I’m not going to argue with the facts. I’m not going to argue about doping. I’m not going to argue about the fairness of the USADA process.
Such conflicts have become so contrived and overworked that I cannot come to any logical conclusion over who is right or wrong.
I’m merely going to ask, after all of the information that has been released in the past 48 hours, whether anything has actually changed?
In fact, even classing this as right or wrong is unfair.
How do you define right or wrong in this case? From Lance’s perspective, USADA are in the wrong, seemingly having stacked the deck of cards that the US Cycling Federation, the UCI, hell, even the US courts were going to play with. From USADA’s perspective, given the testimony against Armstrong by his former teammates, he is in the wrong for systematic doping for over a decade and a half.
Lance has been fervent in pointing out that he hasn’t ever failed a drugs test, despite being the most tested athlete in the world. One can argue about the legitimacy of this until one is blue in the face, but I’m inclined to say this is true.
(I should point out that while Lance has never failed a test, this doesn’t mean he’s returned all negatives. Back in 1999, Lance returned a positive test for corticosteroids. However, the charges against him were dropped as he had a medical certificate to use a cortisone cream to treat saddle sores.)
There are thousands of people involved in doping control and testing processes throughout the world. It is impossible to pay them all to keep their mouth shut.
Of course, if you’re smart enough, you can probably figure out ways of cheating the tests, in the same way that there are techniques for fooling polygraph tests.
One thing I would like to point out is that USADA does not have the authority to strip him of his cycling titles. They are there merely to test athletes and investigate doping allegations. They hand any findings down to the US Cycling Federation who imposes any sanctions, if necessary.
So with that in mind, have the events of the past 24 hours actually changed anything? This is not the first time that Lance has said that he’s done with defending himself. He made a similar statement earlier this year in the face of the US Federal Investigation. He hasn’t actually had anything stripped from him, nor has he been banned.
All of his sponsors, Nike, Anheuser-Busch and American Century Investments, are all standing by him. His foundation, which has raised nearly half a billion dollars since the late-90′s, is still raising money for cancer.
In an era of cycling where so many were dirty, where the lines between champ and cheat were so blurred, Lance’s feat still stands on its own. Nearly all of those around him who challenged during his seven year reign have had some connection with doping: Ullrich, Basso, Zulle, Beloki, Mayo, Pantani, Kloden, Vinokourov.
I have no doubt that Lance doped. He had to to beat those guys listed above. To beat the tests, one simply needs to know the process and come up with a way to hide. But, most people had come to this conclusion long ago.
So, I ask, in the face of recent news, has this actually changed anything?
Vic Kohring
Guest
Does this mean Lance has to give back all of that money he took in under false pretenses?
sittingbison
Guest
its a veritable minefield of thoughts, opinions, misinformation and official releases hamleyn. The Australian even has an article by Peter Kogoy quoting Phill Bates, a member of the international cycling union's arbitration tribunal, describing USADA's actions against Armstrong as unenforceable and the organisation's chief executive Travis Tygart as an 'egomaniac publicity hunter'. "While Armstrong may have opted not to continue with his legal fight, USADA, a signatory to the WADA code, has no jurisdiction to punish or impose sanctions against any rider,". Then there were the letters from Fat Pat. The other problem is we read this stuff, maybe tweet it, talk to friends, write an article on the Roar etc, and then the next day someone further up the food chain says the complete opposite. Aaaaargh!! Then there is the concept of The Big Lie, say a doozy often enough and loud enough and it becomes the truth. And Mark Twains suggestion "It Is Easier To Fool People Than To Convince People That They Have Been Fooled." How is anybody meant to make sense of it all when this happens? I think that within a week, certainly a fortnight when the report is tabled to UCI and WADA, almost every issue that is being postulated and debated worldwide will be much clearer. In answer to your question, yes all those instances and positives are attributed to Armstrong and USPS, Discovery and Astana along with Bruyneel, Del Morral, Marti and Ferrari. They have all been widely reported on at the time. The problem is UCI has managed to officially sweep them under the carpet, and Lance has either sued or threatened to sue all those involved. The real story being revealed by all this is not Armstrong at all, as everybody made up their mind long ago that he doped or is a saint. It is the corruption of the UCI, who have hidden results, accepted bribes, coerced witnesses and sued journalists. Why Lance? He was the vehicle to extend the brand of cycling into an untapped market. Before Lance pro cycling was Eurocentric, post Lance it is worldwide. What has this case changed? Disregarding my heated comment above, what has changed is both UCI and Armstrong no longer have the power to keep it all under the lid. This sends a clear message to other dopers, we WILL get you eventually.
hamleyn
Roar Guru
Once question, were all of those positives attributed to Armstrong or were they just linked to Armstrong without ever being confirmed?
hamleyn
Roar Guru
Sounds like some of the people who run the UCI are working for Lance. Making things more confusing than they should be.
hamleyn
Roar Guru
Thanks for your consideration, sittingbison. Your ideas certainly have opened my eyes somewhat to taking in the truth. I think Paul Kimmage made a great point the other day that a lot of Armstrong fans feel really bad for themselves because they got suckered into believing the Armstrong lie. I must say that I'm struggling with what this will mean for the bigger picture for cycling. Sure, you can strip Lance of his titles all you want but who are they going to award them to? Basso, Zulle, Kloden, Ullrich? They're all proven drug cheats. And they can't possibly wipe 7 years worth of results from the world's biggest bike race, can they? I've accepted the fact that Lance has doped, its just that I'm struggling to wrap my head around how cycling is better off now that its out in the open? On your point about the positive tests, I guess that some of that information is hard to find in the public forum. I was aware of the '99 corticosteroid fail but not any of the others. I guess when you're a guy like Lance you can make these things go away. However, I find it difficult to see how he could buy everyone off, including WADA and the UCI. He doesn't have that much money does he? I was listening to Scott McGrory the other day and he was saying that USADA has no jurisdiction to strip titles. However, I have heard from numerous sources that WADA allows national agencies to strip and sanction. Perhaps if cycling's governing body was less convoluted and more transparent, we wouldn't have these misunderstandings. No worries, you haven't offended me. I like the fact that you're not afraid to play devil's advocate and shoot down some ideas that could be wrong. If you're armed with facts and information, you almost have a responsibility to inform people of the right facts, particularly regarding the ridiculous convoluted and complex laws surrounding doping.
sittingbison
Guest
be careful what you read. Livestrongs own blog says "The foundation has raised over $400 million in revenues since inception in 1997". But they also say things like "$135 million (55%) has been spent on specific Cancer programs and initiatives" which gives the casual observer what impression about where the money goes? Research? Cancer stuff?? Does this figure of $400 include money from Livestrong.com? hmmmm... Anyway, I don't want a fight. I really do appreciate your efforts, and feel shitty for having a dig at a Roarer for the article.
sittingbison
Guest
"Some of your statements" ...Nup, I have never contradicted myself. The problem is well meaning people people such as yourself unwittingly perpetuate The Big Lie - make sure its a doozy, repeat it often enough, and it becomes the truth. As Mark Twain said, "it is easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled". I completely understand what you are trying to say, and thank you for saying it. But I must debunk the myths whenever I see them propagated. Even if its just little items innocently dropped into otherwise sound and informative articles. A couple of instances, which usually would be completly unimportant but now take on a different aspect: Never failed a test - "One can argue about the legitimacy of this until one is blue in the face, but I’m inclined to say this is true". 1991-1996 T/E and HcG fail. 1999 coricosteroid fail. 2001 EPO fail. 2002 Activegin in waste fail 2004 dodged OOC test fail 2005 EPOx6 fail 2009 ShowerGate fail 2009 transfusion gear in waste fail 2010 CappucinoGate fail. Its a witch hunt - "One thing I would like to point out is that USADA does not have the authority to strip him of his cycling titles". The WADA code specifically gives authority to the national agency to sanction. UCI and WADA have the right to appeal the decision to CAS. Anyway, thanks for the article, its always great to see Roarers making the effort, I appreciate yours. Sorry if I have offended you.
hamleyn
Roar Guru
Have just checked the figures on the LAF. Apparently they have raised $500 million since they started up in 1997. Hmmmm...
hamleyn
Roar Guru
Jesus mate, tell us what you really think. "So what has changed? At the moment, almost nothing as the general public tries to sift through the PR lies and innuendo." So when you say you don't agree with anything I said, you completely contradicted yourself... Hmmmm
sittingbison
Guest
Thanks hamleyn for the article and your efforts I respectfully completely disagree with some of your statements though. The 1999 corticosteroid was a fail, he produced the TUE after the fail, which is contrary to the rules. Said TUE signed by del Moral lol. As we all know from O'Reilly, it was a fake. Then we have the 2001 EPO cover up, where Saugry (sic) has changed his story numerous times, before finally settling on yes it was a fail. Then we have the 2004 missed OOC at the ranch as described my Mike Ashton under oath. Let's not forget the 2005 retrospective EPO fails of six 1999 samples, which Ashenden openly discusses here (http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2009/michael-ashenden), then there is the 2009 ShowerGate incident where he was unsupervised for 20 minutes, then the 2010 CoffeeGate incident where the tester had a coffee with the team for an hour before testing. Oh, and the 500-600 tests he never failed was at most 236 generously including every podium back to 1991 (hahaha as if) and bio passport, which are not strictly "tests". Then we come to the authority of USADA. The USADA has complete authority under the WADA code signed by UCI to sanction him, like every other busted athlete has been sanctioned by national authority. They can and will within the five day limit (confirmed by Tygart) strip him of all results back to 1998, and issue a worldwide lifetime ban for Olympic sport. These findings are submitted to WADA and UCI, who can appeal the result to CAS. Which they will not do. ASO the owners of the Tour are a private organization, but will look stupid and lose credibility and public confidence and then corporate support if they ignore it. Finally we get to Livestrong. Who magically in the space of a single day went from gross $235m to $500m. Perhaps some confusion with the 500 tests? You said "raising money for cancer". What? What does that mean? Cancer RESEARCH? Well we know that's not true, they stopped doing that in 2005 ($20m total). Oh that's right, it's Cancer AWARENESS. Riiight. Whatever that means lol. But don't accidentally go to Livestrong.com accidentally to make your donation, or purchase a product, because we all know where that money goes. So what has changed? At the moment, almost nothing as the general public tries to sift through the PR lies and innuendo. Eventually they will get there. In the meantime, the greatest sporting fraud ever, and the most morally bankrupt, vile filthy cheating liar ever to deceive the hopes and dreams of millions of people dealing with cancer has been exposed. A great day. Compare that with Neil Armstrong and weep.
MV Dave
Guest
"I have no doubt Lance doped" ...in that one sentence you have said it all. LA continues to deny what pretty much all in the sport and doping agencies know, that he is a cheat. OK so everyone else cheated, doesn't make his cheating any more or less serious accept he continues to live a lie and has built his whole life around it. It is fraud, no more no less. Right now l would have a lot more respect for him if he came clean and gave a full account of his cheating. Very hard to do now but lets see whether he has the balls (ball in his case) to do it.