Stats say Kallis is greatest of his generation

In terms of statistics Jacques Kallis is the best allrounder of all time and the best cricketer of the modern age.It is arguable whether he is the best cricketer of the modern generation as he could not consistently change the complexion of match like Brian Lara or Sachin Tendulkar,simply not posessing equal flamboyance.I agree Lara championed losing causes mainly but he also won some games in dramatic style like the 1999 test at Barbados v Australia where his 153 not out singelhandedly won a game in a run chase on a broken wicket.Lara also scored more mammoth scores than any great batsman.Nor did Kallis exude Tendulkar's impact in matches ,particularly in the peak period of his career.Tendulkar posessed all the ingredients of a perfect batsman more than any batsman ever and cosnidering the pressure he faced would still be my choice Visualize scoring 100 centuries,something no cricketer will ever achieve.Kallis would have won my vote if he championed the cause with bat and ball consistently in test matches and series like Sobers and Ian Botham at this peak.Kallis although as good as Gary Sobers in a crisis as a batsman ,lacks the consistent match-winning brilliance of Sobers and Imran Khan as a cricketer and similarly cannot dominate bowling attacks as consistently as Tendulkar,Ponting and Lara.Cricket is not all bout statistics and is also about art.Overall I still think Sachin and Lara have made a greater impact. As an allrounder I would rate Kallis as the best of the modern age but still behind Gary Sobers,arguably the best cricketer of all,Keith Miller would also edge out Kallis as he was equally adept with bat and ball.The highest I could award Kallis is the 3rd rank,behind Sobers and Miller.Overall I would rate Don Bradman,Jack Hobbs,W.G.Grace,Gary Sobers,Shane Warne Viv Richards,Sachin Tendulkar,Sydney Barnes,Adam Gichrist Imran Khan,Keith Miller,Muthiah Murlitahran , Dennis Lillee and Malcolm Marshall ahead of Kallis overall in terms of impact made.Thus Kallis may still rank amongst the 15 best cricketers of all time,an accomplishment in itself.

In my eyes Kallis early on was all about making his stats and didn't really care for much else ( he'd score at a strike rate of 30, but as long as he got runs who cares). His batting was always top class and his bowling was more than what you would get out of most medium pace bowlers. The guy would score 50's, 100's and then chip in and get a 3 or 4 for, outstanding cricketer. Dominating world cricket was what Kallis did best. But for years playing test cricket he could never get that double ton (which i think makes a test batsmen). It took longer than most people expected from such a classy batsmen but once he got it he has become a completely different player. His game the last 4-5 years has stepped up big time, scoring quick runs, dominating the bowlers and helping his team win. I rate him top a 5 batsmen in this generation. And his overall skill of being an outstanding slips fieldsmen and coming in at 1st or 2nd change for a classy Sth African team some people could call him the best all round player in the last 20 years.

I found some stats I had written down re Sobers & Kallis some time ago, since this topic tends to be revisited every so often. Both have struggled against Australia despite their careers being about 30-35 year apart. Sobers averaged 43 in 19 tests against Australia, Kallis 39 in 26 tests. Both had a weak spot against a particular nation. Sobers managed just 24 in 12 tests against NZ. This is unexplainable as NZ weren't strong in his day (perhaps he didn't feel motivated for the challenge). Kallis struggled for 32 in 14 tests against SL, although Murali might have troubled him. Sobers was brutal against England, who were a mostly strong side throughout the 50s & 60s, averaging 61 in 36 tests. By comparison, Kallis has struggled against England, with an average of 43 in 28 tests. Sobers averaged over 80 against both India & Pakistan, while Kallis has also scored heavily, between 66-75, against West Indies, India, pakistan & new Zealand. Kallis has done exceptionally well against the minnows Bangladesh & Zimbabwe. In 6 tests against each, he has averaged 79 against Bangladesh & a whopping 170 against Zimbabwe. As mentioned by others, Kallis' great characteristic is his high level of consistency. However, Sobers has been far more dominant when the occasion demanded.

I am an Indian and i absolutely agree with you Johnno, he indeed is a flat track bully and can't play against good bowling like McGrath or Dale Steyn or even this new bowling attack, australia has just unleashed......

Sheek bring it on mate 1 billion to win i'm not scared lol.

I think most of the views expressed here, and summed up to a degree by Lindsay, are valid but suffer from the poster only having watched JK play in Australia. Over the summers I have seen him dominate and "kill" opposition attacks at his home ground of Newlands in Cape Town on a regular basis; often in his usual style of anchoring the innings slowly from 40/2 and accelerating against the lesser bowlers. It should be remembered that the Proteas were an extremely inexperienced unit when JK made his debut in 1995 and he rarely got to the wicket with a platform laid by the top 3 or 4. Most often it was up to him to bat the team out of trouble first and I think this responsibility has influenced his approach to batting down the years. Certainly where others of his age or "generation" are slowing down, he seems to still be close to his best.

Oh Johnno, you heading out soon? There's several billion angry Indians heading towards your home as we speak.....

Yes Jason, The batsmen of the 60s weren't obsessed with averages the way today's generation of fans are. If they had known how much the fans of 2000s would have 'gone ape' over stats, they might have had a different attitude! Then there's Victor Trumper, way back from the so-called "golden age" from about 1890-1915. Back when sport was a diversion & test cricket was still a novelty. It is said that Trumper would only remain at the crease as long as necessary to establish his side's innings, then hit out. His batting average of 39 looks woeful besides Kallis' 57. ' But Trumper played on poorly mowed 'cow paddocks compared to today's flat & trimmed 'glass' greens. He also played on uncovered pitches at the mercy & whim of the weather, & his batting protection consisted of stilted pads, a groin protecter (perhaps), skin thin gloves & ubiquitous baggy green cap. And he batted mostly for fun. Far removed in almost every sense from today's pampered professionals.....

I'd take Tendulkar over Phil Hughes I reckon.

Anyone is better than that over rated flat track bully Tendulkar.

Yeah, I agree. Obviously by having a Kallis, Dravid and Tendulkar as bankers in your side allows you to pick the more mercurial players like Lara or Sehwag. (I would put Ponting somewhere in between. In his "Bradman" phase from 2002 to 2008 Ponting was an 80 runs off 120 balls type of banker. Sanga is approaching that level as well). But when it's all said and done, history remembers the Lara types (whith their higher highs) far more easily than the Kallis types. Perhaps an analagy could be made with Denis Compton and Ken Barrington. Barrington has a studendous average and was about as consistent as any batsman to play the sport and by all reports and outstanding team mate. But Compton is the one who is looked back upon as the greater player and is almost inevitably picked ahead of Barrington in AT England XIs.

Speaking of those intangibles, the one Kallis has the most of is consistency. He isn't the match winner but you'd lay odds on him scoring a half-century and taking a couple of wickets pretty much every match. In the same manner you could bank on Glenn McGrath going for fewer than 4 runs an over in an ODI at his peak. As a captain you want a couple of steady consistent guys in your side as well as the match-winners who can just demolish an attack/batting lineup. For mine that is what sets Kallis apart and why he would make an XI ahead of other all-rounders. But it is subjective.

Yes. It's exactly why statistics don't tell the whole story. Lara when turned on was thrilling, match winning and virtually bowlable to. Just because he wasn't turned on as often as Kallis and Tenddulkar doesn't mean he wasn't a greater batsman. Actually, it does raise the question as to what constitutes "greatness". Do you look at peaks, do you look at consistency, how to you value intangibles? I guess it is a bit of everything but then different people can reasonably put different values on different elements meaning that different people can quite reasonably come up with different "greatest" players.

Lara is however the batsmen I would most like to see in full flight (well after Bradman who was well before my time).

You do wonder what Sobers would have been like with modern bats and on roped in grounds. If you watch footage of his 6 6s in an over it is astonishing how hard he has to swing to get the ball out of the ground. See here: See here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWA7wYKcPGo Compare that to the likes of Gayle who short arm punch 6s for fun. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2QTQR2gdYY&feature=related

Jason, Thanks for that. I thought Sobers' strike rate might have been in the high 50s, but it's still okay. And still higher than Kallis.

Chris, That's a very relevant question. And I think the results still favour Sobers as being to produce those 'big' series with the ball when needed. Sobers played 93 tests made up of 13 x 5 tests, 3 x 4 tests & 5 x 3 tests. That's 21 series (3-5 tests) that's it not unreasonable to assume a bowler to reach double figures in wickets taken (10 or more). Kallis has played 150 tests to date made up of 5 x 5 tests, 4 x 4 tests & 21 x 3 tests. That's 30 series (3-5 tests) in which he had the opportunity to take 10 or more wickets. Sobers took 3 x 20 wicket hauls in 13 x 5 test series at one 20 wicket haul per 4.25 series. Kallis took one 20 wicket haul in 5 x 5 test series. Sobers reached double figures for wickets taken (10 plus) in a 3 to 5 test series on 13 occasions in 21 series. Kallis' comparison is 9 occasions in 30 series. I hope this makes sense!

Fossie, I would say stats only lie when taken in isolation. They are a most useful tool when considered along with other data.

I agree with this. Kallis is exceptionally consistent to a very high degree. Sobers on the other, could be unplayable, either with bat or ball. Another view is this. Sportsmen are entertainers, & I would pay a lot of money to see Sobers play & be entertained. While I greatly respect Kallis, I don't know if I would be willing to pay to see him play.

Sobers' strike rate was about 53. See http://www.sportstats.com.au/hotscore.html And that in a mostly slow scoring era.