Rocky Elsom in action during the Tri-Nations rugby Test at Suncorp Stadium in Brisbane, Saturday, July 24, 2010. The Wallabies ran the world champion Springboks into submission to win the second Tri-nations rugby Test 30-13. (AAP Image/Patrick Hamilton)
After watching the absorbing World Cup final between France and New Zealand, I got to thinking: what was it that made both teams so competitive?
Classy flyhalf? Dominant front rows? Scintillating back threes? All important elements but for mine, the power behind World Cup victories this season has been the backrow.
Julien Bonnaire, Thierry Dusautoir and Imanol Harinordoquy stood alongside Richie McCaw, Jerome Kaino and Kieran Read as the most important players on the field.
The modern game is becoming more about the breakdown and that split second advantage gained by arriving first and controlling it. The French and All Blacks boast quality players in the backrow that seem to hunger for the contest of the collision.
They keep fronting up, willing to do the hard work (and not lurking on the wing waiting for a miracle play).
Similarly, these players are towers of strength when it comes to carting the ball up, crossing the advantage line and presenting good quick ball for the next phase.
These players all have a good skill set, can pass and catch well, position themselves intuitively in both attack and defence, and inspire their team mates with their big hits and rousing runs.
Compare this with Radike Samo and Rocky Elsom.
One of Australia’s biggest problems in all the World Cup matches was that we had an unbalanced and inefficient set of loosies. David Pocock carried the team with his inhuman work rate and accuracy, but he was poorly supported by his 6 and 8.
We run the risk of losing one of our best players to injury or mental fatigue if he continues to carry this weight alone.
We know that both Radike and Rocky are capable (on their day) of playing to a high level, but in the most important tournament of their lives they could not deliver.
The solution? Well the answer is also as simple as it is unattainable. Who are our Dusautoir and Harinordoquys? Where do we get our next Kaino and Read from?
Robbie, over to you.
Touko
Guest
Ta for the info :-)
Mike
Guest
Good points, stillmissit, especially the last paragraph.
Mike
Guest
Whittaker's an interesting thought. Would you seem him as a better prospect than Palmer, or Kepu (assuming the latter reverts to TH)? Re Charles - what do you see him as offering that Moore and TPN don't? (note, I am not disagreeing with you, just interested in your views, although as a general principle I am reluctant to let go incumbent players who are doing okay - the problem is that each rookie is a bit of a lottery as to whether he will handle the step-up pressure or not) And I agree with your opening comment: I think many of our woes in this RWC were not actually back-line woes at all, but forward problems. Too many commentators explain how Deans should have re-shuffled his back-line, but this really is treating the symptom, not the cause.
jeznez
Guest
I so wish Mumm wasn't captain - given Foley is newly in charge, hopefully he will select a team and then pick a captain. Not the other way around.
Big Steve
Guest
your biggest problem here is Mumm will be the captain so better find him a starting spot. I think Mcaffery and Fitzpatrick will get alot of game time this year. for tha back row, look like we will never find out as deans continues to play the same old. Really hoping for a big squad reshuffle for the NH tour. Timani, wykes, dennis and either gill or robinson in the squad. Backs, barnes,oconner, Horne at 10, 12, 13. Whats been picked for the WC hasnt worked. Please try something new on this tour!
jeznez
Guest
Wykes is an interesting option. I think there is much better young talent that can develop and pressure Pocock than there is 8's. I think Jarrod Saffy looks very obviously an openside rather than the blindside they are playing him as. When Lipman has not been available and he has switched sides his running lines and trailing of the ball has been excellent. Needs to work on his pilfer but I don't think it would take a lot to get him to be the clear back up to Pocock. As a six Saffy runs too high into contact and doesn't stack up with the power of say a Kaino but his physique for a seven is big and he goes all day. For 8 I think we really need to see if Vaea can come on, he is big, strong and young. Needs to get fit enough to hit breakdowns all day as well as make his running charges but looks the most likely young 8 in the absence of real challenge from the other super sides. Qld - Samo (not young!) NSW - Palu (always injured) Vic - Delve (Welsh) WA - McCalman, Brown (tried and failed) Vaea is the only option as a young 8 which is damning. Seven is actually much healthier Qld - Robinson, Gill NSW - Alcock, McCutcheon ACT - Hooper, Faingaa Vic - Saffy (if they'll play him there) WA - Pocock, Hodgson Six's are in between: Qld - Higginbotham, Quirk, Schatz NSW - Elsom, Mumm, Dennis ACT - Mowen, (Hoiles?) Vic - they play Saffy out of position but the other guys are ineligible like T Pole etc WA - Brown, Hodgson, McCalman (again)
stillmissit
Roar Guru
I don't think we have the 'real' Rocky playing here. I am sure he came back only because he had come to an agreement with O'Neil and is honouring that deal. It struck me that he was very happy in Ireland and is not so in Australia. Palu has always been a potent force that has rarely hit the peak due to injury, I would be looking at the Force second rower Sam Wykes as a #6 he is only 23 and can make the change, he is fast and has good hands also enjoys the rough stuff, Ben Mowan has always struck me as a guy who would fit into the #6 role of the Wallabies as well. At openside we just don't have a serious backup to Pocock and maybe a call to George Smith to come over for a season might buy us time to find a backup. I think we have the makings of a great pack but we need a consistent front row. I would be looking to bring in someone to replace Jim Williams as forwards coach and preferably someone from another country where forward play is respected and mastered.
amband
Guest
in " the roar " league page, there is a thread " has speed killed the prop forward " If the traditional big prop forward in league is gone, then there should be plenty more big lads for rugby
Mike
Guest
Jeznez, I think the cadre of scrum coaches is a great idea. I have copied it over on the "time to look at wallabies" thread.
amband
Guest
too short maybe for backrowers. I have wondered how Ron Coote would go as a breakaway/flanker
amband
Guest
and you make sense too
jeznez
Guest
Looking at the grade league sides makes total sense. There are probably a bunch of big hard blokes who just don't make the top grade because they aren't explosive enough in their running or struggle to keep the weight off and fitness up to a professional level. Some of those blokes would probably love a chance at a professional sport that might suit their body type more. Definitely bears thinking of but should be something the local clubs are doing to pull guys from A-grade etc and if they developed then they can look to build to rep honours. I personally want a cadre of scrum coaches who go around clubs and scout for young talent and train it in the clubs - they then have the same briefs to go to each Super side and perform the same work there and then ultimately work with the Wallabies as well. That should be an ARU initiative and would be similar to what Mike Cron does in NZ.
amband
Guest
one of the blokes on Grre and Gold rugby " started a facebook page re Robbie Deans and who should be coach http://www.facebook.com/pages/Wallaby-coach-Who-should-it-be/173944289361350?sk=wall
jeznez
Guest
Is it that time already? To start the how good do the Waratahs look on paper game? The team I'd select given a fit squad would be: 1. Robinson 2. Polota-Nau 3. Kepu 4. Vickerman 5. Timani 6. Elsom 7. Alcock 8. Palu 9. Pretorius 10. Barnes 11. Mitchell 12. Horne 13. Ashley-Cooper 14. Pakalani 15. Turner The reserve's team would then be as follows (*'s are reserves to make a match 22 with the list above) 1. Tilse *2. Ulugia *3. Ryan 4. Peterson (never seen this guy play - any Manly fans keen to comment?) *5. Douglas 6. Mumm 7. McCutcheon *8. Dennis *9. McKibbin *10. Foley 11. Fitzpatrick (out of position I know but he is the only bloke in the senior squad I haven't picked and there is no one else!) 12. Carter *13. Kingston 14. Karauria-Henry 15. Halangahu
amband
Guest
I see what you are saying. Still, a good look around the grades of league may turn a couple up. It's quite clear it's the only alternative. The State & ARUs don't seem to be looking at home
jeznez
Guest
Granville, some super players there no doubt, but......... Dave Taylor's neck looks too long to be a prop forward - he could definitely work on it but despite his obvious size and strength I think he would struggle in the front row in union. Gallen's neck doesn't look right to me either if you were to ask him to play hooker. Google image search Owen Franks, William Servat and Jean-Baptiste Poux. You could fix the centre and back row issues with players in league and a lot of training but finding guys similar shapes to these three who can then learn to scrummage is unlikely. Power lifting and shot put are much more likely to produce the types of front rowers required.
amband
Guest
see the youtube on Franks I think we have no choice to find better props. It's clear rugby either hasn't got them, or is not looking. League is the only alternative to find those few blokes that are good enough. Not all will be Maybe the ARU could get a grant from the Arts council to find props at the Ballet. I'll leave that for you
jeznez
Guest
Lazarus and Bella were the last two front rowers I looked at and went, gee I wonder how they would have gone in union. If we look at more recent periods then the only bloke I've ever really considered was Carl Webb. I'm with Mike, the obvious looking blokes in league come from a prior era with the modern day player rarely fitting the body shape. You just don't find that many Endomorphic body types in league.
John Allyne
Guest
Who will be the no. 12 for the Warathas, do they look like having a good backline and good back up players. Inman has become to big and slow. and won`t put Mortlock out of the no.13 at the rebels
jeznez
Guest
Touko, I think he looks our best THP by a mile, got limited opportunity behind Al Baxter at the Tahs so went to the Brumbies. Is only young and broke down in his first season of playing Super Rugby regularly rather than cameos when Robinson and Baxter were unfit. Needs a good full season of Super Rugby under his belt all at tighthead. He has tried to increase his versatility and play at loose as well but there is no comparison in his effectiveness. I'd prefer he just focussed on playing tighthead and want him to get a big number of minutes under his belt.