Losing my religion at the schoolboy rugby

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Interesting discussion. I was educated in NZ and had sons in the Australian system, including St Josephs. One of the problems for Australian rugby is that the top schoolboys don't play enough rugby, playing short seasons in seperate competitions. In NZ the Country District High Schools regukarly travel to Wellington, Auckland etc to take on the city schools, public and private, and quite a number of 1st XVs also play in local adult competitions, so they reach adult rugby more match hardened than heir Australian contempories. The bright open styles of schoolboy rugby is attractive to watch, but are easily countered at a higher level.

Wag - I lived with a Churchie old boy for a while who's favourite game of the year was Nudgee v Terrace. I asked him why and he reckons there was "nothing better than watching two teams of Catholics belting the sh*t out of each other"

Don’t get me wrong Tdog, as much as I think scholarships are great tools for providing promising young athletes (regardless of their socioeconomic background) the opportunity to develop their talents in an environment that will get the most out of them, I agree there has been some shady practices that run in the face of the ‘good spirit’ of scholarships. You raise some very valid points regarding the unhealthy culture and attitudes that in some cases are the driving force behind a schools scholarship program. I actually believe the source of this is the old boys who throw cash at the school and will send or have sent their boys to their old school. As I alluded to above, their generosity is dependent on the schools success on the rugby field so they can gloat to their doctor and lawyer mates who went to rival GPS schools. Personally I believe a lot of these shady practices have been cleaned up over the last 5 or so years, in the QLD GPS system at least. But there have been stories like kids being offered scholarships for just year 12 to take the spot of a kid who’s played from the 13A’s up to the 16A’s and kid’s getting to end of year 12 and being urged to repeat, not because of their academic outcomes but so they can help out next year’s first XV. Probably the worst I heard is one particular school establishing connections with a Pacific Island village and offering a certain number of their boy’s scholarships each year. On closer inspection, these ‘good will’ scholarships were being handed out after a week-long trial run by the heads of the rugby program. These sorts of practices tend to get a bit of media coverage in QLD so when there’s a bit of an uproar the Principals pull their heads back in. You also raise a good point about the money being thrown around that supposedly has rugby’s good intentions written all over it. If only this could be redirected to continuing the development of the game in non-heartland states and even the rung on the ladder above school boy footy which is in need of some attention. Unfortunately, those rugby fans with the bank accounts (of which there seem to be quite a few) prefer to invest in their ongoing ribbing of their rival school chums.

Hi Rob, Thanks for giving a fuller picture of things. People will have different attitudes to sports scholarships, i guess you could make similar type arguments about music scholarships and the like in those schools too. It all depends on what kind of a school, and the reputation that goes with that, that you want to support. I am totally for schools giving opportunities for kids to develop. The choice of parents to send their kids to private schools is often to give greater opportunities for that to happen - but I think sometimes it gets ridiculous, when you hear stories like "it was their centenary year so they made sure they won the premiership." So I think there's a balance between what's appropriate at schoolboy level and what is overstepping the mark. When it a school program looks semi-professional, i think it's gone too far. Maybe it's an effect of rugby as a whole going professional. I appreciated your insight into the donation situation and also how you've seen the rugby league recruiters going about their business. It really would be interesting if half the money poured into these GPS school rugby programs was poured into the "untapped regions" in school or club level and see what happened... (BTW I don't think that GPS rugby would die if the school programs were all stopped or scholarships ceased, the standard would drop initially by just a margin but the intense rivalries would still remain)

Old boys club. How about rugby for all?

You raise some interesting points Tdog. I went to the GPS school Brisbane State High where education is obviously covered by the state. However, due to the size of the school, there are strict enrolment policies regarding the local catchment area which in BSHS’s case covers a reasonably small zone in the inner south. Students living outside this area are enrolled if either of their parents went to the school or if they’re granted sporting or academic scholarship. I believe most if not all of the remaining GPS schools offer sporting scholarships and I know this does cause quite a stir in some quarters. Personally, I have no issue with it. The facilities at these schools rival those at most professional sporting teams and the coaches are at the top of their game. When I went through, Tony McGahan and John Muggleton we’re coaching at Churchie and TSS respectively. It’s also important to note that these schools produce a lot of talented swimmers, soccer players, rowers and track and field athletes. Schools are going to maintain these facilities and employee top level coaches regardless of whether they offer scholarships or not so I think it’s nice that these benefits are potentially available to all promising young athletes as opposed to just those with parents who can afford the 15 odd thousand dollars a year for their son’s private school education. Personally, I find it more savoury than the practice of Rugby League’s development pathway where clubs are going out and signing up hundreds of kids in their early teens to their ‘junior squads’. As a PE teacher on the Gold Coast I see the Titans signing up heaps of students to their junior Titans squad. Obviously, only a small number of these kids go on to have an NRL career and I don’t think it’s beneficial to the personal growth of these students who see the word ‘Titans’ and think they’ve made it, only to have the rug pulled out from underneath them. I’d rather an institution whose primary objective is the successful growth and development of young citizens also be charged with the responsibility of managing their athletic pursuits as opposed to an organisation whose primary objective is winning premierships. Professional clubs shouldn’t be allowed near kids until they’ve finished school. Regarding the cost of scholarships, I’ll tell you something interesting. A family member of mine was on the board of one of Brisbane’s prominent GPS schools. She mentioned to me that when the school was experiencing success on the rugby field, donations from old boys spiked dramatically. Kind of sick that old boys on bulk are only willing to part ways with their hard earned when their school’s rugby team is winning and it could explain why schools are willing to outlay the cost of some scholarships to have it reimbursed and then some when the donations come rolling in. However, how much and when donations come in isn’t exactly under the schools control.

What sickens me is not that there is passion within the schools, but that the integrity of schoolboy rugby, the principles of amateurism, fair play, and development from within the school are undermined by sports scholarships and the like leading to a semi-professional schoolboy competition. Is it really that important to win the GPS/CAS/whatever competition that a school should forgo its other responsibilities in education and also elevate a rugby or sports program above all else? Don't get me wrong, I'm not against boys training hard and playing hard, but there are always stories of education, particularly the idea of becoming a "rounded citizen", being hijacked in the mad pursuit of glory on the school sportsfield. The funny thing is... how good are these schoolboy heroes? Occasionally one or two make it to the top level. The rest of the school basks in that glory. And everyone else knows that they won or "produced a champion" because of their program or recruitment. And that then becomes the reputation of the school. So enjoy going to a local school game, but, unfortunately in most forms of sport these days, jut remember that it's probably not the pure game you thought it was, particularly if its an affluent school. As an aside, as other people have noted above, there's a breakdown in the system in cultivating whoever these 16 or 17 year old champions are. If you could see how much money is poured into these little schoolboy champions, it's a real shame that they don't seem to be dominating the top levels of the game.

SA and Irish schools play attacking Rugby too but when players get to adult rugby it's more physical and there is less space.

Why all this pre-occupation with Rugby in private schools? There's a vast untapped resource out there in the public school system and until the ARU gets serious about expanding its footprint, we're never going to be competitive with any level of NZ Rugby.

Wallabies are a product of poor systems after school boys.

Johnno the CAS comp in Sydneyis booming with the new home and away format. Whe I was playing at school in the 90s my CAS school wen down to the 5ths in the open age. Now it goes down to the 7ths. I notice that Tinit won the comp recently and also that the ISA comp has 2 divisions with more schools (such as St Augustines who formerly played league gaggng to be admitted). Grammar 1st XV play in the 3rds comp and have always been rubbish. They still have more rugby players than soccer players and a proud rugby heritage and recently formed old boys club.

Whaddya know, in the SMH today it was reported that he was in the 2nd XV. :lol:

Nice Aleks :) Abbott of course is a former Riverview student. I wonder what he was like at Rugby?

Am with you ciudad. I know very little about the Australian education system but as a strong defender of a free public education for all (I obviously believe in a secular state/education system ), I would much rather have my taxes be used at public schools only rather than religious private ones.

QLD GPS rugby and schools rugby seem to be thriving unlike Sydney, which is flagging unlike the glory days of the 80's and 90's when i was at school,. Sydney schools rugby hasn't advanced since when i was at school i don't think im out of touch. In the old days there used be article in the big papers sydney morning herald, not anymore, they don't have huge 1 page spread devoted to sydney schools rugby, it's all been toned down now.

Whole other argument Steve, one I'm not getting into on here; but it's interesting to note that federal funding accounts for 10% of Riverview's budget - I don't think their rugby program would be cancelled if that were cut away - and that per student Riverview gets $1000 more than Hunter's Hill High just across the Lane Cove River - kids who are lucky to have a bored teacher for a spectator/referee on a weekday afternoon in comparison with the atmosphere described above. Every kid deserves opportunity; I'm not convinced every kid needs federal funding when their parents can pay for the education a GPS school affords, and I'm definitely not convinced that more comparative federal funding is required for those schools.

The Australian tax payer helps to fund various co-coricular activities at my sons high school and daughters primary school, I'm not going to sit here and say that my kids are any more deserving than the kids at the catholic school or private school in my suburb.