Graham Henry issues public apology

Offhand... http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/super-rugby/queensland-reds-digby-ioane-fined-2000-for-twitter-criticism-of-super-rugby-referee-keith-brown/story-e6frf4qu-1226050057472 http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10641495

Refs have been poor, no consistency. What does Lydon bray and Kurtley Beale have in common? Neither admits there is a problem.

I can see a long winded cherrypicking tangential number of posts coming from the argumentative qlder to prove the original statement was 'fact' when it is clearly shown otherwise. That's if history on the Roar is anything to go by. Tin hats ready.

Pffft. NZ has very little pull. They kicked up a fuss about advertising at the 2003 WC and so the IRB gave it all to Australia without hesitation. Poor little QLDers, everyones against them in Australia and everyone in the world is against Australia. Whats happened to Ausies? They play the victim card more and more these days.

Hartley is uncooked dough, perhaps.

Probably, but I'm trying to say that I'm pretty sure GH had a good think about it all prior to sitting down at the press conference, unlike Hartley's heat of the moment. I think something else that should have some inference on the matter is that GH is a fairly sharp cookie...can't say the same thing for Hartley.

Premeditated is the wrong word, I think.

Just pointing out...There is also a fair bit of difference between heat of the moment and premeditation.

Yeah, the judiciary system in rugby is hopeless inconsistent across the board.

Jerry, of course you're right and I'm not sticking up for Hartley who seems to be a bit of a tool. And I don't want Ted getting say 6 weeks. But there are so many areas that rugby is not getting right that it is disheartening. There doesn't seem an adequate enough system in place to get improvements made quickly enough. That is, the players (in most cases) are now so much more professional than most officials in pretty near all areas of the sport. Anyone could produce a list of rugby issues as long as your arm that needs to be addressed. I just hope given all the expectations that the Lions series isn't ruined by match day officials. So it's just me having another gripe.

Well umm actually Mania Dave Waterstone the coach of Namibia at the 2003 RWC was fined for speaking out at the gerry mander of power the top tier nations had against the 2nd to bottom feeders of world rugby (and the influence this had on refereeing) John Kirwan was invited by the media to comment on his team Italy's fate at the hands of IRB referees and he declined stating "...I don't want to be fined 1000's of dollars by the board for doing so " I'm sure there are other instances i'll try and find them for you :-)

To be fair, there's a fair bit of difference between alleging incompetence and alleging cheating. Plus someone that actually abuses the ref on the pitch to their face is gonna get treated more seriously than someone who does it 2nd hand through the press.

So Ted, as they say, got slapped with a wet bus ticket and had to issue an apology; while Hartley got 11 weeks and lost a Lions tour. Rugby has a long way to go before anyone can say they are getting things right.

Yeah, you came across a study on that hugely impartial centre for rugby research known as Green and Gold Rugby, otherwise known the "All Blacks and Richie McCaw are a bunch of cheating poopy-heads Academy". I'm gonna draw that it's a meaningless stat because yellow cards (even ones for repeat offences) aren't actually determined by how many penalties have been conceded. I note that you never bothered to reply regarding All Black yellow cards on that other thread where you got shown to be talking out of your @rse, I would have though you might have learned to think before posting. Oh and let's have a bit of evidence about what Henry and Hansen said about Dickinson that was so offensive? Wouldn't want to think you were just making things up.

Good point. But in my Highladners v Bulls example, the question was whether the ball was past forward before the try - it clearly was by about at least a metre. I saw it and so did the 2 commentators, yet the TMO awarded the try - it is those decisions that frustrate people and give referees that otherwise do a reasonable job a bad name.

Agree it does let the game down, although the problem is with the rules and guidance given to TMO, as opposed to bias as some people might imply. In my opinion Henry is wrong on both counts of his criticism of the TMO, although that is not to say that there have not been plenty of wrong TMO decisions. However with the denied try, the TMO is not allowed to speculate whether he thinks a try has been scored, he only has the ability to factually confirm or deny somthing (a high burden of proof). Accordingly instructions and interpretations need to be sorted out, this will happen with time, and was necessary in league and cricket too, so lets accept it was never goping to be perfect right away.

During the Highlanders game with the Bulls a clear forward pass / lost forward balls was reviewed by the TMO was awarded a try. Even the commentators were dumbfounded. While the Highlanders got belted anyway, these things do have an adverse effect on matches. There is an issue with the refereeing and in particular in the TMO. Not only rugby either. I’ve seen shocking TMO decisions in league, cricket and AFL. There is no excuse in my view. Either the footage shows something or it doesn’t. If the TMO footage is unclear then you go with the original decision. In the Highlanders v Bulls example there was a painted line that showed the ball had moved forward. I could only conclude the TMO was blind or had money on the Bulls. It is a big issue and lets the game down.

You disagree with Ted's sentiments Kev?

matt - are trying to use stats to justify why your team are losers? or is this your reasoning for why the ABs win so often? show me one person who has been fined thousands of dollars for speaking out about a ref.