Vidmar didn't see Osieck dismissal coming

if you think Holger lost his job purely on the two 6-0 thrashings then you are severely deluded. What about the dangerous world cup qualifying campaign where we battled and struggled to overcome the likes of saudi arabia, jordan, oman, thailand, etc and the pathetic East Asia Cup, and so on. 0 shots on target against France and Brazil FFS

It wouldn't matter if you appointed Sir Alec Ferguson, Bielsa, Mourinho, Heynckes, Guardiola, Capello, the actual players and squad will not change much for this world cup and neither will the results. Osieck was scapegoated. Why? It was his role to "regenerate the squad in a world cup qualifying environment" say Gallop and Lowy. That's a farce. If he had done what a number of people in this forum have suggested in qualifying I can assure you we would not be at Brazil 2014. The problem is that the u-17 and u-20 world cup squads have produced very little for a very long time. What does that tell you about the experiment that has occurred after Hiddink was here last time? They appointed all these Dutch experts on the back of "Hiddink's success". Hiddink had the cream of the crop, who did he actually develop in that team, and what is his legacy? Yet here we have all the experts saying that our two 6-0 losses are Osieck's fault and to bring back Hiddink. What a ridiculous proposition and assertion. It's not Osieck's job to develop junior talent as much as people are asserting. Of course it is his job to give players opportunities and he has done that with the likes of Holland, Davidson, Langerak, Oar, Ruka, Leckie. If other talent exists they would have pushed their way into the team as Bresciano, Viduka, Kewell, Grella, Cahill did. Do you think these players were developed at the senior level? The senior level coach hardly has opportunities to work with the squad and give younger players game time and opportunities & "develop" and "coach" players skills or abilities in qualifying for World Cups, that is the role of u-17, u-20 and our junior development coaches and the coaches at club level. If there were players ready with ability to transition at senior level then they would be selected, there isn't. The people who scapegoated Holger Osieck have lied, and they got away with it because a majority of the Australian public do not understand the workings of what is going on. I suppose some people think Pele or Ronaldo or Beckenbauer "developed" playing for Brazil, Portugal, & Germany respectively. Yes they may have learned some things along the way whilst playing for country and playing against better opposition, but technical football, and skill levels are not going to be "learned" at that level, they should already be present. Furthermore our world cup qualification is not the same amount of games as for example the South American qualification is, so what are you expecting from the limited amounts of time the national coach of Australia has with these players to "coach" and "develop" them? You should learn off every coach you have & every game you play, be it at club level or international level, but it's not his job to do coaching clinics at this level, when you get to this level you should be good enough to play at the level and then incremental improvement should occur over time, that's why you get selected at national level in the 1st place. He can show players what they are doing wrong so that they can improve, but to suggest it's his role for player inadequacies is not fair or just. He gave a number of players opportunities to prove their "abilities", & sometimes some players are not good enough to be at the international level, nothing more nothing less and those inadequacies are only detected when given the opportunity as against France & Brazil. People should be thanking Holger for qualifying us and showing us where we really stand in the world, and for giving us a true test to examine exactly where we are at. In the bigger picture 2 friendly losses of 6-0 may be unacceptable but it has really shown us who was shown to be deficient on the park.

I question the usefulness in our preparation to face Brasil and France at this point.

+1 my left foot Not sure how anyone can overlook these points in trying to defend a poor coach. He was responsible for who was selected, and how they played

Ati is clearly insane :) Osieck picked these players and chose the (ahem) tactics. Buck stops there.

How much worse would be need to perform before you would allow the finger to be pointed at Osieck?? Alternately, do you think that a better coach would get superior results with the same players? If you don't we may as well do away with coaches as it means the quality of players decides results alone, thereby making the coaching position pointless??

What exactly has Carney done in the past 2 years to deserve to be selected for an International match?

De Silva :D going to be a gun in a couple of years. +1 for mentioning Connor pain. Another gun I forgot.

Yes you are quite correct, I am holding Osiek to account for the inadequacies of Neill. After all he is the coach and as much as it pains me to remind you and others, he is responsible for selection of the players. When Carney was selected for the LB position myself and others immediately tore our hair out in frustration. A player who not only has been in the wilderness for almost two at club level but hasn't or shouldn't have figure as much as he had at International level. You want a left back, Davidson and Zullo. Even now I am extremely worried about the 2018 and 2022 World Cup, players who should have been blooded already and would have formed the spine of our 2018 World Cup campaign have seen little or no action. This core group of players is important in forming the veteran experience needed at International level. Unfortunately for us this 2014 campaign is filled with just about every player at the 30+ mark and with players who are well past their best. Unfortunately the tournament like the East Asia Tournament was not utilised to the best of Holgers ability. Many people including myself were calling for fringe players to be used only for this tournament to blood as many players as possible. There is no value in bringing in any player who played a large part in the 2010 world cup campaign. We learn't that Rogic, Milligan, Duke and Juric are more than capable of holding their own. Most disappointing aspect was not seeing Sainsbury perform, which I have been told is because of his body language at training. The guy is a different personality, he is a relaxed player and this has been interpreted that he gave the impression he doesn't want to be there. Hmmmm really. What is a typical Australian. If your talking about someone who played football all their life, who has been in and around football. Who has parents from a European background and loved the game since I have been 6 years old. Who has supported both the NSL and the A-league and who has played with many players at junior level who have gone onto to become professional players then sure. I am your typical clueless Australian football fan. How do you know what the state of football is like in Vietnam is for example. You do realise that travelling to a place like Vietnam or in Sth East Asia is never an easy task. Again you assume that the world has stood still and hasn't tried to develop their football. What is your experience of what is happening with football at Vietnam. How can you disrespect the nation like that when we don't know what might have been behind the result. Can you tell me where is the analysis for that loss. The likes of Scott Chipperfield, Stan Lazaridies and Tim Cahill have all given their opinions and they are as equally valid as those opinions of Slater and Foster. They are just that opinions, I respect each and everyone. Every single one of those people care for the national team and want it to do well. The problem with Holger is his conservative nature and his inability to see what was before him. An Aging squad that would not be competitive at the World Cup in 2014 and would also affect our 2018 campaign. I think Holger wasn't brave enough especially when we were playing world cup matches at home. It took him how long to start Kruse, he still to this day didn't give Rogic any reasonable game time. These are our future World Cup players not only for this campaign but for 2018. You are correct in saying that players like Viduka, Cahill, Kewell, Grella and Bresciano don't exist but lets have a look at that a little closer. A lot of those players were starting to come through for the 1998 World Cup campaign and unfortunately we got done by two late goals against Iran. The same personnel were used for the 2002 World Cup campaign. Again by circumstances we ended up in a tough home and away leg to Uruguay. This golden generation by the time 2006 Word Cup campaign were HUNGRY, they were VETERANS by this stage and nothing was going to stop them. It took this Golden Generations 2 unsuccessful World Cup campaigns to be successful in the third one. There were so many mitigating factors in why we had this golden period of players, its because we had the balls to start playing Kewell when he was 17 yrs old in 1997. You want a good reason why this generation was so good in 2006, well their you have it, right before your eyes. I cant be ashamed for anything I have said. The sooner you open your eyes to the truth the better.

I must say Curtis and Amini are pretty exciting prospects, same as Behich, Pain,Troisi and that lad at Glory whose name I can't remember. The futures not that dismal.

@myleftfoot Totally agree with your players and potential line ups. In addition to the centreback position you could always put Jedinak in that spot who I believe is a better fit than as a defensive midfielder. Also we could have played Sainsbury who has been the best centreback at club level in the A league, much better than Neill is currently. Then you have other defensive options you haven't mentioned like Curtis Good or even Spiranovic who I am excited to see play in the league. Even the little I saw of Troisi suggests to me he is a player that will figure more in the national team.

Thanks Atti for taking the time to chat, I had fun. Love your passion, even if our opinions differ, have a good day. :)

My mistake in interpolating 'deserving - earning.' Langerak, Leckie, Ruka, Holland (add Rogic or any of the names above I suggested) have had bearly any time, they were only included becuase of external pressure.

Who said Carney earned his spot? Holger Osieck didn't, I didn't, he was throwing up possibilities because of the deficiencies in that area, I said he deserved a chance, meaning he was being examined. You have heard of trial and error and possibles and probables, yet here you are lambasting him. That is a joke. You do understand that this is exactly what Osieck was doing examining the possibilities. You say he was continuing playing the same players repeatedly, so what about Langerak, Leckie, Ruka, Holland, yes they have extensive playing time don't they?

You asked for a list of players who 'could' have played, I did not specify who or in what formation I would postulate could do better, or as well. But in all honesty, that would have only been part of the problem, as above I stated that the way they played was terrible. Oh and I do not think Carney (3 games in 12 months) earned his spot and yes I think Osiek was repeatedly selecting the same players, he had been doing so.

I think you have an agenda mate. You do realise the KNVB is not Dutch (coerver) and it will take time to see the fruits, especialy when some bitter nsl people are reluctant to take it up?

If you had played these players against Brazil and France 10 or 12-0 for sure. There was still 9 months to go what do you really think Osieck was doing, continuing repeatedly with the same players? Carney deserved a chance it was a test & he failed and wouldn't have been on the plane, the same for Neill more than likely.

+1 Too many players not getting game time, or playing out of position, not showing any kind of enthusiasm, no pressing, poor organisation and positional play in both bp and bpo. It wasn't working for close to 2 years, yet he kept the same players on reputation, with the wrong tactics for said players. An Iraq youth team shouldn't outplay us.

You are correct concerning losing 10 or 12-0, but what do you think was the purpose of the exercise of playing Brazil in Brazil and France in France? It was to gauge where we are at concerning 2014 and playing some top quality opposition. You are holding Holger to blame for the inadequacies of Neill and a few others. Name the player you would have played at left back in lieu of Carney being given a chance to see where he was at and failed. Holger didn't go out there, lose the ball, be too slow, get beaten technically in defense, get beaten on the near post for pace by Benzema. Please tell me who you would have included in the cut throat business of qualifying for Brazil 2014, are you suggesting Holger should not have been cautious and just blooded youngsters in qualifying? Absolute nonsense. If you really want to be serious we are fortunate to have qualified with the players he had at his disposal, if you do not realise this nor understand this then I'm afraid you should be prepared for Australia not qualifying for another World Cup for the next 2 times i.e. 2018 and 2022 as that is what's going to happen let me assure you. You say "Sth Korea lost at home", we didn't play at home we played in Brazil, so what do you think would have happened to Sth Korea playing Brazil in Brazil, are you still suggesting 2-0? Please put things in perspective and compare likes with likes that are valid. Here you are talking about development, he played us against France and Brazil to decide exactly that, but now will not get the chance in the next step of that and that is something you do not seem to understand. Getting us to Brazil was the 1st step which he accomplished, and he did it with an ageing squad, not what the likes of Hiddink had at his disposal so please have some perspective if you are going to criticise. You say 'It took people with no knowledge of football to finally show the people who are supposed to have knowledge how to run the game in this country".You are being serious are you? If you are I am laughing at this comment for it is utter rubbish. I really hate it when people come along and say football has to "progress" and we have to play some "new style". Well look at the experiments of Berger , Baan, Versleijen, how has that gone with their "new style progressive systems"? Do you really think people like Boultbee, Buckley and Gallop have a clue about the intricacies of football? You have people running the game that haven't a clue. Look no further than our juniors and that is the reason that Holger didn't have talent to draw on, and who is responsible for that, Holger Osieck? There has been no pressure on people like Neill has there, and we saw that Holger inserted Langerak and look at the game he had, some excellent work in goal. I can't see how you can blame Holger Osieck for apathy & attitude on the field, once they're on the field it's people like Lucas Neill that are responsible for doing the talking and organising defence, he's the captain and also played central defense, he did nothing, and whilst he's been a good servant he does not deserve a ticket to Brazil. Seriously your comments show the typical Australian no clue about football. If you hold Holger Osieck to account for two friendly 6-0 losses then who are you holding to account for the disgusting state of our juniors with losses of 5-1 against Vietnam as an example. If Holger Osieck had decent players exerting pressure in all positions & a decent player pool then possibly we would not have been beaten by 6 on both occasions by 2 of the very highest quality teams in the world, but the talent does not exist and Holger Osieck is not to blame for that he can only use what players he has at his disposal. Last but not least, name the players you would have used in both these 2 friendly games which Holger was using as a guide to who is, and who isn't capable of being in Brazil in 2014, and also name the players you would have used in the squad and dropped since the commencement of Holger's tenure in 2010. I think you do not understand the thinking or planning or perception of Holger Osieck, and you only have to go and look at the opinions of Stan Lazaridis, Scott Chipperfield and Tim Cahill, I will accept their opinions in front of the likes of Slater, Foster and any other experts. You may say Holger's world cup experience was in 1990 and he's yesterdays man, do you say the same of Heynckes, Trapattoni, Capello? They are all of the same vintage, do you think they "changed" their methods to something "new & progressive"? They used what worked & that type of logic you're espousing is rubbish and guys like Heynckes has proved it, he wasn't taught all this modern "progressive new" football, he knows what worked and used it iwth Bayern Munich and throughout his coaching career. You can change the coach but you can't change the personnel to any significant degree because the days of players like Viduka, Cahill, Kewell, Grella & Bresciano, do not exist, so you have to ask yourslef what happened with our juniors and why hasn't the same scrutiny been applied in that area. Postecoglou failed with our junior teams, and can you see the likes of Foster or Slater or any other "football expert" applying the same level of scrutiny to "their mates"? What has been said of Paul Okon? The FFA and the people responsible for this sacking haven't got a clue or what the bigger picture is. You should be ashamed of what you have said here, and please, learn the difference between qualifying for a World Cup, and playing friendly matches.

Helo Atti. Well for starters. GK- Ryan, playing every match for Brugge, getting rave reviews from his coach. RB- our most troublesome position???? Wilkshire, Herd, Williams... CB- Williams, Lowery. LB- Zullo, Davidson, a class above anyone that has played LB for probly 2 years, maybe more. DM- we are ok here, Holland (ucl), Jedi, Sarota and Milligan has showen he can do a job. No Bresch. CM/CAM- Bresch should play here, Leckie Rogic (though he was injured) and Kruse can play here as well as Cahill. WINGS/Inside forwards- Kruse, Oar, Leckie, Ruka. CF- Leckie (is in amazing form right now), Jesus. Cahill should not play here. That's got younge tallent playing in pretty good leagues, or at least a lot better than oil leagues. They are getting plenty of game time, compare that to Neil (who if partnered right and with the right tactics, would be ok imho) or worse Carney, 3 games in 12 months in MLS and not many in the previous year.