Warburton's red card for spear tackle a joke! [video]

The ref's decision is absolutely correct...before this happens... High school rugby player in Canada has been found guilty of manslaughter over a spear tackle. The teen was playing in a game in the Ontario town of Mississauga in 2007 when, the prosecution said, he lifted rival player Manny Castillo into the air, his feet facing upwards, and drove him head first into the ground. Castillo died from a serious head injury a few days after the incident, the Toronto Star reported. The accused, who is now 18 and cannot be named under Canada's youth laws, gave evidence in his own defence at the trial, claiming he reacted to get out of a headlock applied by Castillo. He also said Castillo was pushed, not dumped, onto the ground, the Star said. But the prosecution said it was an unlawful assault outside the rules of the game. Justice Bruce Duncan rejected self-defence and ruled the accused cause the death of Castillo. Sentencing will take

Definite deserved red card - card blame the ref for sticking to the rules. Players at this level know that the tackler has the responsibility to make sure it's a safe tackle...he lifted him and speared him.

Spot on.

>The Lions thing interests me because at the time the NZ media were adamant that Umaga and Mealamu had no case to answer when that for me was a classic example of a red card offense. Yeah but the kiwis (or the kiwi media at least) are not known for being graceful losers. Its always someone else's fault (especially's the ref's, or the French's or both).

I can't understand why it would not ever be seen as a red. He had two decisions to make: 1) To lift the player and 2) To either drive him down or drop him. He did lift him and he did drive/drop him by still attacking the ball as the player was falling. As a consequence the French player landed heavily on his neck and shoulders and could easily have suffered serious injury. It was just luck that he did not. It doesn't matter about intent, blah blah blah or maliciousness - he qualified for a red card and got one. Its surely his own fault as not everyone lifts and srives players down when they tackle so why didn't he? He only has himself to blame..People should ask him - why did you do it? - NOT Ref why did you do it?

only a sour loser can say that nothing to do with Rolland's nationality : it is clearly a dirty dangerous tackle that deserved the red card

Appreciate your views, we may have to disagree on some of it. My issue is based on the fact that I just don’t think people are making lots of tackles on a regular basis in practice, in games because good technique when people are charging at each other every so often results in someones thigh’s flying up around ones ears (I know, I know.. but its only for a split second) and if the technique is good there is no controlling or anticipating it. The danger as Gatland says is that each time the tackler uses good technique and lifts a lighter player off the ground without intention is that he gets sent off and that’s where comments about reckless illegal he got what he deserved don’t add up to me. It’s a split second contact where no one has time to do a risk assessment and calculate the angles and forces involved so ‘once he had him up he made no attempt to..’ etc. as some have said doesn’t add up either. It’s all very well to legislate for these things but that to me is just trying to make things look safer than they are.Thats where concerns over player safety are justified but I think handing out reds is not an answer. The closest parallel to me is a smaller player slipping as he takes the ball into the tackle and the tackling player catching him high. Sure, penalty because one can’t say its just an accident play on but no red card. The laws are draconian to cover against exploitation/ player injury but as Pienaar Fitzpatrick et al. have said the laws can be applied in every contact situation and scrum and the ref would never stop whistling and giving out cards if he didn’t use discretion. That’s where experience and a sense of proportion comes in. And that’s where I’ve been a bit surprised by the things people are saying in the press and forums. It’s like they don’t play the game. Can’t train against the effects of course but yeah accidental tip tackles happen all the time and the coaches won’t whistle unless they’re trying to replicate game referees who will call a penalty often no more. Team mates do like to drive each others heads into the ground if it’s a no holds barred contact session but it’s pretty much understood that you don’t do that in a game just as you don’t meet an up and under with a soccer header unless it’s the early part of pre season. The amount of times I’ve had my head driven into the ground, but you know I get my legs taken out from under me in line outs (a la SA vs AUS) and at kick offs a lot more. The worst injuries I see are the head on collisions and collapsed scrums and mauls. I’ve had a dented skull and plastic surgery from collisions and popped my neck in a collapsed scrum. Are we going to outlaw players from rattling into each other and scrums from engaging or send players off if scrums collapse or the opposition need stitches? The Lions thing interests me because at the time the NZ media were adamant that Umaga and Mealamu had no case to answer when that for me was a classic example of a red card offense. I guess the arguments will rumble on.

Heh - well its green and leafy but I'd not call i exotic! (Though I suppose it might be depending on where you come from) If your anywhere south of the equator I suspect your place puts mine to shame:) Though Shropshire was supposed to be the inspiration for Lord of The Rings.... Beers HH

Shropshire? Very exotic!

In the light of day Rhys, I agree. However there have been a few poor ref performances... However lasts nights was well controlled.

Didn't speak any Welsh though did he? Case closed.

Of coarse it was a red card! He changed the momentum of Clerk in the tackle, pick him up, turned him over, then dropped him. It was the ref's only option. What would your reaction have been if clerk had broken his neck???

Contacts like that? You mean one can train against the effects of spear tackles and team mates practise it on each other? I see what you are saying though, Rugby *is* violent, but the IRB (and not the AFL afaik) has taken a stronger stance now, especially after the Lions' tour in 2005. Rules have changed with respect to this very move. Very publicly and strictly, and for the best imho. Lifetime disability -or worse- risk due to a player flipped upside down during a tackle is no longer on. There are still other risks as you mention, that is no reason to allow anything and everything. On a side note, I reckon this goes with the game being more and more professional too.

It strikes me that the people on here talking about 'dangerous, its so dangerous, landed on his head etc.' are just not playing enough rugby, let alone enough rugby at a high standard. The laws are there to protect players but contacts like that happen all week long in full contact training and at least every other game. That is the first time I've seen a red for something like that and I think it was a mistake. I personally haven't spoken to one good player who thinks otherwise. I appreciate any concern voiced for player safety and I appreciate other people's views , just from my experience I saw that as a big mistake from Rolland regardless of the occasion.

Fair enough, maybe not "spear." "Lifting tackle" sounds very innocuous though, one could be lifted in any position. "Dropped spear" tackle rather than "driven spear" tackle maybe? Or "upside-down" tackle? In any case I am glad we are talking semantics rather than wondering whether an athlete will walk again. And a red card helps ensure we will not wonder about that again. :)

Chris, I have no doubt the tackle was a dangerous lifting tackle and dealt with appropriately. However, understand it wasn't a spear tackle. This occurs when the tackler lifts the ball carrier through the horizontal and drives him into the ground. In this case, Sam lifted the player through the horizontal and then let him go rather than 'spear' him in. In this case, he only had to grab or make some attempt to cushion the fall and he would have more than likely received a less severe penalty, possibly a yellow. We'll never know. In cases such as these, I do prefer the 'lifting' tackle rather than 'spear' tackle be used to describe the incident as this is what it was.

He was dumped upside down, but it wasn't a spear tackle. Yeah right, in which universe? Bottom line: The Welsh were much much better than the French, and they blew it but missing all the easy kicks they had, and by this (maybe involuntary, but that doesn't enter one bit into the decision) reckless tackle. One kick would have been enough. Bottom line 2: Player safety comes first. We don't want to see long term injuries inflicted to players, especially spinal ones. This is a game, not a gladiators' circus. A game ruined rather than a man's life? Any time.

Here is the rundown on Law 10.4(j), according to the IRB's rulebook:  "Lifting a player from the ground and dropping or driving that player into the ground whilst that player's feet are still off the ground such that the player's head and/or upper body come into contact with the ground is dangerous play. "A directive was issued to all Unions and Match Officials in 2009 emphasizing the IRB's zero-tolerance stance towards dangerous tackles and reiterating the following instructions for referees: - The player is lifted and then forced or 'speared' into the ground (red card offence) - The lifted player is dropped to the ground from a height with no regard to the player's safety (red card offence) - For all other types of dangerous lifting tackles a yellow card or penalty may be considered sufficient

Warburton lifted him past the horizontal and the red card was legit. Get over it. You cannot blame the ref for making that call. It's Warburton's fault for making the tackle. I would probbly have awarded a yellow because of the occasion, but technically that attitude is wrong. The occasion shouldn't come into it.

You cannot believe the comments regarding outrage over a match changing red card, yet would have awarded a yellow yourself? That is some quality fence sitting.