Is Ayrton Senna really the greatest of all?

*130mph that should read, apologies.

All evidence indicates that Senna died of a mechanical fault in his car (Italian judge's view after all the evidenced was submitted). As he was unable to steer it in towards the track, he had the presence of mind to reduce the speed from nearly 200mph to around 13mph (again suggesting that he was mentally very agile right up to the point of crashing). It is, therefore, in extremely poor taste to blame his death on his driving.

@Kristine - very eloquent. RIP Ayrton Senna. So much talent , humility and a genuine care for others. There is so much more to greatness than winning alone.

You say Senna was a bastard on the road? He was a racing car driver, and that is part of racing. There were no rules only allowing drivers to make one change in lane on a straight. Schumacher was as much of a 'bastard' on the track as he was. In my opinion, he is the best because most of times he would be in a worse car than his opponents and would still manage to win. 1994 season with the Williams dominating, he still managed to get pole position for the only three races he participated before his untimely death.

What makes "the greatest driver"??? Wins, pole positions etc?? I thinks there is more to it than just statistics.. as everyone has mentioned, you can't really compare "era's", nor the drivers against each other. The car's themselves play a major role. Who's to say Fangio etc would have been able to handle the horsepower, tracks, etc that 'modern' racing drivers' have to deal with? Who's to say Senna, Probst, Schumacher would have achieved all they did in less superior cars?? That's the thing, you cannot compare... The thing that makes me a Senna fan, and what puts him in my #1 position, is I think his love of the sport. Even when he wasn't racing, he was thinking about the other drivers, he was trying to IMPROVE conditions etc. Always trying to better the sport he loved so much. THAT, for me, is what made him so special. Look at his reaction in '92, when Eric Comas crashed at Spa.. he stopped his car, and went to help a fellow driver. How many other drivers would do that? Not many. He was compassionate for other people, yet ruthless at the same time. He wanted to improve conditions for fellow racers/competitors, yet thought it nothing to crash Probst out of a race. What a unique man he was. His wet weather skills are far superior than any other driver, including Schumacher, he was definitely in his element in the wet. So to keep this as short as I can, to sum up, Senna was a fantastic driver, but I think what keeps him in the heart of so many, was his love of his country, how he tried to help/change those less fortunate, the fact he died so young and under such tragic circumstances, but also because he definitely WAS the superior driver and competitor of his 'generation'. I always say to my kids... if there was NO SENNA, there would not be a SCHUMACHER. Senna paved the way in many area's, and was a definite talent in the sport. I find it quite ridiculous to compare Senna to anyone else... fact is ALL racing drivers are talented in their own way. It would take alot of guts and determination to get behind the wheel of such a powerful machine. Again, Senna is my #1 for many reasons, and at the end of the day, he died doing something he loved with all his heart. *My opinion only, no disrespect intended*

Michael had inferior competition in Jaques and Damon in better cars a Senna or anyone the like would had done way better in fw16 to fw19 (19 was a dream car btw). Sennas Lotuses were better than Toleman yet there were no Williams much less McLarens yet those in the know close to the sport; with inside understanding know Sennas Brilliance in those cars, that's for sure. MP4-4 of '88 was the only dominant car of Senna's F1 endeavour, Fangio had the Silver Arrows w196 that was space age relative to its time and Michael had F2001 to F2004 that were far about the rest particularly f2002 and the fastest f1 car there will ever be thanks to contemporary restrictions. F2004 records on track still stand even in Monaco despite the current slick tyres. Senna was pure talent a freak an intense spirit a source of unrivalled concentration. Yet his greatest and most important characteristic is his philanthropy. Thank God people like that are among us so we can take a page from his book. Obrigado.

For me, he definitely was the greatest driver of all time. It would have been so interesting to see what he would have been able to achieve! A great man, an amazing racing driver, a true legend!

I dunno mate when Brabham won with the Repco V8 BT24 they might have been a smart bet, but they were not one of the top teams like Lotus, Cooper or Ferrari.

Btw, I enjoyed your write up...and I love talking F1 with someone as knowledgeable about racing as you. =) Keep them up friend.

Also...with Ascari, you named him as one of your best. What I was trying to say is that he dominated 1952, but Ferrari had no opposition from any other big name constructors, Fangio was out the whole season with a broken neck...so he really had no competition that season. That would be like Red Bull Racing competing against GP2 teams with Vettel (in GP2 regulations)...and both Hamilton and Alonso were out the whole season with injuries, and McLaren and Ferrari didn't compete in the championship.

I agree with you there. But Schumacher did take a lot of key personnel from Benetton to Ferrari with him. So it wasn't like he just went over by himself to bring up a failing team on his own. He did have a great talent for bringing a team together...to bad it didn't work with Mercedes. And my point with Fangio, was that he spent most of his career in the best car. Senna spent probably three of his ten years in a top ride. Also with Fangio, I know his partnership only lasted a year with Moss. But look at the Italian GP in 1956. Peter Collins was on track to win his first title...but stopped and got out of his car to hand it to Fangio, who retired earlier in the race. Fangio went on to win his fourth title in a car that he took over from a championship rival/teammate. Senna never enjoyed that kind of support from a teammate...especially in the years when he had the best cars. Senna actually pulled over to let Berger win in 1991 after he clinched his title in Japan. Monaco 1956...Fangio shared his drive to 2nd place again with Collins after smashing up his own Ferrari. There is no doubt that Fangio was one of the best...Germany 1957 proves that. But he raced in an era where he was given so much support that it was almost impossible for him to not be a success. Also...I saw a comment on how Prost was faster than Senna. Fastest laps don't really mean much in my opinion. Senna started most races from the front...then created a gap, and after Monaco 88, he learned to settle toward the end of a race. Prost usually came from behind...taking care of his car for most of the race and then busting out his fast laps toward the end, when the car was lighter because of the reduced fuel load. I don't believe that fast laps are truly indicative of pure speed, because there are so many different approaches to racing. In Monaco Senna beat Prost to pole by 1.4 seconds in the same car! He outscored him in poles like 26 to 4. Race wins 15 to 11 (in the same car). I would think that if Prost was truly faster, those number would look a little different. But that's just my take on it.

Great to see so much F1 Conversation Mat! Something a lot of people overlook about Prost and Senna is that,were they in the same team today, Prost would have Ayrton's measure. For years, the pattern with the two was for Prost to be faster then Senna on an open track, but Senna to pull away when lapping slower traffic. He was just so ruthless! Whereas Prost, was much less so, didn't he get stuck behind Arnoux's Ligier for 10 laps once at Monaco?? These days, the marshalls would have the blue flags, forcing the backmarkers out of Prost's way and negating Ayrton's advantage. Still, his one lap pace was astonishing! And the guy was F1 in body and spirit, listen to some of those press conferences and compare them to the ones today! Incidentally, In the 25 years I have been watching the sport, I would have to put Fernando Alonso right up there as one of the best drivers I have ever seen. Enjoy Tomorrow Nights Decider Mate!

I like your take on this subject. At the same time, I would put this to you. Fangio enjoyed team orders...when racing with Moss in '55, he never had to race his teammate. Plus Fangio jumped from best car to best car. Also...two of his twenty four wins, were drives he shared with another driver. So yes his winning percentage is better...but couldn't that be because he didn't have as much of a challenge as Senna. Jackie Stewart was the CLEAR number one driver at Tyrell...Francois Cevert, was never a threat to him. Also Ascari dominated but that was when Ferrari had no opposition from another constructor during the '52 - '53 season. Correct me if I'm wrong...but I believe Ferrari had to compete against a field of Formula 2 cars because there weren't enough F1 teams to make up the grid. I know there is no definite way to judge the greatest is. But if you look at what Senna achieved throughout his career it would be hard to not place him at or near the top. When driving for Lotus, he racked up 15 poles in 32 races (85-86)...when McLaren had (Lauda/Prost) and Williams had (Mansell/Piquet/Rosberg) in better cars. He led the championship in a Lotus in 1987 for a couples of GP's mid-way through the season. Then moved to McLaren and had to fight an eventual 4 time champ to get his first title. Out-qualifying him 13 to 2. Prost may have scored more points, but the championship wasn't based on consistency that year, it was based on wins and top places...so why would Senna points race if that was the case? 89' Prost took him out...but Senna had 6 wins to Prost's 4, he lead almost twice the amount of laps, and had 13 poles to Prost's 2 again. '90 Senna got his revenge...'91 Senna took the title against the better (yet unreliable) Williams. 92' and 93' he had some of his best drives...such as passing Schumacher, Prost, and Hill (who combine for 12 titles), at Donnington on the first lap. The man was a genius inside the car...and had it not been for his death, he may have gone on to win 5 or 6 titles. The Williams he was sitting was the best car from 94 to 97. Senna was still at his peak when he died. I hate people who say what if...but it would be silly to think that he would've stopped producing. I think Senna truly earned his championships...where other champions may have had it a little easier due to team orders, or cherry picking for the best cars their whole career.

Great post. I actually think that drivers are intrinsically closer than the performances suggest. All world champions were in one of the top 3 teams of the era so it's already hard to tell if an Alonso is better than a Perez or a Fisichella. To compare Senna with Fangio or Vettel is just impossible IMO.

Mat, Great read. More please...

Thanks for the response Mat

Whether its just luck, the driver who gets out of his car and walks away at the end of a race has to be a better driver than the one who did not! All due respect to Ayton, May He Rest In Peace.