AFL back in black with AC/DC for season 2012 ad

Who is the guy on the ad?

ACDC formed in Perth

Excellent summary MIB - that accords with my understanding of events over 1858-60. And again, people have to not fall for the temptation of looking at thta period through 2012 eyes, but rather have to look at the socio-economic factors that existed in Melbourne at that precise moment, and also understand the various types of football that existed at that point, and also understand that these themselves are derived from forms of folk football that had existed for centuries. So when people start talking about shapes of fields and shapes of balls, as if these somehow carried some sort of meaning back in 1860, they are off on a wild goose chase - it's got nothing to do with anything.

Gee - some people are getting serious - the AC/DC references are being lost!!! careful Mr.Fagan about your own 'misrepresentation'. You assert that I said you said (this is sounding childish already) that "Tom Wills as the code’s sole founder" What I said was "Wills (who get’s almost the exclusive credit from Sean Fagan) ". There is a difference. Now, whilst I agree with you that Wills gets an inordinate amount of attention - and I think due to his letter to the editor of Bells Life - I must point out the folly of your attempt to justify your focus on Wills. Instead of arguing with someone about who invented the 'flat earth theory' - how about instead disprove the 'flat earth theory'. But, I don't think it suits your position on this front to invalidate the amount of previously focussed attention on T.W.Wills. Because, you need the solid links to Rugby. Tom Browns schooldays (lucky he describe this schoolyard version of 'football' rather than Quidditch!!) and Wills attendance at Rugby school (yes, he played football but cricket was still his game). Personally, J.B.Thompson and Hammersley capture my attention. Both attended Trinity College at Cambridge. Both sportsmen and journos, Thompson who at the time (1859-1860 timeframe) was publishing a cricketers 'annual' (Victorian Cricketers Guide) that also included a small football section. In 1859 that included the rules of MFC plus others. In 1860 specifically the Victorian Rules plus those of Eton and Rugby. Hammersley was the man credited with attending the May 1859 rules committee meeting with the rules of Eton, Rugby, Winchester and Harrow. There's no obvious reason to doubt this. Rugby therefore had a 1 in 4 influence of the 4 committee members. Rugby therefore had a 1 in 4 influence in the accounted rule sets considered. However, with 2 in 4 fellows from Cambridge University, perhaps 2 in 4 might've considered the Cambridge Rules of football? At very least 2 in 4 look to have been intelligent enough to be able to consider other rule sets available at the time. After that first committee meeting - it's hard to find evidence of Wills again being involved in Rules review. Certain Thompson and Hammersley were latter in 1859 and by 1860 we saw the Victorian Rules validated by delegates from 9 clubs and no mention of Wills anywhere (although he was on the MFC committee that year, but, he never proved much of an administrator - he also captained Richmond on at least one occassion that year!!). So, I'll agree with Mr.Fagan that Wills should get nearly as much credit as he seems to. And then we can both agree that as a consequence the early games of football in 1858 were not 'rugby' (but, just variations of 'football' as understood at the time which might include similarities to 'rugby' and specifically introduced rules/concepts as understood of the highly localised school of rugby rules) and that the Melb Rules of 1859 were seriously NOT just Rugby minus 2 rules as Fagan has asserted previously.

AC/DC center stage at a night grand final! I would die a happy man.

No ManInBlack - given you're aware of that article I wrote (and therefore the claims others made that triggered it) I've no idea how you concluded yesterday that it was me that was acclaiming Tom Wills as the code's sole founder. All I've challenged is the established myths re the DNA of the code's first rules in the beginning decade of its birth - I've never asserted the code hasn't gone on like AC-DC and John Farnham to be regarded as Australia's own despite their British blood.

Ha ha, yes, jolly good MIB, However, the convicts were hardly a problem, they provided labour as we opened up the country and settled new areas like Melbourne. Also, what is the "twist" that you put on horseracing? Extra drunkeness? And what does the 8 hour day that began in industrial Britain have to do with unique Victorian twists?

TC - beautifully put. Meanwhile for Mr Titus, the question is not about Australia having to put it's twist on anything - becuase, since the 1850s Australia - Melbourne in particular - HAS done it's own twist on things like Football, horse racing and the 8 hour day!!! It's already happened. Back before federation and within 10 years of Victoria gaining independant colony status. So, perhaps Titus should ask why it was that Victoria wanted to put it's own twist on things. I might suggest because the Victorian settlers had better things to think about than just guarding convicts!!!! (this is intended to be read in 'good humour').

never wanting to be accused of misrepresenting any, such as Sean Fagan - I draw upon his logic where he ridiculeed the (and I admit flimsy) notions of deep seeded historical links for Aust Footy to Sydney('s West) from Kevin Sheedy (re Jock McHale born in Botany and moved to Melb age 5) and Tom Wills' mum residing at an orphan school on the banks of the Parramatta for much of her early life. In a 2010 article in the SMH Fagan talks of the ridiculousness of this and using such ironic comparisons - " Yeah right - by the logic of Sheedy and de Moore, Warrington-born Bob Fulton (who moved to NSW when four) is a great of English rugby league, John Farnham (born in Dagenham) is an icon of the British entertainment industry, and AC/DC are one of Scotland's greatest ever bands." And so - to NOT be accused of misrepresenting anyone - let me suggest that using Fagan's own approach here - that calling Aust Football Gaelic, or calling it Rugby, or calling it Soccer is as ridiculous as calling AC/DC one of Scotland's greatest ever bands.

My theory is, that the game of Australian football was formed out of a combination of things, we have Wills, we have the goldfields and huge Irish, Scottish, English, and American influences, not to forget of course Australian born diggers. Remember Castlemaine Football Club was founded in 1859, placing its formation between Melbourne FC and Geelong FC, Wills visited the goldfields before he wrote the new rules. So IMO Wills was exposed to marngrook, rugby, Irish Caid (gaelic), was obviously interested in sport, had his own ideas as well, as well as the other guys putting their ideas forward, and from all those ingredients we get Australian football .......simple.

Yep, the old ..... "he's kicked a sausage roll through the high diddle diddle"...... is one i still use.

I wasn't sure where to mention this, but Collingwood's own TV show: The Club, premiers on Fox Footy tomorrow night: http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/newsfeatures/news/newsarticle/tabid/5586/newsid/131104/default.aspx Sounds like this is a precursor to the pies having their own fully fledged channel (reported in the Age today). Essendon also have their own show coming, not sure when it starts, called: The Hangar.

Just a guess but both sports ( baseball and cricket ) would be linked to rounders, a game that is still played in schools around the country, with a million variations. IMO, Australian football is closely related to Gaelic Football, the Victorian goldfields, and the thousands of Irish there along with English, Scots, Italians, Americans, and of course Australian born people etc al have a part to playin developing our indigenous game, although it must be said that Gaelic football ( the name of the game ) did not exist formally in those days.

Oh really AR, so you aren't an Australian like us? Why are you commenting on our game?

To link Gealic football with Australian football is like linking baseball with cricket, just because both involve hitting a ball with a bat.

on it already! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJFEVAbTzxo

or . . . it's a long wait for a drop to be the winning goal ??

I can recall a favourite schoolboy alternative was: it's a long way, to the shop, if you want a sausage roll, which is appropriate since an aussie rules goal is often referred to as a sausage roll in rhyming slang.

Geez Sean, you have some radar there, whenever any hint of Australian footballing history is in the offing, you're there on the spot. You're article makes a strong case against Wills ever saying: "we'll have a game of our own", even if Harrison's recollection remains one of a handfuldirectly referencing the 1858-59 period. On the other hand, you successfully paint a picture of a group of men looking to play football, and seeking out rules that they all can agree with, and clearly, rugby is one of a number of influences, rather than the only influence, as you often claim. The statue outside the MCG (my avatar no less), commemorates a famed game between to private schools in 1858, pretty much on that same spot, and while it clearly is not a game of Australian Football (the first rules being written up the following year), it is one of a series of documented events that occurred during 1858 in the lead up to the codification of the first set or rules. Wills was involved in a number of those events, so it is correct that he be remembered, but equally, Demetriou is right when he says that others need to be remembered as well. The birth of Australian Football is as much about the socio-economic factors of the day as it is about individuals proffering views on rules (and yes, I agree that the British concept of muscular christianity is very much a part of the mix). But the key point that all must bear in mind is that a lot went into that mix over 1858-59, in part, because of the circumstances of Melbourne town at that point, but equally important was the fact that there were no uniform rules handed down from the mount - they were forced to create their own from whatever it was that they knew at the time, informed from the practical experience from their first scratch matches in 1858. This is precisely why Blainey refers to 1858 as the first football season, even though, it's not and cannot be Australian Football as such, but it's the early experimentation which ultimately led to Australian Football.

Titus I won't wade into the provocative nonsense of your last paragraph. Of course I accept "Australians playing by the Enlgish rules of football"...I myself am one of them! For soccer, rugby or league...Homegrown players, styles or features of play, national competitions etc might be Australian, but they are not Australia's game. Nor is ACDC "Australia's own" by the way, or Russell Crowe or Dale Begg-Smith.