The consequence was that I didn’t get to school on time.
Understanding responsibility and consequence is important for the development of any individual or organisation.
Todd Carney, for example, would’ve understood that an alcohol ban meant no drinking. Still, he chose to break that rule and now he has paid the price.
As a trained school teacher Manly coach Des Hasler is better placed to understand the action/reaction process than most.
If a pupil in his class didn’t want to abide by the rules then there would’ve been punishment of some sort.
So, why has the Sea Eagles icon been fighting so many battles this year that, on the surface, seem to be open and shut cases?
The club still feels they were treated poorly when the NRL suspended Brett Stewart for four games and fined them $100,000 in 2009. The NRL claims some players were allowed to drink too much, but they only came to that conclusion thanks to the Sea Eagles own report.
Then there’s the Brookvale brawl from round 25 this year where Glenn Stewart and Adam Blair turned the match into fight night on the way to the sin-bin.
Hasler claimed it was the NRL’s responsibility to make sure the players were walked off the ground by extra referees.
Manly forward Brent Kite also hit out at the media in the aftermath of the bust-up. Apparently it was the responsibility of journalists to not replay the fight in news bulletins because it set a bad example.
The latest thorn in Hasler’s side came on Saturday night at the Sydney Football Stadium where a terrible crowd turned out to see Manly beat North Queensland in week one of the finals.
Hasler said the NRL shouldn’t have moved the match to the bigger venue.
“I’ve mentioned to the NRL that maybe, just that first week, let the sides have the [home-ground advantage].” Hasler said.
“If Manly are playing [North] Queensland, it’s not a hard one, is it? It’s not a hard one to work out that we would have easily got 20,000 [at Brookvale]. So 13,000 – probably ten [thousand], there might have been a bit of fudging there – but clearly there is a lesson there.”
The lesson is if you’re not happy with the rule then make sure your club doesn’t agree, along with every other NRL team, to move finals to bigger venues.
The Sydney Football Stadium is 20 kilometres from Brookvale Oval. If fans can’t be bothered making a journey that small then something is wrong.
In Hasler’s defence it wasn’t a great look. The stadium was more than half empty and a game against the Cowboys was never going to have officials putting the ‘house full’ sign up. Yes, Brookvale would’ve been packed, but it’s not the point.
Finals, regardless of who is playing, need to be held at bigger venues. In the UK, fans travel hours from places like Newcastle and Liverpool in the north to see their team play at Wembley in London on Cup days. Asking supporters to travel across the other side of the harbour isn’t unreasonable.
The club needs to stop swimming against the current.
You may agree with Hasler on many fronts and that’s fine.
But if Manly’s own report into the 2009 incident said Stewart was, according to the NRL, “asked to leave the main bar due to intoxication at around 6.00pm” then that’s not the fault of the league.
If a player decides to get in a fight on the way to the sin-bin then the NRL is not responsible and if every club agrees to play finals matches at bigger venues then so be it.
Manly isn’t the only problem child either.
David Gallop was predictably drowned out by boos from the crowd at AAMI park yesterday as he presented the minor premiers with the JJ Giltinan shield ahead of their match against Newcastle.
Everyone from Storm coach Craig Bellamy to each player involved still feels like they won the premierships that have been taken away.
That’s understandable. The players worked hard during those seasons and remember the celebrations with men who are as close as brothers. Those memories don’t fade.
But it doesn’t make it right.
Deep down they must understand the NRL had to punish them for making a mockery of the rules everyone else was playing by.
To boo Gallop was wrong. He didn’t treat the salary cap like a suggested limit. He didn’t bend the rules or mislead the fans.
When did we stop understanding how responsibility and consequence work?
I don’t get it.
moizon
Guest
There was a lot of people not going in protest, the time slot was also terrible, did you notice there was hardly any kids in the stands. Also the game looks great on my 150" tv
Boris
Guest
I see this journalist deliberately cut off part of Hasler's quote just so it suits his headline better. The quote should have read "clearly there is a lesson there FOR ALL OF US"... Clearly, he is taking some responsibility. This is the kind poor journalism we have come to expect from sports journalists these days. None of them can report objectively anymore. He can't get over Manly long enough to recognise that Cowboy fans obviously aren't going to travel to the SFS, so they need to maximise the crowd by having it at a home ground.
GT
Guest
Funny, I don't recall any outrage when the eventual 2010 premiers managed only 15,000 to a semi final at their actual home ground at 4:00 on a Sunday afternoon in 2010. No, as usual the only outrage is because it's Manly. The situation is pretty easy to work out. All clubs should play at their home ground or none should.
PaddyBoy
Guest
Mate, the fight was highlighted because it continued after the players were going off the field, and Brett Stewart tried to king hit Blair from behind running in when engaged in a one on one fight, followed by several of his team mates. I might remind you that Brett Stewart escaped punishment. Brett Stewart was punished on evidence provided and compiled by Manly on the fact that he was so drunk at the teams season launch that he was asked to leave, and was then kicked out of several pubs afterwards. He was not punished for the sexual assault charges, and Manly was fined for letting half their team get loaded in front of sponsors of the cash strapped club. Benji was not drunk and disorderly, Carney broke team rules so the NRL couldn't step in (mollycoddled - agreed). The rules about the stadium were agreed to by all the clubs, and what Sea Eagles fans continue to dismiss is that the club agreed to these rules before a season where they were predicted to finish outside the top 4. One they made it, suddenly the rules are wrong, discriminatory, etc, and kick up yet another media circus, and blame everyone but themselves. They agreed to the rules when they thought it would benefit them, and when it didn't, they changed their minds. If it was such an issue, why was this not addressed in the correct manner at the meeting. Things they could have done: 1. Allowing submissions if crowd projections point to a higher attendance under the circumstances 2. Manly to be excluded due to travel issues 3. Voted against the proposal They didn't, they agreed to it, and then kicked up another media storm, because the NRL wouldn't change the rules agreed to at the beginning of the season at a weeks notice. What, are all the clubs meant to get representatives to fly into Sydney to hold an emergency meeting because Manly changed their mind?
Bearfax
Guest
As usual the Manly bashers come out in force yet again....but illogical as that is its par for the course. They've been doing this since 1972 when Manly won their first premiership. But lets get this into perspective 1 There is little doubt that Arthurson cleverly got Manly a good deal in the 70s and 80s and that Manly plundered other teams to achieve success. Nothing new. St George did it in the 50s and 60s. Sydney City in particular, Canterbury and Souths have been doing it in the past decade....has Manly, check out their squad and how many major players have been grabbed in the past 5 years. Last one was Kennedy about 5 years ago. Yet some teams have full access to major pickings of players because of the uneven distribution of areas they hold. Check out Brisbane, Parramatta, Penrith, St George Illawarra, Newcastle. The jealousy is surely unfounded in the last decade because other teams now dominate the League's admin and like Manly in the 70s and 80s they can manipulate the League to their benefit.....but we cant see this can we. 2. The League and Gallop blundered badly in the Stewart case, jumping the gun before understanding the facts. This player has since been vindicated (no different from Marshall, Louie and a herd of other players who have been charged with serious matters and had them rightly dismissed). But the action against Stewart (fined and suspended) was excessive and far heavier than any other player had to face.....oh yes it was alleged that he MAY have had too much to drink at a function...hello are they serious. Yet Carney was mollycoddled by the League and Gallop ran to the kids defence despite the convictions this young fellow has been dealt. Carney protected, Stewart castigated still.......but we cant see this can we. 3. The home ground advantage is discriminatory in that it unfairly suits a majority of teams to the detriment of a few teams.. Melbourne, North Queensland, Brisbane, Auckland, Canberra, Newcastle all get home ground advantage. Souths, Canterbury, Wests use the Olympic Stadium as their home ground or one of their home grounds. This leaves Parramatta, which is next door anyway and Sydney City, Cronulla, Penrith, Manly and St George Illawarra without a home ground adavantage, effectively just over a quarter of the League is discriminated against. Having regard to the access issue for crowds, both Sydney City, Parramatta and Penrith would have no problems getting their supporters to the Stadium. That leaves St George, Cronulla and Manly as the only teams who are seriously discriminated against by this policy...made worse if any of those teams have to face Souths, Canterbury, Wests and Parramatta who either count the Stadium as their home ground or its next door......but we cant see that can we. 4. The fight in the match between Melbourne and Manly was little different from many fights that occur on a football field. The only difference was that this one was at a high profile match and occurred on the side lines near the cameras and was 'pushed' by the media. Generally such a fight would have ended in warnings from the refs and a penalty and perhaps 10 minute breathers for some players. But this one was almost in viewers living room wasnt it...and we cant see that can we. The problems with the League are fundamentally that we have administrators like Gallop, who may try hard at their job but arent up to the task and end up seemingly showing favouritism to some against others and a general lack of common sense. As a Manly supporter, I konw he doesnt like Manly ( as Melbourne fands know he doesnt like them) and that shouldnt happen in a professional game. Thats where your problem of responisbility lies....and we cant see that can we.
Seano
Guest
13000 for a final? The saints v swans got 40,000!!! Which is a comparable game!!!!! That's a joke!!!!! I can't remember an afl regular game with a crowd that low! -- Comment left via The Roar's iPhone app. Download The Roar's iPhone App in the App Store here.
yewonk
Guest
i said it somewhere else on here but if manly cant secure a finnancially stable future in these years of a good roster then they will go bankrupt. this everybody hates us attitude can work when you have seventy thousand supporters ie collingwood and even be a quirk of character but watching manly conduct themselves is horrible especially if you love the league as whole. anyway i think broncos are going to roll them in two weeks time and after that i think their attitudes of this year will come in haunt them in the preseason for next.
Midfielder
Guest
Okiee Mateeeeeeeee Manly have lot's of families at their matches and lots of females as well ... your comment about being scared to go to Brooky is laughable and sad at the same time... however you do come from QLD and that may explain it... As for everybody hates us we don't care ... well by and large its true... so if facts annoey you then so be it... As for a club... aside from 98 to 2004 ... Manly has been the most successful club since the launch of the limited tackle rule... always making the finals as I said apart from the 98 to 2004 and I think one year in the late 80's... My guess is when the match was taken away from brooky many folk said ... well FU Mr G I can watch it from home and next time put it at Brooky... I think people outside the area don't quite understand how important the club is in the area... and how everyone wants the team to do well and expects the management to do a good job... Also too for those who can remember the Super League war it was Manly along with Newcastle who stood against News Manly put a team on the park that near send them broke hense why the quite years from 98 to 2004... but if Manly had gone with News and they were made a massive offer to change then RL as we know it would be different ... why do I say Manly & Newcastle because they were the two teams that News wanted they did not get ...
Ksi
Guest
I was at Lang Park Saturday night. There were more NZ fans there than the whole crowd at the SFS. SFS crowd was a disgrace. If you're a fan you travel. I'm a broncos fan that lives on the Gold Coast. I drive 1 hour to get a bus which takes another 40 minutes. Prob about 110 km. So put the tissues down and support you team Manly. 20km is nothing. -- Comment left via The Roar's iPhone app. Download The Roar's iPhone App in the App Store here.
DumpStar
Roar Rookie
I think the Sydney vs Out of Town conferences are silly. We should go with one more like the NFL. 4 teams per conference, you can even mix it up a little (some Sydney teams mixed with some out of town teams). Conference winners make it, and 4 wildcards. It even allows for expansion a lot easier Something like this. West Bulldogs Tigers Panthers Eels East Warriors Knights Roosters Rabbitohs North Nth Qld Manly Brisbane Gold Coast South Melbourne Raiders Dragons Sharks If expansion came (Lets say Perth and another QLD team), You could move Manly to another conference (Probably East) and move the QLD team into it. Perth could be added to the Western Conference. Play your own conference twice (6 games), and one other conference twice (8 games), and the other 2 conferences once (8 games), giving you 22 games during the season. Not hard to tweak if you add extra teams as you could go on last years finals position to determine who gets a stronger draw.
Al from ctown
Guest
Spot on Luke... Whinging has just become part of the manly culture... Seems we just have to accept this from them... Mind you the way they are slowly getting rid of their full blooded supporters like peters and co, maybe there won't be any supports left and we can all enjoy the game without manly... To say that they would have bothered to turn up if it was at brooky is nothing but pathetic and childish from people that claim to be die hards... Maybe try hards.. And I have to disagree oikee, if manly were to disappear, league in Sydney would be just fine... We can do without the 7000 sooks that are too scared to leave "gods country" for the good of the game. To those 13000 that did turn up, well done! But I'd be looking for a team that supports you. -- Comment left via The Roar's iPhone app. Download The Roar's iPhone App in the App Store here.
Matt F
Guest
In 2007 they got over 30k to the SFS for a prelim (against the cowboys as well!) and in 2008 they got over 30k against the Warriors of all teams so I am confused as to where the fans went. I know I'm comparing prelim finals to week 1 finals but they can travel when they want to. Though given half the NZ population lives in Bondi maybe we can discount 2008!
oikee
Guest
To even go one step furhter, if i had a chance to see a home game at the suncorp, Doggies or Manly, ? Yes Doggies every time. And that is brand power. Doggies family friendly for everyone involved. Kids love Doggies, and love their games.
oikee
Guest
All i can add to that is success breeds success. So yes the roar and Reds have been winning, but this grows a culture. Then you look at what Bruno did for the Bronocs, sat around and relied on fans to turn up, did not bother with memberships.
oikee
Guest
I dont think Manly have a clue what they are doing. Their 1970's mentallity is not how to sell the game or the product. You can butter it up all you like, but this hate us we dont care attitude might sound great, to them, nobody else, but when you have family clubs like the broncos who are growing the crowds with families and other teams even having family friendly sections, turning up to Manly for a drunken brawl fest is not only damaging the game, its damaging the Broncos brand as well, yes i used the Broncos, but same could apply to Melbourne. Not one fan wants to travel to Brooky, not one, hey if i lived in Sydney i would prefer my odds in amounst the doggies fans. :) So yes, think as you will, but this old dinosaur way of thinking needs to be gone, be gone i tell ya, go now. I said the other day, if i was a sponser, Manly would be the last club i would sell my Product, and i would be on Gallops case if i sponsered another team to have Manly's head pulled in, they is damaging the overall product. Heres a quick list off the top of my head. Players misbehaving at launch sponsers party. Stewart Galloping, Brawl, Peters , Des always complaining about stewart. Matai clipping Bowen, Fans not travelling spite Gallop, Manly more, sure someone could add to this.
oikee
Guest
Clipper, i have been talking the same stories for the last 3 years, Dinosuars and muppets, we all sit back and read another dinosaur has been moved on every month in the papers. Peters, Livermore, Finch,Cullen and many others, i would need to look them up, some get replaced by new dinosaur juniors, some just have had enough and the clubs call in the big dinosaurs like Gus to clean up the whole dinosaur mess. Anyhow, Gus has at least one brilliant idea if it takes hold. And you can see that Gallop has his hands full with so many problems and trying to grow the game, his work was cut out, he still has done a pretty good job. Others might have cracked under the pressure. But from now on i want cutting edge ideas, no more dinosaur ideas. So more adds, follow NFL, timeouts, coaches call, and lets follow the NFL finals system, it would work possitively for the Sydney clubs. More fire at games, lots more, big fire, and players with gladaitor armbands. Heavy metal music at breaks in play(warriors do this successfully), give me a big time experience at the game, make me want to turn up. This is what it is all about, even have a voilin player on the ingoal ready to play a tune if it goes to the video ref. The slow Zorba music, or until the ref makes a decision, its all fun and get the crowd involved. Mate i have ideas that would knock you into the next century. Lets make the game sing. Lets be cutting edge sports entertainment.
Jeff
Guest
WOW.. onya Oiks. ... such uncomplicated reasoning. Why can't the Muppets see this???. -- David keeps telling us that we have a 'close competition'. if this is so, why do we get three teams absolutely dominating the first week of finals? . Manly hammered Cowboys, Broncs Hammered Warriors and Melbourne just seemed to go into cruise mode late in their game. the truth is as Oiks says. if we wait for teams to catch up. the opportunity to improve is GONE!.
Jeff
Guest
Oikee You are saying what I have been repeating with regular monotony for the past 3 years. Do NRL actually have a 5 or 10 year plan and if so, What is it??. Maybe classified as 'secret Muppets and dinosaurs. business'. or something similar!!!.
Mark Christensen
Guest
Every business needs to understand its product. Des Hasler and the Manly Sea Eagles know what they are selling, the NRL doesn’t, or at least won’t admit it .... http://www.intempore.com.au/brookvale-brawl-and-brand-nrl/
storm gal
Guest
lots of people scared of manly or wot