Springbok team to have a Barbarian feel

agreed

I disagree - it is now a professional sport and they are plying their trade in order to generate an income and hopefully something that will assist them in life post rugby. it would not hurt australia to have a matt giteau in the mix - as great as lealifano is.... i believe that we should always field the best possible team in internationals and if they are playing overseas and they are the best then they must play.... this does not mean that the guys playing locally will not be noticed, arno botha to name 1 - in the next 2 seasons you will see a springbok squad develop into a team with depth and great talent and experience. the names that you have mentioned above have all just left after the latest s15 comp except for Francois Louw! please explain how you see this having a negative effect on sa rugby - most of the guys mentioned will be back to play in the s15 next year and potentially the world cup in 2015. i think that HM is not doing anything like PDV did and is not hanging on to people to carry through to the wc - who is hanging onto? everybody in that squad has got a good 5 years left in them (of the older players - the youngsters have a great deal more, possibly 2 more world cups). JDV should be around for the next world cup, but i believe that once the jan serfontein's and jj engelbrecht's are blooded properly we will have the best backline in the world with piet van zyl (second to fdp), johan goosen/handre pollard, serfontein/jdv, engelbrecht/de jongh, habana/mvovo/rhule, pietersen/basson, lambie/aplon/le roux - what a future for bok rugby and being consistent.... i believe that we have learnt from the past and you cannot just have a bunch of new caps without any experienced caps.... The boks were hitting their stride in 2011 world cup in that australia game and i believe NZ were very relieved when we were blown out of that game.... just my 2c worth

Has anybody seen the report that states Toulon want Habana back for the Grenoble clash on August 31? This is exactly the kind of headache Meyer would like to avoid. Would you want one of your best players to play in Argentina, then fly to Europe and play a tough game, and then fly half way around the world to Australia for a key test?

No all I'm doing is being realistic about the socio-economic climate of South Africa. The present way oversea's players are being implemented into the squad is not great because it is in an adhoc manner. If SARU was to hammer out a firm policy that saw a partnership between SARU and the overseas clubs (possible remuneration) or promoting springboks that want a change of scenery to play in the various Super Rugby teams from the other nations or sabbaticals so the players can set up sizeable retirement funds, I think we could implement an oversea's based players regime that could work. The key would be to have defined limits and it be used only for senior Boks that have earned their stripes. To have a dictatorial attitude of if you don't play in South Africa then you can't play for the Boks is being extremely short sighted in regards with the situation the player face (only a limited time to ply their trade, long periods of time away from families, ect.) and the issues generally within the South African political landscape. I think the above mentioned idea would allow for continuity within a squad to be built whilst still maintaining the services of your most experienced players

Deniller, Le Roux, Sadie, De Jager, Nyakane, Adriaanse, Pretorius, Francis, Benjimen,..

Cheers fredstone. To be honest I am at the point of giving up. SARU has given up on retaining players, they simply say there is nothing they can do about it. Rugby will ultimately be dominated by countries who can buy success. I think it is already heading in that direction. When I compete in any sport I expect each and every guy playing with or against me to do their best, I then also beleive sport should be fair. When money rules the quallity of an international team then there is no longer a need or want to follow it, it simply means I will be spending my time in the garden and in the workshop making some handmade furniture etc. Sadly for a traditionalist like me (selfish one at that) ;) it seems that is not far off.

Biltong I hear you and I feel your pain. As a cheetah supporter I'm sure you'll understand that this has been an issue for the last 60 odd years, but I've had to make peace with it, especially in the professional era. But at the same time I couldn't demand from players to stay if they could leave and get more somewhere else. At the core of the problem is SARU. Some type of draft or player cap and an increase in expenditure to unions who can't afford player salaries should have been implemented a long time ago to ensure a better spread of talent. At the moment SARU is only prepared to fork out for between 15 and 25 individuals as I understand. As it stands at the moment the Bulls and Sharks buy everything coming through the junior ranks and then as soon as they get noticed are offered an insane ammount of money to ply their trade overseas. A guy like CJ Stander comes to mind. The experienced guys are leaving to leagues like Japan and France because it's less strenuous and they're able to prolong their careers to a certain extent and I think that they've been loyal and answered our call, so give them their dues and if we can use them, pull them in even if it's only for the rugby champs. FDP rubs off on everybody for instance. But this is an international trend, the AB's have been identifying talent at under 12 level for the last 20 odd years and then ferried them off to the North island as economic refugees and the French and Aus, and for that matter every European Nation, have now joined the fray. The Crusaders are on an intermittent basis conducting clinics in SA for under 12 through to under 16 level and assesing whether there is a need to relocate certain parents due to their particular curcumstances. Jake White has set up scholarships for talented South African lads, and Wynand Strydom's son left these shores as did a few others without playing a single provincial game to go and ply their trade in France. I know of laaities of 18 in their matric year who were approached by french clubs and are playing in the French second league. Monnas, Waterkloof, Affies, Grey Bloem, Paarl Gim, Paul Roos, etc. scower the landscape to unearth talent and draw them from less affluent schools, and then they get everything for free and then some more. So where would you like to draw the line in the sand, because I've given up a long time ago. And as I've said, I support the Freestate, these things have pained me for a while, but what do you do, you can't change them. So my motto is support the Freesate, the Bulls, the Sharks and Lions, anybody that plays against Province, unless they're a Wallaby team or any NZ team that plays against the Wallabies or any SH team that plays against a NH team. I'll leave you with a quote from Oscar Wilde I read again on this forum a couple of days ago. "Selfhisness is not living as you choose, but expecting evryone else to live as you do".

And now Habana has been requested to go back to France by his club, Fourie du Prrez can only play certain games. Is this what you want, a Bok team that cannot rely on their Boks and must stand hat in Hand at the back door of these overseas clubs to beg for a break. Where is your continuity in selection and building a squad. If you condone that then I honestly give up.

JP Pietersen will be playing Super Rugby next season - same type of contract as Peter Grant and Ryan Kankowski. Once again more than half of those players you mention just finished playing super rugby and will be moving to their oversea's clubs at culmination of the Rugby Championship, therefore they are local players for the time being. As I understand the deal with SARU is that only three players based oversea's can be in the starting line up, so this will most likely curtail most of those players being selected. South Africa is a developing nation, with a high crime rate and fairly serious social/racial tensions - there is no way South Africa can really hope to keep it's top players for the entirety of their playing careers. SARU needs to get clever in how they go about contracting players, possible setting up sabbaticals like the one Dan Carter had or pushing those players that wish to play oversea's to have similar contracts like JP, Ryan Kankowski and Grant. Blooding new players is well and dandy but if they are getting hammered every weekend then they will have learnt nothing and we will be back to the dark days of Harry Viljeon and Rodolf Straulei

Well hang in there mate! :)

DR, I appreciate your comments as always. You will not believe the flack I am copping from South Africans about my attitude towards these issues.

Hi BB, Another good article thank you. Have enjoyed coming on to the roar and reading about rugby and opinions outside of my own little bubble within NZ rugby. The big difference between NZ and everyone else currently is that NZ Rugby is the priority beggining and ending with the All Blacks. It is the one focus. I dont see that from other countries. SA seem so distracted with peripheral issues. Relegation matches, overseas players etc i dont understand how they will focus on winning the RC. FDP is a prime example. Why have him if he is only available for half the tournament and the wrong half as well. If anything he is needed for the away games not the home games if the Boks are serious about winning the RC. I do not buy into this rubbish that SA does not have the depth or talent. Nonsense. SA have as much talent if not more than NZ. Its no use if you are not going to give them a run and let them develop. Why would they be motivated to work hard and achieve when players can swan in off the plane? As for this experience nonsense, what? If the NH sides were dominating Test rugby then i could understand that point of view. They are not. What good does it do anyone to have your up and coming and best talent plying their trade in Europe, away from the fan base and real competition? How do you breed pure competition for the Bok jersey when you cant accurately measure your players? What does it tell players when FDP can waltz back in after playing in Japan and only plays three games? How is it best for SA Rugby when the needs of the individual are put before the greater good being SA rugby and the Springboks. The Springboks are a great rugby team and i look forward to the tests every year but i dont understand how they expect to acheive and importantly maintain long term dominance with such policys. Mate if this was happening in NZ i would be pretty livid and distraugt. I guess thats a long winded way of saying i agree with you and i hope the powers that be listen to the likes of JDV and take action.

Then keep Habana and Fourie du Preez only. If you have to have an exception to the rule, then let the two of them be, but they must be the exception to the rule, not the rule itself.

"Boks key problems is they never seem to read the ref and adapt quickly" I have been lamenting that fact for a number of years now.

Agreed Felix, Habana is most likely one of the best wings in the world. There is currently no replacement for him. FDP is the best scrumhalf in SA for the past decade. Francois Louw is class. However. Goosen is the incumbent Flyhalf for the Boks, if he sorts out his injuries, he plays at the cheetahs with Sarel Pretorius and Piet van Zyl. The future of our halfback paring lies with them, and also with the Lambie and Reinach combination. The understanding of that combination will be powerful. BUT, right now we don't need both FDP and RP, we only need one, but then it must be done on a mentorship basis to the understudies of Reinach, Pretorius and Van Zyl. Although Frans Louw is good, I don't think he is irreplaceable. I believe Brussow can do as good a job as Louw. Just my opinion. Remember Heyneke Meyer under SARU has the mantra of if it is a 50/50 choice the home player gets selected. As I said in a previous comment, if we then MUST have overseas players, the limit should be three, if we can't put out a Bok team strong enough with a maximum of three overseas players, we shouldn't play rugby. but to be phased out that in 2016 we will have no overseas players.

Fredstone, firstly I don't condone poaching of any kind, I don't like it when the Bulls, Sharks, Stormer or whoever poach from other provinces. I don't like it when our players go overseas. However that is a reality which I cannot change and have to therefor accept it. Due to the jumping ship in SA, I no longer support any province, purely because of that reason, call it my petition to the system if you will. I now support individual players, perhaps the reason why I get dissatisfied with the system as a whole. for me rugby is supposed to be about us against them. Whether it is the local Freestaters against the local Capetonians, or the Local south Africans against the Local Englishmen, to me it makes no difference. For me it has always been about the pride we can muster against the pride you can muster. Unfortunately, no matter whether I am a traditionalist, there is nothing I can do about it, Rugby has gone professional, and with that the market place for rugby players have expanded. In my own little way I am trying to oppose the system by writing on Blogs like these to attempt to at least voice my opinion about where rugby is going. The last stand for me is the Springboks team, for me I have to identify with MY springbok team, once I can no longer identify with MY Springbok team, I will most likely lose all interest in rugby. Rugby is seen as entertainment, not tribal dominance as it once was. Most want to see rugby as an entertaining "product". Rugby is not entertainment to me, it is reality. For me it has always been about us and them, and to be honest, rugby is no longer about us and them, but about who has the most money. Countries if they wish, can now buy teams, and once South Africa gets involved in that practice I will walk away. If I want to be entertained I watch a movie, if I want to be gee'd up, get all emotional, bullish etc, I watch rugby.

My point some players in SA dont have the ability to replace a FDP or Habana,God didnt give them the same talent eg. R.Pienaar tries so hard but will never be remembered as a legeng like Du Preez,its God given talent,Why dont we see these amasing youngsters perform atleast in the S15 first before they can earn the right to be a bok,I never want to see a bok team with average players representing our country just because they are young,there needs to be talent to develop,Biltong who developed Habana nobody really,He & Du Preez have always shown they could make any team in the world from a really young age,I cant teach you to be talented thats insane.

One of the Boks key problems is they never seem to read the ref and adapt quickly. They appear to keep on playing to their own pattern no matter what. I like Jean de Villiers as a Captain but he needs to read the ref and communicate what they need to change to take advantage of the Refs rulings. Maybe that is a little unfair but I believe that is part of the problem. The ABs are the best at pushing the rules and quickly take advantage when a Ref lets transgressions go unpunished. The Wobblies are smart as well. In an ideal world this should not happen but in reality it always does. Boks - get smarter! And drop the players who never seem to learn. There was that Hooker from way back who they kept on picking when the whole rugby world knew he would give away numerous penalties and keep disrupting their play. He was a good player but not that good to carry the burden he brought with him.

Biltong you know for a fact that Louw is better than Brussow,Habana is the best winger in SA & many will say the world,FDP cant be compared to any 9 in SA,no young scrumhalf has a similar talent that can be developed to bieng world class,If you wish for victory for SA you wouldnt drop any of these players just so you can try develop unskilled & no talent second stringers,I say develop test player who show potential.Ask yourself this F.Louw has always shown he was capable of great things from the time he was at the Stormers,he made 1 final & 2 semi's if Im not mistaken,Who in your eyes could replace Bryan,Louw or FDP?

That was a very poor Argentinian performance. The Boks would not have dominated the breakdowns etc in such a manner against the ABs who would have been right up there in their face and forcing back. Different game altogether. I thought the Boks lacked the fluidity that comes from great confidence and skill. They should, in fact, have scored close to 100 points. Note how that performance by du Preez added an immense dimension to their play. Well against the ABs you are going to be playing against 15 players very close to that level - for a full 80 mins!!! Different game altogether. And they will sweat it against the Wobblies as well. But the Boks are not kidding themselves and that will mean they will play much better. There are the makings of a terrific team and HM impresses with his willingness to change and adapt from the old style rugby.