Lies, damned lies and A-League crowd attendances

Brisbane is the sporting capital for NRL with the highest average attandance rates. Melbourne is the sporting capital for AFL with the highest average attandance rates. Melbourne is the sporting capital for HAL with the highest average attandance rates. Brisbane is the sporting capital for ARU with the highest average attandance rates. AFL something like 150 years average about 30-50k HAL 7 seasons?! average about 10k NRL 104 seasons average currently 17k ARU since SUper 10 about 15-30k average. You all want to compare stats i just put them there, clearly AFL wins. THose who want to look at average per capita and teams - Brisbane win (Broncos 35k, Reds 35k, Lions 22k, Roar 13k) (pop of 4.2mill) As NRL has a lot of sydney teams ill pick central Sydney (Rabbits/Bulldogs 22k, Waratahs 17k, Swans 24k, SFC 10k) (6 - 8 mill) AFL -----------------------------------------------------------------------------(COllingwood 54k, Rebels 12k, Storm 15k, Victory 18k) (6-8 mill) Go and prove me wrong, find your statistics, have a look! Dont forget HAL 7 years?!!!! 10k average!!! I support BRoncos, Roar and Reds, so sport codes i am not biased, brisbane potentially, though these are stats not my opinion. I think Brisbane is the sporting capital of Australia. And you melbourne arguies!!! Grand Prix bought by government, AUstralian open same but on a current deal and 2 years ago talk to move was considered, dont move it but still. AFL grand final well you guys love it so fair enough and it too should stay there, what else do you guys have that you can sell out. not NRL, not ARU not even HAL (victory + heart), unfortunately basketball needs to build again. I love being proven wrong so doubters doubt and believers believe!

Average crowds in NSW about 35 000, in Victoria about 28 000.

Ironically where AFL comes from gets far and away the biggest gates in A-League.

Have to disagree with you here TC, beach volleyball IMO is harder to play than indoor, the skills required for beach are harder to muster than indoor, for EX what is usually considered a carry or a double in beach, is usually considered OK in indoor, not only that, but IMO more skill is required playing VB in the elements than indoors, a lot of beach VB's dont bother to use a set, but just use digs to set up their partner, being scared of being called for a carry or double, to get a good dig going is a great skill. In BV, when you set the ball , the ball must not rotate at all, or you will be called for a double. But i agree that womens VB is great viewing LOL.

If you were to compared Great Geelong plus Barwon region (about 290,000) to Central Coast region (about 293,000) I can assure you there's a bigger Aust Footy comp seniors and juniors there (CC) than there is RL in Geelong. Granted some of the Central Coast region sides play in the Newcastle based Black Diamond league, whilst clubs like the Gosford Wildcats play in Div 4 of the AFL Sydney comp. There is footy going on - you can look for it if you want. Granted - it's not in the psyche of people in that region. Who ever said it was?

j binnie - There's a distinction between dominating, being competitive in a market and being in most respects virtually absent from a market. Australian Football dominates all but NSW and QLD. It is competitive in QLD, and is working at being somewhere between 'absent' and 'competitive' in NSW. You speak as though the AFL was absent from the NSW and QLD marketplaces. The NSW and QLD markets themselves are very interesting. The NRL might regard itself the leader but it doesn't 'dominate' in the way the AFL does in the states other than NSW and QLD. The RL vs Soccer battle sees NSW/Sydney with an interesting balance, chuck in RU and AFL. In QLD - no one codes truly dominates. The NRL perhaps should - but doesn't - and the identification by some of the need for a 2nd Brisbane team I think illustrates a major short coming in that market. noting - the many different kpi's - soccer perhaps dominates NSW re participation, but NRL re media, attendances is another measure that relative to AFL dominated states would suggest that the 'leader' in NSW isn't 'dominant'. Whereas the Broncos give Bris to the NRL quite clearly. The AFL now with 2 teams in each of NSW and QLD is a bigger player in the markets but participation wise has a way to go especially in NSW. In QLD all the codes seem far less separated on most figures (ABS stats I'm thinking of here). That's all.

Maninblack . Thats ok, It's unfortunate that we see things differently,you see us in dire straits, I see Oman vs Australia up against Australia vs Vanuatu . I dont necessarily agree that Asian Football is our saviour remember where ranked number 1 in Asia and moved into this region after the World Cup in Germany 06 finishing the tournament in 15 position in the world . I simply see Asia as better competition we wouldnt like to see American Samoa being beaten 31 -0 again would we (completely unfair on everyone) . Brazil here we come .

Bondy - ah, but, remember - Asia is the saviour of Australian Soccer and we see clearly what 1 game by the Socceroos every 6 months or so in town can draw. I would suggest that were the MVFC v Olympiakos game on mid week that it would out draw the Socceroos vs the vast majority of the Asian confederation combatants. What's that tell us about the drawing power of the Socceroos?? In town once every 6 months. Where as the Swans/Lions fans have another game generally within a week or two!! So - gesture of peace here - how about I agree with you that yes, it's far, far better than what was happening back in the day vs the likes of Fiji. (really, you'd wanna be!!!! - better that is). And a factor of 10 applied to a crowd of 2,300 is perhaps more imperssive when you stick with the factor rather than the absolute numbe - - because, the way ICAR and others have been pushing the Socceroos attendances - frankly I expected much, much more. So, forgive me for expecting more and I'll acknowledge that you are happy to be getting better crowds than 2,300.

as with the suggestion of AR - 2 sets of AFL club supporters vs........the entire country. Note too - the Socceroos will have a far, far 'cleaner' stadium (ticketing wise) than any AFL match.

We have 500,000 participants in Victoria or it was the last time I checked about 16 months ago where deeply entrenched down there . Cattery the hypothetical there with Williamson where would afl be ! I think it would still be ok regardless theres enough physicality to the game to lure blokes regardless of era . Good story .

Australian Rules -NO JB?. iIf you can read????? My question?. Did you or did you not present Socceroo international crowd figures thus taking part in a discussion with ICAR. You did???? I simply pointed out to you you should TAKE CARE in comparing TWO SETS OF FIGURES as both are affected by different circumstances.Those different circumstances I spelled out as being 2AFL clubs = 2 sets of supporters,The Socceroo crowds are one set of supporters You appear to deem that "ironic". I deem it a very plausible reason for the differential in the numbers. You appear to agree with that in your last sentence ????????????.jb

No jb If you can read...it was ICAR doing the comparison, I was responding to it. I simply endulged his argument about Socceroos crowds vs AFL crowds, by laying out the actual facts and figures...something he is rarely able to do. And you don't see the irony of your own suggestion that the AFL has some advantage over our National team because it can draw on 2 locally based clubs. Yes, for a Melbourne game you draw on the supporter bases from 2 clubs (in a city of 10 clubs)...but for a National game you draw on everyone...it's our National team!

MIB -You are having a great time on this blog are you not?. This latest effort takes the biscuit and I quote - " Dominates all of Australia other than OLD and NSW" unquote. You do realise you have just reduced more than half of this country's population to a minor figure in your "all of Australia" inference. These two "minor" states account for nearly 12 million Aussies compared to your "all of Australia" population of nearly 11 millions.As one of our favourite politicians (from one of the lesser states) used to say, "Please explain" !!!!! jb

MIB- " making excuses for the Socceroos?????". Your comprehension of the English language does not appear to match your writing skill. I was pointing out to AR the dangers in comparing 2 sets of figures based on the fact that one type of game (the local AFL match) was drawing on 2 sources ( Collingwood & St Kilda fans) for the numbers turning up to watch,whereas in a Socceroo game the vast majority of the crowd are going to be there to "support" the national side.It was not me who posted the original figures so how can you say it was me who was doing the comparison?. Now go back and read the first sentence in AR's contribution and you may see the folly in what you accuse me of doing ,it was him who was doing the comparison between Socceroo crowds and AFL crowds, not me. jb

meninblack. Again your making points to the wrong people here ,that Oman (powerhouse) game you post there I went to that match it was a Tuesday night if memory serves correct there were 25 k at Homebush,my eyes lit up like a christmas tree, remember i'm the type of bloke who use to go out to Parramatta Park and watch Australia play Fiji or Tonga on a Sunday afternoon in front of 2,300,what would the afl spin doctors do with a crowd increase on a Tuesday night mind you of roughly 20,000 ! Times they are a changin .

Yep a complete waste of taxpayers funds that isnt it, we dont need to play sports against other nations to truly connect with the rest of the world ,we just need to concentrate on the local game afl and never venture anywhere near that big bad world out there thats trying to destroy our national game afl . Also I dont see the element to aussie rules being that national, on the central coast I dont see kiddies or parents in parks or the streets ever kicking an aussie rules ball around ,they do with a rugby league ball and football (round) but aussie rules is not in the psyche of the people here never has and probably never will . Afl is a popular game theres no two ways about that but geographicaly get your bearings .

re the Olympics - like many others, it's a bit of a yawn until it actually starts - and then for a couple of weeks we get caught up in it - and then it's over and within 2 weeks after it's hard to remember what happened. BUt, I'm sure it was worth the money!!!

Titus - you're over thinking it.

Meninblack Thats correct to the best of my knowledge Aussie Rules is the only sport we contest as a nation that evolved here ,kinda makes the game strange then to me , you'll enjoy the Olympics I hope .

as above ICAR - this article is very specifically about HAL crowds. perhaps you have been too busy trying to argue with everyone to take notice of that??? but - if you must, the most recent match by the Socceroos in Melbourne was relegated to AAMI Park, not even Docklands, and drew a massive 24,414. Brilliant!! prior to that, v Oman at ANZ stadium for, wait for it, 24,372. Now - I do believe there was now concern about lack of capacity there that might've scared off potential attendees. Next up working backwards - v Malaysia in Canberra and 14,577 at a 25K capacity venue in the national capital. then v Thailand at Suncorp, where 24,540 half filled the venue. finally we break through the 'melamine ceiling' of 25,000 when we work back to hosting Serbia at Etihad for 28,149, and before that was v NZ in Adelaide back to June 2011 with 21,281. So......mighty impressive - 24,414 : 24,372 ; 14,577 ; 24,540 ; 28,149 ; 21,281. 6 matches played at 'home' over the last 12 months with 127,000ish attendees - - that's a mighty average of a tad over 21,000 although we can see that around 24,000 is the better form line. that's mighty impressive - so glad you raised the topic. Now, a 21,000 average compares to Brisbane Lions in 2011 - - a shocking year on the paddock and the first year with Gold Coast Suns potentially splitting their supporter base. Yup - excellent that - the Socceroos are a bigger draw - just - than the Brisbane Lions circa 2011. (don't look back beyond that when the Lions were more around the 30K mark). should we look at the Sydney Swans??? Last year, H&A home matches around 26K and this year 22K (not sure on the actual SCG capacity given the construction works). Soooo - Socceroos irrespective of friendly status vs WC qualifier on the last 12 months is on a par with something around the Brisbane Lions/Sydney Swans regular season home and away matches. There - you've proven your point quite clearly. ICAR - just remind me - what WAS your point???