Is Shane Warne Australia's Michael Jordan?

Shane Warne or any other athlete should not be mentioned even in the same sentence as Michael Jordan because Jordan was not only the greatest basketball players of all time he was also in my opinion the greatest sporting champion of all time. The writer forgets to mention that Jordan returned to the NBA for the Wizards not to further his illustrious playing career but rather in the role of player / mentor / on court coach to his young team. Even at age 40 he nailed much younger players in the NBA for a fifty pointy game and a couple of trade mark buzzer beating game winners. Having said that, it is a well accepted fact that Jordan's competitve playing days came to an end after he he scored 4 points (45 in all) and made a steal in the last 30 seconds of game 6 of the 1998 finals which propelled Chicago to their 6th Championship and 2nd three-peat. The debate with reagrds to the greatest sporstman of all time is one that is likely to go on for as long as this world exists. My choice for the deserved tag of greatest sportsman of all time without a shadow of doubt would be the legendary and Iconic basketball superstar Michael Jordan. First, the preface: an athlete has to be someone who engages in a rigorous sport for which conditioning and skills such as speed, strength, and endurance are a factor. Second, the premise: the greatest athlete or sportsman of all-time is someone who dominated his or her sport and remained at the top for a long period of time while making the impossible seem routine day in day out or night in night out and had an impact on the game like no one else has or possibly will. Third and MOST IMPORTANTLY: the greatest sportsman of all time is someone who was a serial natural born winner for the majority of his or her career. Someone who thrived under enormous pressure and lifted his or her game to a different level and delivered when it mattered the most and whose scintillating individual performance made all the difference between winning and losing day in and day out for many, many years and someone who managed to work with an average team and later transformed that very team and it’s players to a championship outfit by pushing his or her team-mates to become the best they possibly can. Before I go into why I think Michael Jordan is the greatest athlete of all time to play any sport let us take a look at how Jordan’s illustrious career evolved over the years. Jordan’s competitive playing career came to an end in 1998 and his return to the basketball court as a player in 2001 for the Washington Wizards was mainly as a player / mentor to his team of which he was a part owner at the time. Hence this blog will focus on Jordan’s accomplishments during his illustrious competitive career spanning some 14 years between 1984 and 1998. Michael Jordan ultimately revolutionized the position of superstar in the NBA. He averaged 28.2 points per game as a rookie and was voted in as an All-Star starter by the fans. He received so much media attention that NBA players around the league became upset about the amount of attention that Jordan was receiving. During the All-Star game in Jordan’s rookie year, veteran Isaiah Thomas (member of the Detroit Pistons "Bad Boys" that later went on to have their own controversial rules they called the "Jordan rules" to stop a rampaging Jordan) led a “freeze-out” on Jordan, where players refused to pass Jordan the ball during the game. After missing virtually the entire 1986 NBA season after sustaining a broken foot, Jordan returned to his old form in the 1987season, posting his best season ever, and the most prolific scoring season in NBA history by anybody not named Wilt Chamberlain. Jordan averaged 37.1 points per game and became the only player besides Wilt Chamberlain to score more than 3,000 points in a season. He also demonstrated his defensive prowess, as he became the first NBA player to record more than 200 steals and 100 blocks in a single season. He finished a close second to Magic Johnson in the MVP voting. In 1988, Jordan earned his first regular-season MVP award. He averaged 35.0 points per game on 53.5% field goal shooting. He earned his lone Defensive Player of the Year award, while becoming the first of two players to win the MVP award and the Defensive Player of the Year award in the same season. Jordan continued his dominance for five more years. He won every scoring title, giving him a record-tying seven in a row. Jordan learned to shoot the three-point shot in 1989, making 27 shots—only four less than his first four seasons combined. In 1990, MJ successfully nailed 92 three-pointers, at a 37.6 success rate. His defense never wavered either, as Jordan led the league in steals three separate times before his first retirement (1988, 1990, and 1993). After his first retirement from the NBA in 1993, Jordan attempted to pursue a professional baseball career, trying to fulfill the wish of his late father James Jordan, who had been murdered a year ago. James Jordan had always wanted his son Michael to become a professional baseball player. Baseball didn't work for Michael and he rejoined the NBA in the middle of the 1995 NBA season. Jordan started off slowly, but then scored 55 points in just his sixth game back. Jordan picked up right where he left off for the next three seasons. He earned three more scoring titles, and his career mark of ten tied Wilt Chamberlain for first all-time. He played every game in those three seasons (246 in a row). While Jordan stood head and shoulders above his peers during the regular season he took his game to another level and was even better during the playoffs. Jordan had ice water in his veins and made virtually no mistakes in his playoff career, which included only two seventh games (both of which he won). Michael won six NBA championships—in 1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, and 1998. His team has never lost in the NBA Finals, In fact, Michael earned Finals MVP honors in all six of his series. His six MVP awards double the record currently shared by former Lakers guard Magic Johnson, former Lakers center Shaquille O'Neal, and current Spurs forward Tim Duncan. In 1985, Michael missed 63 games in the regular season due to a broken foot, but returned to lead the 30-52 Bulls into the playoffs, where they faced Larry Bird and the Boston Celtics, who won 40 of their 41 home games during the regular season. MJ's Bulls were swept by the Celtics. However, Jordan averaged a postseason series record 43.7 points per game, including 63 in game two. Although the Bulls lost in double overtime, Larry Bird described Jordan's performance as one of the greatest that he had ever seen. He even stated that Jordan was “God disguised as Michael Jordan.” Michael Jordan's Bulls, a team that finished 22 games under .500 during the regular season, would have needed just one more point in regulation to defeat the mighty Celtics in their home turf. Jordan's 63 points in one playoff game is a still-standing NBA record for a playoff game. In 1988, the Bulls posted their first winning season with MJ, and defeated the Cleveland Cavaliers in five games in the first round of the postseason. They were then defeated by the Detroit Pistons, led by Isaiah Thomas and the “Bad Boys”. As oppose to the timid basketball that we witness today as a result of the hand checking rule that came into being some years back, the “Bad Boys” of Detroit came with a plan to physically beat up Jordan with hard fouls every time he drove the lane. These tactics employed by the “Bad Boys of Detroit later became known as the “Jordan Rules”. It was their way of trying to stop a man who was unstoppable. Jordan going through a triple team set up by the "Bad boys" of Detroit who did everything they can legal and illegal to stop Jordan but failed. In 1989, Jordan led the Bulls into the Eastern Conference Finals, after victories against the Cavaliers and the Knicks. The Cavaliers series was highlighted by one of the greatest moments in basketball history. With the series in the deciding fifth game, and the Bulls down by one with seconds to play, Jordan, with 42 points already, launched a game-winning jump shot over the head of Cavaliers guard Craig Ehlo. The lasting image of Jordan leaping into the air, fist pumping, in an emphatic celebration, is one of the most treasured images in sports history. The Bulls ran out of gas in the Eastern Conference Finals against the Detroit Pistons. The Pistons employed the “Jordan Rules” against MJ, double and triple teaming every time he touched the ball basically playing brutal 5 on 1 basketball. The tactic worked, and the Bulls were defeated in six games. In 1990, the Jordan-led Bulls again advanced to the Eastern Conference Finals, after defeating the Milwaukee Bucks and Philadelphia 76ers. However, the Bulls were defeated in seven games, their third straight postseason exit at the hands of the Detroit Pistons. The 1991 Bulls won their first division title in sixteen years, setting a franchise-record with 61 wins. They beat the Knicks and the 76ers in the first two rounds of the postseason, before facing the Pistons for the fourth consecutive year. This time, when the Pistons employed their “Jordan Rules”, Jordan picked them apart and the Bulls stunned the basketball world with a four-game sweep. Isaiah Thomas led his team off the court in the final seconds of the fourth game of the series, refusing to shake hands with Jordan and the rest of the Bulls. It was a classic moment that would ultimately symbolize the end of one dynasty and the start of another. In the 1991 NBA Finals, the Bulls picked apart Magic Johnson’s Lakers in five games, highlighted by Jordan's signature play in Game 2, in which, while attempting to avoid a Lakers block, MJ switched hands mid-air on a layup which in my opinion is the greatest move / play ever seen in sports history. His “scoop shot” was the last of 13 consecutive field goals in the game by Jordan. The 1992 Bulls won a franchise-record 67 games and earned their second consecutive NBA championship. Game 1 of the NBA Finals featured what is now known as the Jordan Shrug. After scoring a Finals-record 35 points in the first half, including six three-pointers, Jordan shrugged as he headed upcourt, as if professing that even he was surprised by what he had accomplished. The Bulls earned a three-peat in 1993 over the Phoenix Suns and MVP Charles Barkley. Jordan averaged a Finals-record 41 points per game in the series, including four straight games of forty or more points. After returning from retirement in the middle of the 1995 season, Jordan trained vigorously in the offseason and led the Bulls to an NBA-record 72 wins in the regular season in 1996. The Bulls defeated the Seattle Super-Sonics in six games during the NBA Finals. Overall, they won 16 out of 19 playoff games and solidified their reputation as the greatest single-season team in NBA history. Jordan’s Bulls had now become the Beatles of the Sports world. They were loved, admired and revered by all and sundry in every corner of the World. Everybody wanted “be like Mike” but that ambition remains a dream up until today as no one has emerged that even remotely looks like they can get anywhere near Michael Jordan as the greatest player to ever play the game of basketball. Jordan led the Bulls to 69 wins in 1997 and a fifth NBA championship. He won Game 1 with a buzzer-beating jump shot. In Game 5, with the series tied 2-2, he turned in one of the most legendary performances in sports history, now known simply as the “Flu Game.” Jordan was informed by doctors that he was suffering from food poisoning and was not allowed to play in the game. He emerged for the game anyway, and scored 38 points for the Bulls, including the game-winning three-pointer with under a minute to play. Jordan collapsed into teammate Scottie Pippen's arms after the game. He earned his fifth NBA Finals MVP award. Jordan's final NBA championship came in 1998. The Bulls survived a seven-game series with the Indiana Pacers in the Eastern Conference Finals, Jordan's first seven-game series since 1992. In the sixth game of the Finals, the Bulls led three games to two, but trailed by three with 40 seconds to play. After nailing a layup, Jordan stole the ball right out of Karl Malone's hands. He dribbled upcourt, faked right, crossed over to the left, and let loose a shot that has become the signature play of his NBA career. As the shot dropped through the net, the Bulls had secured their sixth NBA championship of the decade. In fact the last 40 seconds of the 1998 NBA finals perfectly exemplifies Michael Jordan’s dominance in the defensive and offensive end of the court like no other and his incredible and uncanny ability to deliver in the clutch again like no other in all of sports. When I watched Jordan play, I simply got the sense that he was head and shoulders above everyone else, despite being only 6-foot-6 in a game dominated by giants. It was almost as if he was toying with the other players; always pacing himself and relying on his teammates until crunch time, during which he delivered like no one else. In terms of speed, body control, leaping ability, physical conditioning, and explosiveness and ability in the clutch there wasn’t anyone better in his sport. Jordan hit 28 game winning buzzer beaters and 32 game winners with seconds left in the game in a career spanning 14 years. His career scoring average is the best in NBA history while his scoring average in the playoffs is even higher and also the best in NBA history. Jordan’s 63 points against the Celtics to date remains the highest by anyone in a NBA playoff game. Jordan was famously referred to as "Mr. 4th quarter" because being the Champion that he is he almost always saved his best for the final 12 minutes of the game and delivered for his team when it mattered. The legendary guard of the Detroit Pistons Jo Dumas once said “everybody in the opposition team knew that 95% of the plays in the 4th quarter were drawn for Jordan by the Bulls coach and the other 5% usually ends up with him as well and still teams could not stop him”. Just like he did on the basketball court, off the court too Michael Jordan influenced the game of basketball like no other athlete has or probably will in any other sport. The Forbes magazine once dubbed him the "$10 billion dollar man" for his overall financial impact on the US economy. Jordan transformed the game of basketball and the NBA from a sport and league that was largely confined to the US to a sport and league that became hugely popular all over the world and had a cult following even in far away places such as Japan, China and Australia. When Jordan entered the league in 1984 the NBA had worldwide sales of merchandise to the tune of $44 million and by the time he retired in 1998 the NBA was selling merchandise around the world to the tune of some $3.1 billion and Jordan's global popularity and incomparable fan following is largely credited for this phenominal rise. It was reported that every time Jordan stepped on to the basketball court at the United Center the city of Chicago made more than $8 to $10 million. Jordan’s number '23 was the number that every other top athlete wanted on their respective team shirts. The likes of David Beckham and Shane Warne have openly admitted that it was their unbridled admiration for Michael Jordan, the greatest winner the sports world has ever seen, that inspired them to have number '23 on their respective team shirts as well. Arantxa Sánchez Vicario when asked what her greatest moment of the 1992 Olympics in her home Country was she said “getting the opportunity to meet my idol Michael Jordan” Ronaldinho went from FIFA player of the year to an excitable kid like persona when he got the good fortune of meeting Michael Jordan. Guys like Warne and Beckham chose number 23 for their team jersey in honour of the sports world's greatest champion Michael Jordan. The Chicago Bulls tickets were sold out for home and away games every season as both at home and away people came in their numbers to watch one man; Michael Jordan. The Bulls home game average attendance was around 6,000 before Jordan and this jumped to 23,000 during the Jordan era. The Bulls away game average attendance was around 9,000 before Jordan and this jumped to 22,000 in the Jordan era. In his formative years he was all about individual brilliance the best scorer the game had ever seen and every game Jordan played was like a highlight reel. But then he quickly matured and became brilliant at both ends of the court and then through his unbridled brilliance and hunger to win he pushed average players like Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant and BJ Armstrong (who nobody wanted to pick in the draft) to becoming the best players they possibly can. Pippen went on to become one of the greatest all round players of the game, Grant went on to become a wonderful power forward and BJ over the years went on to run the point as well as anyone else. All average players who Jordan converted into superstars. The Bulls players often talk about how they hated practice sessions and preferred games because come game time they did not have to face Jordan but at practice they had to. Often Jordan would switch sides when the Bulls squad played practice games and Jordan use to play those games like a man possessed with the same intensity with which he played in the NBA and he used to bully and abuse his team-mates who did not keep up with him. Such was his incredible hunger to win and push his team-mates to have that winning attitude. Come game time Jordan not only made his average team-mates look way above average he also took over the game in the clutch which was the final 12 minutes and during that period a Bulls game almost always became a 5 on 1 scenario where by it was Jordan against the 5 of the opposition. Jordan did this night in and night out for years and made the impossible and unimaginable seem routine. When Jordan first retired after the Bulls three-peat in 1993 and was away from the game for 18 months, the exact same Bulls team minus Jordan went from World Champions to whipping boys of the NBA. In 1994 in the playoffs the Bulls for the first time lost to the NY Knicks a team that Jordan had single-handedly taken to the cleaners for years. Ironically when Jordan returned to the NBA in 1995 in just his 5th game back he hit a trade mark Jordan game winner at the buzzer with five defenders in his face against the Atlanta Hawks and in his very next game (6th game after his return from retirement) Jordan gave one of the most legendary sporting performances ever seen at the MSG in NYC when he scorched the Knicks to a game winning 55 points this despite not having played competitive basketball for 18 months. There is no doubt in my mind that Jordan is by far the greatest sportsman of all time to play any sport because on and off the court what he did and meant to the sport had never been seen before and it is hard to imagine anyone else emulating Jordan in the future. Scottie Pippen was this skinny tall kid from Central Arkansas who went from a player who nobody wanted to possibly one of the greatest all round players in the NBA. Its no secret that Jordan had everything to do with Scottie's amazing transformation. Rodman had two volatile years with the San Antonio Spurs and then was let go because none in that team could handle his wild behaviour. He came to Chicago and Jordan managed to keep him in check but that did not stop Rodman from getting himself into trouble often and missing games etc, etc. Also, When Jordan first retired after the Bulls had their first three-peat in 1993 and was away from the game for 18 months, Scottie Pippen was expected to carry on the good work and lead the team into the finals but the exact same Bulls team minus Jordan went from World Champions to whipping boys of the NBA. Without Jordan the Bulls in other words were nothing. Jordan was the difference betweeen Chicago winning and Chicago losing. Yes the '94 Bulls team did reach the Eastern Conference play-offs and lost to the NY Knicks for the very first time in a play off series. So from a team that won the championship for 3 consecutive years in '91, '92 and 93 the Bulls minus Jordan were not even able to make the finals of the Eastern Conference let alone the NBA finals. When Jordan came back they went on to win 3 more championships. Without Jordan the Bulls were nothing. The amazing thing is that when Jordan came back from retirement a lot of people (including die hard Jordan fans like me)were doubtful whether Jordan could be as good as he was when he retired in 1993. The league had changed, the era of the guard they said was over and the big boys in the paint like Shaq and Hakeem Olajuwan were the dominant players in the game and Jordan they said will fall short. But Jordan lives for a challenge and not only did he show the world that he still is as good as he always was, he was even better and lead the the Bulls to three more consecutive championships including possibly the greatest finals performance in NBA history when at age 35 and with his sidekick Scottie Pippen on the bench for most of game 6, Jordan scored 45 points including the game winner with less than 5 seconds to go and sealed his place not just as the greatest basketball player of all time but also as the greatest sportsman of all time to play any sport. If you look back at Jordan's career most of his most memorable legendary performances all through his 15 year career came in the play-offs and mostly in the finals. The way he lifted his game at will when it matterd night in and night out and single-handedly won key matches and championships for his team was simply and utterly unbelievable. That is why to me he is by far the greatest sportsman of all time. That is also why Michael Jordan has become the standard by which excellence is measured not just in sport but in other fields as well as that is why you often here the famous line "He is the Michael Jordan of the corporate World" etc, etc..... In 1994 in the playoffs the Bulls for the first time lost to the NY Knicks a team that Jordan had single-handedly taken to the cleaners for years. Ironically when Jordan returned to the NBA in 1995 in just his 5th game back he hit a trade mark Jordan game winner at the buzzer with five defenders in his face against the Atlanta Hawks and in his very next game (6th game after his return from retirement) Jordan gave one of the most legendary sporting performances ever seen at the MSG in NYC when he scorched the Knicks to a game winning 55 points this despite not having played competitive basketball for 18 months. In the very next year Jordan lead the Bulls to a NBA record 72-10 regular season and then went on to give the city of Chicago three more championships in 1996, 1997 and 1998. What makes Jordan so very special and a once in a lifetime kind of sportsman is because he was by far the best at what he did, his impact on the game is unparalled both on and off the field of play, he converted his average team-mates into superstars and at the end when it mattered in the clutch he was always there to take his team home against all odds and did so with unimaginable alarming consistency that he made the impossible and unthinkable seem routine. Jordan was the best player the game had ever seen during his playing days and even after his retirement in 1998 there is no one in the horizon that even comes close to challenging him as the game’s greatest of all time. Furthermore Jordan never lost in his peak where as Federer, Sampras and even Ali lost in their peak. Jordan brought professionalism and style to sport and he indeed was / is the standard by which sporting excellence is measured and this why the metaphor "He is the Michael Jordan of this and the Michael of that" is widely used to emphasise a person's standing as the best at what they do in their chosen field. Sportsmen and women around the world will /should for ever be indebted to Jordan for it was Jordan who paved the way for massive salaries to be paid to sportsmen and women. For his his final season with the Bulls (1997/98) Jordan was paid US$ 35 million as salary which when you consider that the NBA runs for 6 months this works out to a staggering US$ 1.5 million a week and mind you this was in 1998! That same year Jordan made US$ 45 million via endorsements so his total earnings in 1998 was US$ 80 million and again keep in mind that this was in 1998. “At that moment I knew, surely and clearly, that I was witnessing perfection. He stood before us, suspended above the earth, free from all its laws like a work of art, and I knew, just as surely and clearly, that life is not a work of art, and that the moment could not last. Michael Jordan, the best there ever was and the best there ever will be”

It may be hard to believe but he was the greatest. adn no one's gotten close since... No one else has done more in every facet of the game of basketball - 5 x Most Valuable player, 6 x most valuable player in the finals ( and he won every time he went to the finals. The leagues top scorer for 10 seasons, lead the NBA 3x in steals as well during those seasons and won a defensive player of the year award ( and came 3rd twice in for that award.. ) !!! Sure Kobe Bryant scored more points in one game once, Bill Russle has more championship rings but the sum of his parts makes Jordan that much better. Its like combining Tendulka's batting with Warne's bowling and Ricky Pointing's Fielding.. IN THE SAME PLAYER ! Let alone the leadership and ability to make players around him better .

Lee, two comments. One, while I agree that Jordan with Washington was nowhere near the player he once was (he was indeed Jordan lite as you said), he was still really good. No other 40 year-old has averaged 20 PPG. Two, this isn't exactly a comeback. This is 20/20, plus it's not even international cricket. As such I don't think you can compare it to Jordan, whom at least rejoined the NBA. Anyway, I really don't think his legacy will be tarnished at all. Let's say he tanks. Would anybody care? Alternatively, if he dominates, would anybody remember? It will be interesting to see how he goes, and it might be entertaining, however I don't think anybody should take it seriously.

"What’s with all this greatest athlete crap?" Oh, for lord's sake. If is possible for you to engage in polite discussion? Asking someone what's with the .. crap is just pathetic. However, obviously I was speaking in a generic sense. I should have said sportsmen. "Michael Jordan was a basketball player, who gives a rats about his athletic ability." For someone who doesn't give a rats/toss, you seem to care an awful lot. Anyway, yes, he's a basketball player, however that doesn't mean he didn't possess incredible athletic ability. If you knew anything about basketball, you would realize that some basketball players were/are incredible athletes (and I am using that word in the specific sense.) Jordan, Dr J, Vince Carter, etc.... are awesome athletes. "Warne’s one of the greats in his game–one of the biggest games in the world–without ever getting close to being one of the greatest athletes of all time." If by athlete, you mean sportsmen, which is what I meant, then I do think he is one of the greatest of all time.

"Michael Jordan didn’t compete in athletics" When I use the term athlete, I am doing so in a generic sense. Would you be happier if I had said sportsmen? "so who gives a toss whether you consider him as one of the five greatest athletes" Obviously you do, since you responded. Thanks though. That, instead of engaging in a mature discussion, you resort to silly and unnecessary insults indicates to me that I don't need to take anything you say seriously. "He was a basketballer" Really? I had no idea. "and there have been better basketballers than him for sure." I disagree, if that's okay with you. I consider him to be the best basketball player of all time (for sure), and one of the five greatest SPORTSMEN of all time. BTW, you can stop with the mate nonsense.

What's with all this greatest athlete crap? Michael Jordan was a basketball player, who gives a rats about his athletic ability. Warne's one of the greats in his game--one of the biggest games in the world--without ever getting close to being one of the greatest athletes of all time.

Mate, Michael Jordan didn't compete in athletics, so who gives a toss whether you consider him as one of the five greatest athletes. He was a basketballer and there have been better basketballers than him for sure.

You can tell you're not a real basketball fan--Jordan doesn't even make it in my top five. Maybe number five if I'm feeling generous. Warne inhabits about the same space in cricket, so makes sense that they're compared--they both had/have great PR men as well.

I know amazaonfan I am not the only basketball fan 100% true, i was a big NBA fan of 60's 70's 80's 90's NBA. Greta days of basketball. NBA lost me after year 2000 for many reasons. Used ot love how checking was part of NBA such hard defence then, and wish NBA 3 point line was not brought in, but apparently they have pushed it back agin which is good. Today's NBA greta athletes but not the week ot week excitement of say 80's or 90's, so many good players and perosanlites then. But i will say this MJ was not willing to come back unless he had a small forwad of the standard or Barkley or Scottie Pippen. MJ you see was a brand like some of the wallabies are trying to market themselves, MJ in his prime failure was humiliating to him once he won those championships. So he needed the right players. He lost vs Hakkeem and houstong rockets when he cmae back end of season, i don't blame that on total court rust he was pretty fit and training all the time, just hakeem was one classy player. But athletic ability and sports ability are different. Sport is a game not how big a player is or how fast but a game. Just as boxing is not a street fight. Pierre Spies is probably the most athletically gifted rugby player maybe ever but he is not the best rugby player in the world for lots of reasons. Tsonga or Phillopuosus or gial monfis maybe most powerful or most athletic tennis players and same with mart satin but not nessicalry the best tennis players with in the rules of the sport. Tennis is 5 sets not 1 game or 1 set and endurance and mental strength play a part eg federer lots of mental strength and raffia amazon fan. And same with surfing kelly slater may not be best big ride extreme sport surfer but under surf rules i think it is i don't know how points are done but he is best under the major surf body that runs surfing. Yes popularity has to come into it no doubt but surfing, and squash, and cricket are all big enough to be counteded as having enough talent in the sport, basketball in MJ's prime was only big in USA and eastern europe, and pockets of brazil and niche markets in australia. But USA big population. Sergi bubka record is phenomal and there are still enough pole vaulters around to recognise Bubka's efforts, as great. And Usain Bolt i would argue is greater than MJ to, his times are phenominall, and warney to is defiantly in MJ league of not higher. We will agree to disagree on how great MJ is compared to other great amzaonfan. I would also say amazon fan Wayen Gretzky and Tiger woods are better than MJ too more dominant in there sports. Is ice hockey and golf bigger enough sports participation wise for you amazonfan, i think they should be for what it is worth. And i also say this Richie Mcgaw stats are amazing and now he has won world title he must be considered in MJ and warney's league. Warney amazon fan was phenomenal wanner was not over rated, and i think MJ was. ANd amzaonfan you would know about basketball and know about James worthy. It was James worthy who was the star at MJ North Carolina NCAA college title and in the grand final not MJ and Jamed worthy did not get the credit, i have watched the match about 5 times.. James worrthy had an amazing jump shot for a big man LA i think would of won the 1991 NBA title had worthy been fit, and MJ found magic to hot to handle thats why they put pippin on him ot marginally contain Majic. And shaq was an amazing basketball player amazon fan his playoff stats were even better than jordan when he won the titles with LA. 7'2 athletic big man, he was the top man at LA not Kobe when they won the titles together rit was Sahqs team amazon fan. SO the sport sof surfing,ice hockey,squash, pole vault, cricket, golf ar econsdiered big enough ot be compered ot basketball now and when MJ wa splaying when basketball was not as big world wide as it is today amazonfan No amzaonfan MJ only came back yes he had the hunger but he was only going ot come back as long as Scottie Pippen was going to stay, coz MJ knew he needed socttie to play hard post up Defence, and also some one like a hoarse grant or dennis rodman. MJ was greta but athletic ability is not sport. SPor ti s a game just because a player is flashy or atheltic

I love Warne, however I don't see how you can say that he's better than Jordan. Jordan was IMO one of the five greatest athletes of all time. I also don't see how you can that Heather McKay, who played squash, and Kelly Slater, a surfer, are superior to MJ. There has to be a point where the popularity of the sport plays a role in determining how good its participants are in comparison to participants of other sports. "MJ never won a title with out scott pippin, yes zero with no Scottie Pippen." Just like Russell never won without Cousy, Jones or Havlicek; KAJ never won with Oscar Robertson or Magic; Magic never won without Kareem; Bird never won without McHale or Parish; Shaq never won without Kobe or Wade. The reality is that there has never been a single example of a star winning multiple titles without another hall of famer. Even Hakeem had Drexler's help in the second title. "Scottie Pippen has the best stats of his career the season after Jordan left." I don't see the relevance of that. Pippen was a great player, however that does not lessen Jordan's brilliance. Jordan was in many ways the perfect player; an offensive genius, a magnificent defender, magnificent playmaker, great rebounder and shot blocker, awesome in the clutch etc... "MJ only made a comeback on the condition that scott Pippen stay at chicago bull..." No, while he was certainly happy that Pippen was staying put, he would have returned regardless. "rt MJ is not even a clear cut no 1and i am a basketball fan, and know basketball history well." You're not the only one, and IMO Jordan is a clear cut number 1.

"MJ won zero championships with out scott pippin yes zero. That is a fact." That's irrelevant. Every multiple champion had help. Do you think that Russell or Magic or Bird did it all on their own? "H sonly came back on the provision soccite pippin stayed at chicago bulls." Not true. He came back because he rediscovered his hunger. Read some of the books written around the time, such as by Bob Greene.

CLipper good points as well. Sir Richard Hadlle clearly was and i am not a kiwi but a phnemomal cricket player especially bowling. Right up there with , Lille, mcgrath,ambrose,dev,khan,marshall, no question. And he was handy batsman as well an all rounder,probably shaun pollock standard batsman or mitchell johnson, or stuart broad. A good 7 or 8. ANd yes sport is a game and sports greatness should be based on not athletic ability or height or weight or gender, but based on achievements in there sport. Heather mcaky, margaret court, rod laver great records.Kelly slater, sergi bubka to i would also say are greater than mJ, and Tiger woods and Usian Bolt also. Sport achievement is not about what is most popular or richest form sprt, but how dominant palyer was. Basciall all these examples especially kelly slater, serge bubka, heather mckay, Micheal phelps, wayne gretzky, and probably tiger woods are no question no 1 in there chosen sport MJ is not even a clear cut no 1and i am a basketball fan, and know basketball history well. Wilt chamberlin Bill Russell Oscar Robertson Majic Johnson Larry Bird even Shaq(Shaq in his prime his NBA grand final play off records were phenomenal Shaq is a 7'2 massive mean and tonnes of atheltism jordan different position but 6'6. Shaq was almost unstobbale when he won titles with LA So much debate mJ great of course but hyped up for corporate world, and by media and marketing. Where as warney is clearly no1 spinner of all time. SO maybe Wareny was greater than MJ in his chosen sport.

i think Kelly slater, or Heather mckay or Sergi Bubka and maybe shane warne are greater than MJ. MJ was hyped up massively by the corporate world, media and marketing hype for $$$millions. Greatplayer no question but with MJ it is even debatable weatherr he was no 1 in his chosen sport (Wilt Chamberlin, Bill Russell, Majic johnson, oscar robertson , kareem, all put up compelling cases ot be as great if not better than MJ. The others above in 1st sentacne there is no question they were no 1 in there chosen sports. Where as warney may even be no 1 player of all time with maybe only Don bradman challenging him for the title, and maybe A FEW PLAYERS LIEK viv richards and garfield sobers types challenging warney and the Don. I am a basketball fan and have watched MJ all his career and he was greta no question, but he had massive whelp form scott pippin. MJ won zero championships with out scott pippin yes zero. That is a fact. H sonly came back on the provision soccite pippin stayed at chicago bulls. I think Shane warnes career beinifted to massively having the great glen mcgrath there. Think how great Sir richard Haddle would of been even greater than he already was, had he had a world class spinner in tandem with him. And Kapil Dev and Imran khan had ot shoulder a lot of the pace bowling load for there teams with no other class fast bowlers.

Agree with you on a few points, Johnno. Does monetary worth or being an American mean that your status is somehow more elevated? Heather McKay would have only earned a mere fraction of MJ, but are her achievements diminished because of this? Shane Warne, no matter what you think of him, had a stellar career, and would be one of the greats of all time. He would have certainly been helped by the other great bowlers Australia had at the time (and also helped them). This is something Hadlee did not enjoy, which shows what a powerful figure he was - to propel New Zealand to be one of the top sides during his tenure (behind the Windies of course). I don't think the big bash will tarnish his legacy, as none of it will diminish his test or one day statistics, and may even enhance it if he does well.

Is Jordan a bit of a tool?

How is it insulting to Jordan that he be compared to Warne? Warne was arguably the greatest bowler of all time, and quite possibly the greatest cricketer (along with maybe Tendulkar) since Sobers. How is he also not one of the greatest athletes to ever live? I adore Jordan, I think he was one of the five greatest athletes of all time, however I think you and WoobliesFan are completely denying Warne his due. He is also a magnificent athlete, and I think anybody should feel flattered to be compared to Warne.

He was definitely Jordan Lite when he came back, you're right. He had his moments and a few old timer tricks to keep himself gonig. I think was Adam is saying is that Jordan still managed to have a 3rd career with over 20ppg still - something 85% of the league will probably never achieve in a single season!