Dank claims Hird given drug: report [Update]

You need to provide the evidence for that, as I can't determine how coaches are subject to any code other than ILLICIT/ILLEGAL drugs. Hence Hird is not bound. Don't get me wrong, I'm not overly cool with players injecting substances. But don't muddy the waters like much of the media and confuse illegal substances, substances players can't take according to ASADA, and what coaches/general public are able to take.

And then there's Hird's text messages to Danks after the Carlton game: Dank: "All IV and injections completed. Hird: "Great work mate, it would be a great effort to have them feeling fresh for Anzac Day."

You can be prescribed EPO after kidney transplant, or you can be prescribed drugs if the doctor thinks it will help your obesity. What's your point?

Maybe I should have included James Hird's quote after the Carlton game when asked how they would come up for the Anzac day blockbuster? Hird said, "We obviously won't train properly, it's all about recovery; it's all about the high performance guys, we will leave the guys in their hands." The team was specifically "left in the hands" of Dean Robinson and Stephen Danks? A steriodal hulk and Dr Frankenstein if ever I saw. The Herald Sun on Feb 13 this year reported it. This is despite Hird saying after the Blues game "there would be five or six that probably won't get up for the Collingwood game in four days time". If I'm silly, then so are the investigators looking into it too...

these same drugs that Hird allegedly used can be found at anti-ageing clinics all over Australia, perhaps it was vanity is the reason he took it.

Although you bring up a few good points Your narrow look at a back to back game makes you look silly.Inconsistant performance is a weekly occurance, and not just for Essendon or the AFL for that matter They all must be on Drugs

Good post Abdu, Unfortunately the Essendon spin doctors have gone to ground on this one. They are usually good for a laugh.

The wider issue here is player welfare, forgetting the (alleged) attempts by Essendon to cheat by using banned Performance Enhancing Drugs. Why did the club officials, welfare officer, and individual player managers all allow this practice to go on? Where was their duty of care to their employee, colleague or client? There has been much conjecture about Lance Armstrong's cancer being triggered by his earlier HGH use. A doctor is duty bound to consider the 'whole of life' of a patient, for instance the effects of taking a drug long term. The 'sports scientist' (guy with a basic certificate from TAFE and can use Google) only wants to see what performance he can enhance. Things like getting players to recover from beating Carlton by 40 points on Saturday then lose by a point to Premier Collingwood 2 days later with only one player change. He uses players like guinea pigs. It's negligent and almost criminal anywhere else for an employer or manager to allow staff to be risked in this way.

You are incorrect. The AFL drug code covers team officials, which includes Hird. Why would he be injecting himself (as a retired player) with substances he now claims he never what they knew were? Please tell me no one else finds this very disturbing...? As with many problems in the AFL and our soceity, senior people are accountable. If you are well paid, placed in authority, carry great responsibility, and are looked up to, then you need to do the right thing. You need to be honest and accountable. Banks, politics, and football are full of spineless and morally weak types, and it is up to the few journalists (like Caroline Wilson) to hold them to account by providing public scrutiny. Hird has many many reasons why he needs to show decency and step down. He won't, because he isn't. A hollow man.

You lost me when you said "you can also take a bag of your own blood.." In fact I almost snorted laughing. Dangerous medical practices (malpractice) are in fact illegal and punishable by law, blood doping is banned, and you're playing semantics and very loosely with the truth. You're comparing Danks' dangerous and unqualified quackery (with Hird playing Igor to Danks' Dr Frankenstein) to a highly trained and qualified surgeon in a hospital. Laughable. As has been reported, Hird oversaw the (alleged) doping programme, let's wait for ASADA to confirm it so I've called it alleged. Hird oversaw players being made to sign forms authorising the injection of substances. Why would players need to sign waivers? Alarm bells? Hird and Danks bypassed the club doctor, who expressed concerns about this to senior officials and the board, but was ignored. Alarm bells? Hird oversaw Danks who used an external doctor to provide cover and legitimacy, although that external doctor provided minor advice in reviewing players' hormone levels and made comment, but he never administered anything. The doctor was a specialist in anti ageing, etc. Alarm bells? Hird and the club signed off on Danks' invoices time after time, for external nurses to inject players (alarm bells?), for all these quack faux medcial types, and Danks was only stopped and sacked because he racked up a big bill for using a decompression chamber. As a player, Hird (and Woewoedin) reportedly paid a dodgy nutritionist substantial money for "medical advice". He could have bought performance enhancing drugs for that much money, oh wait...? Hird is squirming like a worm with this. Our hate for the Bombers is for the way they are defecating on the sport of Aussie Rules, that's all.

Better than Pig's Arse. Elliot tried to administer that at Carlton in the 80s!

Pig's brain extract? EWWW.

In the case of Hird taking a substance on the banned list, I'm at a loss to explain why he needs to admit to anything regarding his own use. There's many substances on the list, most of them legal. If he was taking a substance that isn't illegal, what does he have to answer for? He isn't bound by the list as a coach, so he is free to take whatever he pleases as long as it isn't an illegal substance. There's many common banned substances on the list. For the sake of argument, what if he was taking asthma medication, components of which are on the ASADA list, but anyone in society is free to take (unless you are an elite athlete). This doesn't mean I feel this is a cool thing to do, and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. But I fail to see what he really has to defend.

A lot of people are failing to grasp the difference between banned substances, as listed by WADA, and illegal drugs, as listed by the law. There are many WADA listed substances which are legal. You and I can legally purchase them, inject them, eat them, smear them etc and not a single policeman will put us in handcuffs. Some you can even buy at the supermarket. You can also take a bag of your own blood, put it in a freezer and have it injected back into your body at a later date. Ask anyone who has had major surgery - doctors openly do this every day at the hospital! If you are an active participant in a sport which is signed up to the WADA code though you may experience some problems. James Hird is not an active participant. Even the learned people at Fairfax have (probably deliberately) ignored this point of difference. At least the hate is back for the Bombers - we must be good again! PS. I have no issue with large bans being issued if the Bombers are conclusively found to have used PEDs. -- Comment left via The Roar's iPhone app. Download it now [http://itunes.apple.com/au/app/the-roar/id327174726?mt=8].

Correction, if you want an education into how it...doesn't...all works look to the UCI and the world of profesisonal cycling. Hehe. You are suggesting an AFL journo read the WADA code, do some research? Come on. Why would Essendon make its players sign waivers? If you received one at work, would you just sign it? Didn't think so. Why wouldn't their managers query doing that? The Pandora's box here would blow a hole in the AFL, so they won't let it happen. Just like Lance sat down with Pat McQuaid of the UCI to work out all his deals (cover up the Tour de Suisse positive test, donating the testing machines, and quitting in 2005 to go off into the sunset), Essendon and Hird will do deals here with Demetriou. I reckon Hird will step down at the end of the season, get a slap on the wrist, an official will cop a ban (maybe the doctor will just fall on his sword), and the players who cheated will play in 2014. In the meantime Demetriou will talk tough but not actually do anything but count his $1m a year. On the journo's, remember the guy who reported the story of finding the Hawthorn players' tests in a dumpster? He was run out of the sport by the players, who pressured Channel 7 to dump him. Players, agents and even the AFL were involved. He left under threat of never getting work anywhere so kept silent in the media, works for a betting agency now, nothing came of the positive tests of those players either...

Why would an 'elite' AFL footballer be taking obesity drugs for?

Abdu, you took the words out of my mouth. The journos would not interrogate this issue for fear of biting the hand that feeds it. The papers are stuffed without the AFL and they know it. Best not to lose access, just like Armstrong denied access to Walsh and any one else who asked hard questions. IF the Essedon players have taken banned substances they will be banned (probably 6 months from September), even if they had no idea what they where taking. If ASADA don't follow through they will be challenged by WADA through CASA. Why don't the AFL jounos start talking about the WADA code and what it means. The public would start to realise there are no special deals, they are stuffed. As for Hird, he knew about all of this, all his denials are hollow. If he got jabs himself, what do you think. The public image is everything for this mob. If you want an education into how it all works look to the UCI and the world of pro cycling.

+ 1

PS. The Festina team were arrested and spent the night in the police cells. Can you imagine VicPol doing that here?

Nope, you are spot on I'd say @TomC. To add to it, Essendon authorised (or even drafted) disclaimer forms for the players to sign when they injected the players. Just like when he was at Manly, the alarm bells only rang when his invoices started piling up, only when Danks sent bigger and bigger invoices for nurses to inject players (?!) and costs at the off-site Clinic. Seems possible that he would still be injecting Hird and the players if he'd done so a bit cheaper... There are a whole bus load of negligent people here, ranging from coaches, administratrors and officials, the club doctor, player welfare to individual players' agents. That's assuming the concept that grown men can claim they didn't know what they werec taking. Try using that excuse in any other sport, or in the work place or the real world. Assuming, Essendon are found to have injected banned substances, they need to be banned and stripped of premiership points ongoing. If they are found to have injected banned substances, will the players blame the club for not telling them what they were injecting was banned (ignorance is not a defence), or will someone at that club have the guts and decency to admit they were wrong, they cheated, and they were stupid? Doubt it. It's funny that the AFL even talked recently about a Bio-Passport system. Laughable. That has been found to be inadequate at best, and requires years of testing data to set baselines. The AFL doesn't even test for the drugs Essendon has been taking, and its random testing and 3 strikes policies are a joke. What would they be expecting the Bio-passport to pick up if they don't test for EPO anyway? At the very least, the AFL could copy cycling's policy from a few years ago in banning the use of needles in the team environment. Just like cycling, the team staff who allowed illegal drug use t to happen, even directed it, and were often dirty cheats themselves when they competed, will stay in place running the teams. Stevo...?