The future of Los Pumas at a crossroads

The first thing is to allow SR teams to take Arg players on contract as 'local' players, so that the best players are brought into SH rugby season. The top 30 pumas should be contracted to SR teams, then this will encourage the best players to SH. Eventually there could be 2 teams from Arg in SR.

jake white!

Hi Atlas, It has been a pleasure to comment on Argentine Rugby. Next time yu can take a look Buenos Aires Herald which is an English language newspaper or Frankie Deges, whom also is English language rugby reporter our end. All the best !!

thanks to you guys for taking the time to write about rugby in Argentina. During the RC I searched for 'local' Argentina game previews/reviews but couldn't find any English-language site that ran them, other than stories picked up from Associated Press etc that were written by overseas newsmen. Keep up the good work.

well the history tells us where we stand compared the long tradition of the top ones and bear in mind that when the rugby turned pro rugby (out of brown) we were still reluctant to change, and it is crazy that still in 2013 yu got a Landajo, Cubelli not being able to play in their respective clubs in Argentina because they are considered pro for receiving a salary from UAR !. there are still clubs not accepting sponsorship, nor adverts on their ground field...so considering our history we are not that bad. today is not a surprise that we beat Ireland, Wales, Scotland or even France, it is a matter of time, hard work, specially with the youth around the country, but as some pal said abv if Pumas wud hv won vs Books in Mendoza and Australia in Perth we might be talking on game issues. regards

fully agree !! it woud hv been another story, everybody knows that victories cud shut down or cover certain problems or defects. conside we can win 2 or 3 games out of 10, we are still far away. best regards

Hi Fernando! Totally agree! If we select the next HC wisely, we are going to beat some Big Guys! Cheers, Santiago

Hi Gustavo! What an impressive review! U must write an article about Los Pumas history! Cheers, Santiago

Hi Santiago, I'm writing from Cordoba I think for that LP's have a good future, much will have to see the new coach. To me Phelan´s cycle ended. A good example is Soccer, Argentina with Messi, Higuain, Aguero, Tevez and so on, under Basile or Maradona coaching, was never able to form a good team. Before the Intercontinental final Estudiantes-Barcelona, I always tought Alejandro Sabella is the man, and also Bilardo demanded to Grondona. Since Sabella is in charge, Argentina ranks No. 1 in the world, and already is the only one South América team qualified for the World Cup. Personally I understand that coach Jake White is best suited to the style of LP's, he has class, and already demonstrated in 2007 and The Brumbies. Are also to my liking the Irish Connor O'Shea and Robbie Deans of course. I do not know if Graham Henry wants to train LP's, he said a few days ago "I´m more focused on Fishing, and spend more time with his parents and grandchildren. Thinking about national coaches, I would bet again for Loffreda-Baetti-Cash. Regards

i dont think it is wrong to teach tackling, it is extremly important since they are very young must learn how to tackle. because then if yu got what yu are claiming now, but yu miss the tackle, yu will be talking of lack of.... it is a part of the game needed to become a complete player / team with all the skills and unfortunatelly we are far away, must remeber that most of these players are or have been trained before profesionalism, i mean in the special centers, now are apperaing the first players that went through a top class prepaartion.Must remeber that until mid or late 80s our youth players were playing 40 mins per period, until a French coach open up the eyes of the UAR, our youth accumulate so much minutes compared to other countries which was a huge overcharge for the players. we are not patient, and unfortunatelly it is matter of time and hard work, do yu think that Graham Henry would hv accept only for the money if he does not see any potential ??

sorry last para should read we hv to work very hard...

good point, remeber hearinf Pichot trying to explain to IRB about our inflation ratio !! players will continue to go to Europe, one or two franchises cud change it, but till then our players will continue going to play in Europe. i dont believe in a local pro torunament, that will not retain players, this because of what yu correclty mentioned, same for the UAR u$s 100 are equivalent today in Arg pesos $ 585.- but black market is $ 987.... there is not much to say. also must consider it wont change when we join with a franchise super rugby, thereafter will hv to get addapeted so also couiple of years will be necessary. there is a long way still, we hv good talent elements, we hv worked very hard when their are young. regards

consider,and we must take into account that even though we got our players playing in top clubs in Europe, we are trying to play the ball with the hands and this is very difficult when yu got players that are not prepared to do so. in WC 2007 our side was blamed of playing an awful game, kicking, mauling, even though as already mentioned in other posts, consider the WC as a different game, yu must be very clever to go game by game, where the most important thing is to reach the finals, any error and yu go home, so many aspects are to be taken into consideration, IE tri nations 2011 which is very close to the starting of WC showed Australia who reached climax there and champ become the AB, because it is very important to reach the peack in the right moment. in WC 2007 the winner was the AB and they were left behind by France in Wales !! peack moment has been the tri nations. also a very important thing to be considered is that we hv not much experience in this type of games/torunaments, our players become proffessional in a larger scale after WC 99, but before it was very difficult for us to compete, with just a few games being played on a year, we got players like Felipe Contepomi as max cup record with 87 cups when a player from other nation that have started in 98, like he did, wud be over 140 cups. the other day i was writting also in other forums that AB 1st tour at the beg of XX century took over 6 months bet travell and games through out 3 months !! and our first overseas tour was to southafrica in 65 !! tour where we started to be known as PUMAS because press was not able to pronounce YAGUARTE, which is a kind of JAGUAR nearly extint in our country and which is in our badge. our union has been found at the end of the 19th century, but we were far away and just started after the WWII that we started to host visits from Oxford Cambridge, and after 60 years of birth we hv the 1st win against Ireland when they lost to of the top clubs in those days and draw a game against the Pumas of those days. then started to host France a couple of time until the great danny Craven paid a visit to Buenos Aires and cosnidered that with a bit of assistance they cud prepare a team to be hosted by South Africa in 1965. the first series won by Pumas came after 70 years against Australiain 1979, in 1983 came our first overseas win, it was against Australia. in beween there has been test against nothern hemisphere, best result a draw against France in 77, first win against Framce came in 85 same year of a draw against the AB. so our history is very very recent. consider that is extremly important to work hard for future generation, because the genes are there for good players, but we must do coaching with youth and avoid in future generations the ball carrier with the ball under the arm like holding a newspaper which has no chance of passing or keeping the ball alive, if yu see most of the Argentine players, like Camacho, Fernandez Lobbe, Agulla, Leguizamon, etc has this problem and they most of time end up in the ground because they are not able to pass the ball in contact. these are skills that can be developed but when yu are young, when yu are in yr late 20s is extremly difficult. we are latins and as such we are difficult to manage, we can addapt very easily, reason why our players are looked by main clubs, same goes for football players, where is not the same with Brazilian players which looks like the best in football. consider that there are very few and may be the fingers of a hand cud be enough to nimante an Argentine coach who cud lead the Pumas, do belive that erro has already been made, we will end up without coach by end of this year and there will 2 years left for next WC, so main group of trainners should remain, just the HC should change and may be for this period someone from abroad will be fine, repeat for this 2 years period, as he will work with people that already know the players, but he will hv no relationship with old and new players, they all will be in same position to be in the XV team or not. taking about the U20,consider there is a good work, because they are as from U16 and are preparing the boys for when thy will desembarc in the U20, but problem i see is that coaches are changing like underware, we are talking of the U20 2013, but the coaches are different from 2012, and best performance was last year, even though there was more expected for this 2013. what i mean is that ther are good players, and this is a good generation that will desembarc shortly with the Pumas. of course will must keep working as clubs and special programs are the ones that will bring excellent players to the senior team, couple of years ago our Pumitas were small and there was a physical difference at least in the last 2 U20 Wc there was not been noticed such a difference. there is a long way still ahead, to hv a team or two in super rugby will be great and will be greater if the frnachises cud also hire aussies and kiwis and mix them with ours. all the best !!

It's a myth you need a local pro comp, to develop talent. Good amateur structures is fine. Example. The Uruguay soccer 1st division is not what it used to be, players don't get paid much, and they still produce strong talent. Fiji/Samoa/Tonga in rugby have no pro comp. Lithuania in basketball, doesn't have many big pro team that dominate euro basket. Cameroon/Ghana/Nigeria in soccer. It's can hurt but it's not needed to produce talent. Good junior pathways, and training is what's needed. The pro contracts in Europe.

Santiago, very good ponts. IMO the U 20 players doing so well means that the raw material is there but not having a profesional tournment cuts many players out of rugby because most of then have to start working and studying and have not so much time to train and play rugby at a competitive level. However I am no sure that having profesional rugby at home will work, just look what is happening with soccer where all the best players are in europe and they have to gather for each game with very little time to work toghether. The reality is that the soccer team has done very well when the Maradonas or Messis have made the difference, but never consolidated as a team. If Argentina plays without Messi the chances of winning against another soccer superpower are remote. With this in mind It comes to me that the solution to make argentina competiive is much larger than the point you made. What is the sense for the developing great players if they leave to play in other countries where they earn much more money than the potential profesional local tournement? The social, educación, and economic environment , as well así the geographical position of Argentina are the real problems. The efforts should me made to solve these issues and in the mean time the development of good players will have to continue knowing that the best will playing abroad, but the quantity of above average players will make a diiference.

fully agree, and if yu consider that the clock was in yr favour, even though we are speacking with monday newspaper, the right decision was to play for the 3 points moreover it is very difficult at test levels that a penalty scrum would be granted, Rosario was another example in that sence, OK in Rosario the same, but to spend more than 7 minutes and going back with empty hands has been bad mentaly wise and yr guy came out great of same.

fuly agree with yr comments, it was a great generation the one of 2007, but alsomust remeber that previously to the 2007 wc, a couple of top players were left behind because of injuries, then appeared Agulla, Borges etc. and warm up games were not good and were not showing what we were afterwards confronted with. the WC games are a completely different competition, like we say, "all planets must be alligned" and Argentina has not played a nice Rugby, they played an efficient rugby in the WC, if we remember well at that time, there were a lot of complaints on the type of rugby we played, a lot of kicks, mauls lowering intensitive of games, hg such a goo line as we hv in those days, was not nice playing mauls at midfields when ball cud hv been played fast to th backs... anyway in those days yu got good players in great positions, nr 2, 8, 9, 10 and 15. today such column is not doing well at all. best regads

hi, do feel and beliee that we will be able to see these young player next November window, may be Phelan will be a bit forced by the circunstances, not all the players will be released for more than one game, so deflty he will need to spread the team. it is being said that Pablo mattera was not being considered for the RC until Graham Henry arived BUE and asked for him... Santiago Phealn has been a great tackler, but to be honest, he as no real background as coach, just lead his Club, but not a province team or any other than his club. consider that Quesada as well as Ledesma are doing well abroad and might be in their future to become HC of the Pumas, wud say that Ledesma might hv some points ahead, even today he is assistance coach.

Excellent article, Santiago. I suspect Argentina will do well at RWC 2015. The brutal beatings in the RC (and the agonisingly close losses) will refine ARG. Your cubs will be grown up in 2015.

You are 100% out of 100 about the jersey. It was one of the best international jerseys until they decided to stuff it up