Consider the following:
– When looking at average attendances per professional football clubs in 2010, the highest NSW-based club was the Sydney Swans in 13th place. NSW only had three representatives in the top twenty, with the NSW Waratahs in 16th and the Canterbury Bankstown Bulldogs sneaking into 20th place.
– The highest regular season attendance in any code in Sydney in 2010 was the 43,585-crowd at the Sydney Swans-Collingwood ANZ Stadium clash. There were 37 regular season footy matches in Melbourne and one in Brisbane (with less than half of the population of Sydney) that pulled a bigger crowd.
– The Melbourne Storm, playing a foreign game in the AFL’s heartland, had an average crowd of 14,670 in a season in which they played for no points; disgraced by the salary cap scandal that engulfed the club. In rugby league’s heartland, the Penrith Panthers averaged 13,057.
– The NSW Waratahs, the sole representative of the rugby-mad NSW and Sydney in Super Rugby, can only attract 15,849 to a home match (versus Cheetahs). The majority of Melbourne-based AFL clubs, who share the city with multiple clubs, average more than double that mark.
– As the reigning champions and premiers, Sydney FC’s crowd average (7656) was the third lowest in the 2010/11 A-League season; beating out the now defunct North Queensland Fury and the beleaguered Gold Coast United, but beaten by much-smaller population bases in Adelaide, Newcastle, Central Coast and the rest.
There’s clearly a pattern.
And yet before you lump Sydney with the tag of worst sports fans in Australia, remember the tale of the Sydney Kings, who on their return to the NBL lead average attendance figures despite struggling at the bottom of the ladder; the success of the 2000 Olympics; the strong crowds at the V8 Supercars event on the streets of Homebush; and the growth of the Sydney Swans, from paupers to on par with the rest of the AFL.
Yes, Sydney really is a peculiar market.
And while fickle may be too derogatory a tag to describe Sydney, something’s up. So why are crowds consistently low given the population?
Sydneysiders will point to the poor public transport options to their stadia relative to the centrally located Etihad and MCG grounds in Melbourne. It’s certainly a worthy point that will be backed up by anyone who has experienced the ease of getting to and from Melbourne’s two mega AFL homes.
Certainly that’s one reason why Melbourne has raced away from Sydney in term of crowds; as a result of the AFL’s move away from the suburban grounds into its two city stadiums, while the NRL is still spread across Sydney and its western reaches. Melbourne’s setup suits its population density, Sydney’s doesn’t.
Other factors may include the fact that the AFL has a stronger membership culture than the NRL.
While Melbourne’s sporting fraternity is concentrated so heavily around the AFL, Sydney’s is spread across rugby league and union with strong football bases across western Sydney. One could argue that Melbourne’s AFL obsession has distorted the numbers and set an unrealistic expectation for all other sporting codes and cities to live up to.
Consider the fact that the Sydney Swans average around 30,000, equivalent to the smaller Victorian clubs and the Brisbane Lions, almost double that of the Sydney Roosters, for example.
Maybe it’s the AFL’s strong crowd figures distorting the landscape and casting Sydney’s crowds in a poor light.
Perhaps with a greater number of representative matches across all football codes – think rugby league State of Origin, Wallabies Tests, cricket internationals, Socceroos matches and so on – there’s less of an appetite for domestic codes in Sydney.
Maybe Sydney is just home to more basket case clubs who have only alienated supporters, dragging the average down.
Think Sydney FC, who has lacked direction and stability following their success in the inaugural A-League season, and the Sydney Kings and South Sydney Rabbitohs, great clubs in their respective codes who have faced extinction and seasons on the sidelines.
On a similar note, the Super League war, which was waged predominantly in Sydney, could have had a lasting legacy in disenfranchising the population and driving fans away from their teams and code (NRL). While the AFL grew from strength-to-strength in Melbourne and its auxiliary states (SA, WA) throughout the 1990s, the NRL’s development was stunted during that period.
Maybe the sporting culture is just different to Melbourne; less focused on the commitment of attending matches on a weekly basis. It’s certainly been interesting to see the reaction to the booing of the Waratahs following their heavy loss to the Cheetahs.
While it’s a regular occurrence in AFL matches in Melbourne, the anti-booing response suggests the sporting culture in Sydney is less ingrained. While booing your AFL club in Melbourne is acceptable because of a greater connection and relationship with that club, perhaps it just doesn’t exist in Sydney.
All of those reasons could explain why Sydney’s crowds are below expectations, but who really knows for certain. However, it’s certainly a fascinating conundrum and one worth examining, particularly when major sporting events are handed out and Sydney features so often.
Follow Adrian on twitter @AdrianMusolino
BamBam
Guest
pretty old forum but still relevant today 2018 :-) There was a massive exodus of Aussies out of Sydney and even NSW within the past 40+ yrs. So while NSW/Sydney may have a population well over 4 million it doesn't really represent that the majority of people living within Sydney basin are just not interested in Aussie sports. This leaves it up to maybe 500.000 Sydney residents to even be partly interested in the local sports. These sports are NRL, Rugby, AFL, Football, Cricket etc this thins the crowds out big time, where as in Melbourne lets say, AFL is the 1 and only major sports, therefore the crowds are on average decent. Plus unlike Melb and Bris. new migrants there seem to have taken up the Australian (local) culture much better, where as in Sydney every one is encouraged to live and enjoy their little ethnic pockets, and they do. Sure there are other reasons for small crowds, but doing some basic research you can see crowds where higher just before the massive exodus and immigration into and out of Sydney.
Galaxy Hop
Guest
I honestly think it's as simple as it costs more money to live in Sydney, people work more hours in Sydney, the tickets are more expensive (I think) and the stadium issue--in regards to regular season. But boy do we come out for the special occasions--grand finals, the olympics, tests. Who can forget the 110,000 Sydneysiders at the greatest rugby test ever played?
Matthew Skellett
Guest
Speaking as a Sydneysider, I have to say that Sydney has such a variety of entertainment to go to , that they are very picky and when the subject team of any given sport in this city is NOT WINNING on a regular basis , the term "Fickle Sydney' comes to the fore and the sporting fraternity collectively turn their backs (and maybe watch the game on FOX ) :-)
ChrisC
Guest
I agree AFL is more dominant in VIC than RL in NSW, but to cite the reason due to other codes is wrong. RU don't get catered for because the support for the code is non existent. If anything RU are the ones who get overstated in the media and RL understated. Try reading the Sydney Morning Herald. And don't even get me start on the sweatheart deals the AFL has in pockets of Sydney media. You clearly have no idea about Sydney.
acha5066
Guest
I can only really speak about the Waratahs as I watch them regularly at SFS, but I guess there are a few main reasons which might apply to other codes. Firstly, as you mentioned, transport is a major issue. It's baffling that there isn't a direct train line to the Sydney Football Stadium, especially when you consider no less than five professional sports teams play there, not to mention its proximity to a busy shopping street and fox studios. I just don't want to go to all that effort to get there when I can more easily watch it at home; which brings me to my next point. Atmosphere. As a big football fan (soccer) I would say that is probably the biggest reason no one wants to attend live games here. I've been to football games in England and throughout Europe, and most people go just as much for the atmosphere as they do for the skills. They sing the club songs (Why does no one sing in Australia?), they have a beer, a laugh and enjoy themselves with the other fifty or so thousand people having equally as much fun. As I write this I'm watching the NBA finals, at a packed Dallas stadium. Everyone is in blue and the atmosphere is electric. Watching a game at the SFS can be like attending a funeral, and the small crowds just lead to further small crowds as the atmosphere gets worse. Thirdly, things wouldn't be so bad for the Waratahs if the genius' in the offices hadn't decided to move two or three home games out to Homebush each year. Their reason? To grow the game. Clearly, that plan is not working as we used to have far more fans attending home games than we do now. Maybe financially it makes sense, but is it really worth it if the game loses its soul? Lastly, the Waratahs play boring rugby. All they do is kick the ball for 80 minutes. Drew Mitchell was the only one that would regularly have a go and he's out injured now. However, this is an issue throughout rugby in general. Some teams, like the Queensland Reds still manage to play exciting rugby, but I think another rule change is in order to discourage kicking and make Rugby exciting again. I used to love Rugby as a kid, but I find myself more and more dislocated from it as poor decisions continue to be made by the government, management, coaches and players. People forget that fans are the only reason these guys are able to be professional coaches, players etc, so they should wisen up and make us happy.
Johnno
Guest
Wells simple reasons: Location of the major stadiums: Adelaide, Brisbane,Melbourne,:Good location of main stadiums to city, easy public transport access. Sydney: SFS logistical nightmare for everyone in sydney even east sydney people unless you live at moore park. And homebush is not bad but crap to watch sport to far from action, sydney needs a quality rectangular stadium liek the SFS but in a good location. EG Belmore oval, Parra stadium, Kograh oval, or maybe even redfern oval, lidcome oval, chatswood oval,jsut somewhere sydney needs a good rectagnular stadium close to public transport. Or maybe redisgn homebush olpympic stadium to more rectagnular stadium, but the AFL boys, swans, and GWS would not liek that, nor the NSW cricket T20 boys.
Brad
Guest
So let me get this right. If you go and watch other people play games rather than play a game yourself, that makes your city the sporting capital of Australia. Thats stupid, surely it's better to actually play some kind of sport rather than watch it? I've always believed that the city's in Oz that get the massive crowds have either rubbish weather (Melbourne) or nothing else to do (Adelaide, Perth).
James
Guest
well because of the many people streaming into Melbourne there are some that us earlier arrivals.... find difficult to live with. Plus have you SEEN SE Queensland? It's pretty nice.
Queensland's game s rugby league
Guest
"Probably most Qlders today did not have relatives living in QLD in 1908" Prove it!
Sherrin-Burley-Faulkner
Guest
Probably most Qlders today did not have relatives living in QLD in 1908, oh hang on !!, are they still QLDers ??.
Queensland's game is rugby league
Guest
But how many of those 50 players can say that their parents and grandparents were born-and-bred Queenslanders? If their parents or grandparents are from one of the southern states then they could have influenced them to play Victorian rules football. "I really dont get your ancestor bit, most RL fans trace their ancestry back to England, so what !, does that tarnish every RL fan." Rugby league didn't evolve away from rugby union (at least not in terms of rules) until 1906. It didn't make its way to Australia until 1908. Most Queenslanders would be able to say that their ancestors were here long before 1908. Most rugby league fans in Queensland can say that their parents and grandparents and great-grandparents were born-and-bred in Queensland.
Queensland's game is rugby league
Guest
Why do Aussie rules fans use crowd figures to determine popularity of a sport? The NRL gained $15 million more than the AFL in 2010 for revenue on sports apparrel. Why don't Aussie rules fans use that as a way to gauge public support? Has it ever occurred to Aussie rules fans that there are differences between rugby league and Aussie rules fans? Rugby league fans might believe that watlking around the streets in an NRL jersey and sticking NRL posters over their bedroom is the best way to show their passion. Aussie rules fans might take more pride in going to the games. Either way, both sports rate pretty much the same on TV and outcompete one another in different ways. It's stupid to only look at attendances when gauging popular. I think a lot of the disparity in crowd numbers comes down to the VFL/AFL pushing memberships hard for yonks whereas the NRL only started doing it recently.
Sherrin-Burley-Faulkner
Guest
50 QLDers on AFL club lists, thats not a bad effort from the banana benders. I really dont get your ancestor bit, most RL fans trace their ancestry back to England, so what !, does that tarnish every RL fan. People have been playing Austalian football in QLD since the 1880's. Goalkicking great Jason Dunstall and a whole raft of players are born and bred QLDers, do you accept that, or because Jason once bumped into a Victorian at the shops, he does not qualify as a QLder.
Queensland's game is rugby league
Guest
"Well that is a tragedy, to be honest with you. There's no club identity at all now. If you don't follow the Broncos well who do you follow? That means you've got to follow a New South Wales side. I think I'm sure that's what McAuliffe didn't want to happen. But when they brought in the Queensland side into the NRL that was the end of the BRL, as far as that was concerned. It should never have happened because as it turned out, if we did lose players from Queensland to go to New South Wales we had the State of Origin. We've been winning the State of Origin, and you can imagine if we were keeping our players, the club competition would be just as good as what it was when I was playing. But that is a tragedy as far as I'm concerned is that the people miss that club identity." -Barry Muir on the decline of the BRL and the rise of the New South Wales Rugby League premiership. "Yeah well the crowd was great, they supported you wholeheartedly, they came along but it wasn't only down here on the football field it was on the streets up there. People would come up and talk to you, they'd stop you in the street and get your autograph and have a talk to you and wish you all the best and really support you in what you were doing and lifting the Club. There was four or five players here that were top-line footballers and we used to go up on the terrace and sell raffles in front of McCarthy's Jewellers store on the terrace and we'd do an hour there and then pop down to the Manly Hotel and do an hour there and then we'd pop down to Fishers (pub) and do an hour there. The players were prepared to do it because they were getting the support from this area and they would give it back on the playing field and however they could meet the people on the streets. I don't think anyone turned away from you, it was just one big happy family. We used to have like a barbecue after the game and there'd be 100 or 200 people that would turn up for the barbecue, we had it at various areas." -Lionel Morgan on the support of the BRL in the Wynnum-Manly district. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brisbane_Rugby_League_premiership#Quotes
Queensland's game is rugby league
Guest
Kasey, I can only tell you what I've observed over the years. When I was a Broncos fan during the early 1990's I heard a lot of people state just how much they hated everything about the Broncos. They all told me why. It was because of what the Broncos did to the BRL. Those sentiments still hold true today for many of the older fans that I speak with. Some of them will watch the Broncos at home or while they're at the pub, but few of them will go to the games. Some of them gave up on the game altogether after the BRL died. Rugby league fans in Brisbane didn't want to lose their teams. They couldn't buy into a competition that was based in Sydney. For years they had to watch QLD get flogged in the representative games by NSW teams that were made up of Queensland's best players (Queenslanders who played in the NSW Premiership were forced to represent NSW). The Sydney clubs had the money to lure the players away from the BRL because their Leagues clubs gained money through pokie machines. The Queensland Government banned all clubs in Queensalnd from using pokie machines. It's why Queensland ended up protesting and asked for Queenslanders to play for Queensland. State of origin was born as a result. State of Origin is now the largest and most iconic sporting event in Australia. Queenslanders love it, especially the older rugby league fans who no longer have a club to support. All Queensland rugby league fans can identify with origin because it's Queensland vs NSW and it's played on an even playing field. Not all Queenslanders can identify with the NRL for the reasons I listed above. It's why origin has supporters that you won't see at the Broncos' home games. The older Queensland rugby league fans view origin as a chance for Queensland rugby league to teach NSW rugby league a lesson for past wrongs. It's not a matter of Queenslanders hating NSW, but a matter of Queensland rugby league fans hating NSW rugby league for what the NSWRL did to the BRL. If you don't believe me then go set up an Aussie rules match between QLD and NSW. While you're at it market it to the extreme. It won't matter how hard you to market an Aussie rules match between QLD and NSW because hardly anyone up here gives a stuff the sport. You obviously know nothing about QLD/NSW. Heaps of Bears fans turned their backs on the game for good when North Sydney were given the boot. Many of them have adopted the Swans and Waratahs. NF, The Crushers were just another team in what looked like an expanded NSWRL. Very few fans of Valleys, Souths, Norths, Wests, Easts, Brothers, etc were swayed by the Crushers because they saw it as small compensation for what they lost. All of their emotions were invested in teams that were no longer playing in a strong competition. They didn't want to start all over again. It's similar to how fans of North Sydney would rather watch the Swans or the Waratahs than watch another team. For them it was better to remember the good times fromt he past and forget about the future. Same thing for the fans of the Bears. They won't come back unless a team that carries the Bears' legacy is brought into the competition.
NF
Guest
QRL I'm wondering what do you think of the Crushers admission in 1995 it should of capitalize on the anti-Bronco sentiment that does exist in Brisbane it should of being able to reconnect to those lost to them as a result of the Broncos. Crushers should of work but didn't a shame really.
Kasey
Guest
Sorry QLDs GIRL (that's the acronym - don't shoot the messenger!) but I'm calling BS on your BRL fans issues with the Broncos. By your reckoning, in a similar situation, the Crows should have less support and the SANFL would be dying. The SANFL is once again experiencing record crowds and memberships and the crows are turning a (admittedly reduced this year) profit Only Port are in regular trouble and that surely stems from decades of hatred towards the port brand thanks to the arrogance of the Magpies! Perhaps you northern staters just aren't as passionate about sport as you like to think you are. If you were(passionate that is) you'd bloody well go to games. Fact is, across a range of codes, you(QLD/NSW) don't turn out in the numbers that southern staters(WA/SA/VIC) do( despite our weather being colder)
Queensland's game is rugby league
Guest
I'm not clutching at straws. I'm telling you how it is in Brisbane. The older fans of the old BRL -- which was a prestigious competition for 80 years -- find it hard to connect with the Broncos because the Broncos' admittance into the NSWRL Premiership caused the rapid decline of the BRL. IF you think that people who have a lifetime of emotional attachment invested in a club and the competition they played in are going to support a franchise that caused them to lose their club and their competition then you're mad.
Queensland's game is rugby league
Guest
Bondy, You think it's strange that the older rugby league fans who grew up supporting Valleys, Wynnum-Manly, Wests Parnthers, South Magpies, Norths Devils, Brothers and Easts Tigers compete in the Brisbane Rugby League -- when it was a prestigious competition -- find it hard to connect with the Broncos because the Broncos are the reason the teams they have a strong emotional attachment with are now playing in a second-tier competition? It was the Broncos' admittance into the NSWRL Premiership that caused the rapid decline of the BRL during the late 1980's. Up until then the BRL was running quite nicely for a competition that couldn't rely on pokie revenue to prop up its teams -- unlike the Sydney teams who were rich because they it wasn't illegal for sports clubs in NSW to gain revenue from pokies in their Leagues clubs. If you think that a person who has spent decades supporting a BRL team is going to instantly take a liking to the very franchise that killed off the BRL then you're mad. Look at all of the North Sydney Bears supporters who walked out of the game after the Bears were given the boot. Quite a few fans of the Tigers and Magpies left the game when their teams were forced to merge. Not everyone takes kindly to having their favourite team relegated to a second-tier competition. More often than not they go on to hate those who were responsible.
Bondy
Guest
Queensland's game is rugby league. You've mentioned in you're last few previous blogs that the Brisbane Bronco's deeply divide the Brisbane Community, that would be quite strange taking into consideration that Queensland's game is rugby league ?.