it doesn't get any more callously top down than wholesale moving teams from their Melbourne heartlands into another town and state. By your logic, the Lions and Swans should have just been killed off instead and replaced by additional teams in WA and SA, while the next two teams should now be Hobart and Darwin provided they could scrape together enough locals without any assistance from the league (otherwise they aren't ready yet).

The A-League currently has 11 clubs which will shrink back to 10 after NQ Fury are cut loose when this season finishes. West Sydney could not get the financial side of their bid up to requirements hence were never granted a licence to enter the A-League.

TDog, I made a mistake there. Not being in the Senior squad ( and not seeing his name mentioned elsewhere until the game against the Brumby Runners) I inferred his association with Geelong was more than it was. I don't think I ever tried to demonstrate I knew more than I did, I'm just trying to demonstrate the Rebels serve a purpose in creating pathways. Then again, I'm a Victorian- a Rebels fan, a Rebels member and a member of the Rebel Army, I freely admit my perspective may always be a bit skewed ;) There are a lot of people who who doubt the effectiveness of team, of Macqueen, that Victoria can sustain the Rebels.i've been very envious of the Northern states and adopted NSW as 'my team' for so many years until now. I just hope that given time that VRU players can make the grade and that over time the team can become truly Victorian. It might take a complete generation but I'm just happy this ragtag motley crew can embrace Victoria the same way the fans have embraced them.

The Bush I don't mean to discriminate against Rugby Union per se, it's just my philosophy that top down growth is only about addressing a commercial criteria and that this way of doing business is impacting on what are now manufactured qualities i.e. tribalism and loyalty that are hugely significant to sport, as well as disenfranchising respective heartlands to this end. In Unions case, it is a struggling minor player in a saturated Australian Footy market when you consider it's domestic status or lack thereof, so it is running before it can walk in essence. It is true to say that this is a chicken and egg situation but this also implies that there exists a balance which in Unions case is false.. A distinction that has been made time and again, is the ARU's failure in it's duty of care to its domestic structures and a lack of a holistic plan to growing this niche code in Oz. These domestic structures are historically integral and very strong in League and Australian Footballs case, so you cannot compare them with Union in this respect. I am particularly skeptical of the Melbourne experiment because even moreso than Perth, they have had to go shopping off shore to staff this team. This why I see little more than an illusion in the Rebs which includes their core fan base of ex pats and it is a moot point as to whether or not in X amount of years, the culture of the code in Vic will be afforded the luxury of time to become a very visible reality. I say it is a high;y unlikely scenario, not before the money runs out i.e. and if the Storm's lack of success in being able to grow its brand in the state of Vic, after more than a decade is any indication, acknowledging that League is a code that commands a much higher profile in this country than does Union, you would have to say the odds are stacked against them. I just think that Union had a better option in GWS and even Qld than Melbourne, certainly to cover the criteria of tribalism and grassroots potential but a commercial criteria won out again predictably. The GWS AFL experiment will prove to be a similar folly in my opinion, albeit they have the bones of a team that does represent their demographic in some respects, which for me, is a very important component to any new code establishing itself in alien territory. I have said this many times over I know and I maintain that Tassie or even Canberra were the logical expansion options in the AFL's case, despite the huge population advantage of the GWS demographic. Of course many will disagree philosophically speaking and I may well be proven very wrong, only time will tell. In respect of the Force as I am sure you recall, they were created on the back of a very similar criteria, causing much consternation and resentment amongst those real Union demographics, as well as compromising Australias Union depth and potency dramatically yet here we have another elite club that has less resources in respect of Union talent in this country, at it's disposal. The Force continue to rely heavily on the ex pat support, in particular Saffa's, that initially got them the gig over Melbourne. I may be wrong, but from what I have heard and read and speaking with family and friends who live there, the membership has not grown beyond that core of support significantly. In Melbourne's case, there were less pillaging options domestically, so an exception was made to allow this organization to go shopping overseas. From where I sit, this is a one dimensional and very short term approach to apply to growth in any code and I don't believe it to be effective or sustainable. Cheers

Lost their floor from flooding and garden shredded. Another had one external door ripped off but they are all in one piece and faired better than many. Thanks for the thoughts.

Luke Holmes is not a product of Geelong Rugby mate, he was a fringe player at Western Force. Learn a bit about this game before you start pretending to be an expert.

I know .. 2nd time within a few weeks - it's almost becoming a habitual ... I hope the the relatives made through Yasi without too much trama

Republican, Why the venom against the Force? Their crowds have been very healthy and the playing numbers in WA are way up. I'm not a believer of hiding in the cupboard. Going to WA has given Rugby Union the up on League. A national footprint has it's advantages, I would think an Aussie Rules fan would understand that better than most... You say Rugby Union should have focused on Queensland and New South Wales, by the fact is growth up here is as good as it's going to get. Southerns are only getting a choice of sport now, unlike those of us up in the tropics. Rugby Union provides an alternative in southern states, both as a different sport to Aussie Rules and the associated international aspect. Rugby's lack of a domestic structure will affect it the longer it waits, and the lack of true clubs and tribalism is certainly common ground between us, but still, why such negativity? Do you not think all Australians deserve a team in as many sports as possible. Would you really like to live in a world with just Aussie Rules? The Rebels will be fine. But a failure to produce local talent will certainly make the whole operation less worthwhile.

Republican, I'm replying with a tank-full of beer & red wine in my system, so it's possible my logic is askew. However, while I myself don't like to use war analogy in sport, I was trying to make a point above. Sometimes, it's unavoidable to use war analogy. We will have to agree to disagree about whether the Rebels are manufactured or not. I don't know if a direct correlation can be made with GWS in Sydney. However, being full of alcohol as I am, I will reserve my judgement, as the judge might say.....

DS, I'm not fishing..........

Both the Tahs and Reds have been on the end of some frightful scorelines and both conceded over 90 in a game each! I think it will be a tough year for the Rebels, but at least we have 5 professional teams now and long term it will improve the strength of Australian rugby.

Darwin Stubbie That's one for the books, to be sure. It is very rare indeed to have us on the same page metaphorically speaking DS. Ta, I am glad the essence of my message wasn't lost on everyone. Cheers

If the Rebels need inspiration they should look to none other than Melbourne's own S K Warne (on field performances). His debut was one of the worst at 1 for 228... He put the disaster behind him and went on to be one of the greatest bowlers of all time. The Rebels will be fine. I was at the game. I was amazed at the support and the enthusiasm for the team after the game in the nearby pubs. Theyre just happy to have their own team.

What Cliff said!

Blinky & Sheek, Yes it is a pain in the butt to read some of the comments on the Rebels - absolute Shite. Yes they will get beaten, yes they will struggle - but they will grow and they will become strong. Remember Queensland - both Rugby & League - used to get their backsides whipped every year by NSW - many, many years ago. With Rugby the Reads got stronger, they had the growth at Club Level and over time became a winner. At one stage Queensland had a majority in the Wallaby Team. It takes time people. I played in the Brisbane Comp many many years ago for a small club QUT - we were thrashed on most weekends - BUT - from time to time we beat some of the big guns - Uni, Brothers, Souths, Teachers. But guess what some of our players were picked for Rep Teams - and most likely without the QUT some of these players may not have got a game at another Club. But we rolled up to training, we trained hard, well hard enough for a non-professional), and we turned up every weekend. QUT is no longer - gone into subbies I think and other Teams have amalgamated as the Rugby Scenery changes. But these Teams QUT and others and the growth of Queensland Rugby were due to people playing and new teams. Queensland grew and became the Reds at Super 10 or 12 - or whenever and were strong - the Force cleaned them out - BUT - also Qld lost the growth factor - management did not work on the levels below. But the Reds came back. A short, rough history - but for God's Sake let us stop the SHITEand give the Rebels a go. They will make it - the Force have made it - and others will too. But like Sheek I would like AUS RUGBY to strengthen Club land and strive for a National Comp or making Super 15 Teams develop an under 21 comp. Now back to reading the Sunday paper.

I just wanted to pass this on to prove my point about expansion .http://tvnz.co.nz/rugby-sevens/keith-quinn-move-forward-rugby-4035215

The Bush Yep, the Force were a bad idea and still are. A very similar scenario to what will ensue in Vic I believe. Growth of this code should have been focused on NSW and Qld alone in Oz, if the powers that be were clever and patient but no, they have egos as big as their imagined demographic of what is essentially a niche sport here and as such have spread incredibly thinly, the talent stocks of the major provinces and compromised the calibre of Australian Union as well as ripping the heart out of the domestic rugby scene in my opinion. It will continue to be a code of illusion until the domestic Union culture or lack thereof is addressed first.