St Kilda is finding it difficult to contain a balance of youth players that they have on their list with older club champion players.
The problem for the people involved with the club is being able to satisfy their older players in the twilight of their careers, but to also get games into their young players.
Especially considering the likelihood that the older players that will stay with the Saints will not have another go at winning a premiership.
This list development problem arose during the Lyon era, where poor team management and future planning took place for short term success.
The Saints between 2007-10 recruited poorly and played an almost “moneyball” scheme to win a premiership, rather then develop young players like Geelong.
St Kilda involved themselves in trading away early draft picks for older middle age players, which sounded like a good idea to plug holes in the list at the time, but the Saints are paying dearly for it now.
Getting serviceable players like Farren Ray to the club was handy, but they are not players that are going to break a game apart.
After not winning a premiership, it seems like this scheme has left Saints fans with more heartbreak, especially following Lyon’s departure as he knew the Saints were going to go downhill.
Not all is lost. The Saints are starting an ambitious plan to stockpile youth in the next few years, to fast-track its attempt at another flag within the near future.
While this is painful for some and it has already involved the loss of a club favourite in Ben McEvoy, these are the tough decisions that the Saints need to make if they are to climb back up the ladder.
The important part of this process is respectfully looking after your veterans – players like Nick Dal Santo, Leigh Montagna and Nick Riewoldt – as they need to be around to look after the next generation of players coming through.
You don’t want to have a diabolical situation like Melbourne where all their leaders left the club around the same time, leaving the young players with no one to guide them.
What will be hard for the Saints is keeping players like Dal Santo, who will want another tilt at the premiership. Using Brian Lake as a classic example, his career was stalling at the Dogs before he was traded to the Hawks.
He ended up winning a premiership and then going on to win the Norm Smith for best on ground. His departure wasn’t a popular decision among Dogs’ fans, but it allowed them to play more youth in their side and blood a young defender.
As for Saints coach Scott Watters, the Saints don’t want to continue their history of sacking coaches. Watters is more then capable of taking the Saints into the next era.
His approach to discipline is something that the Saints need following a run of off-field controversies which resulted in both Andrew Lovett and Jason Gram being sacked by the club.
This trade period will be an integral part of the future ambitions of the St Kilda Football Club and no doubt there will be some difficult decisions made by the footballing department.
These decisions will be tough and I don’t envy them one bit.
Brent Ford
Roar Guru
To elaborate the Saints need to develop players that are going to have a star quality, it's like 2000/01 where the Saints got the likes of Riewoldt. Then developed him into a great player, they need to develop players for the future that will lead the club to it's next tilt at a flag. Hence 'Future Development' being a key prospect for the club.
Brent Ford
Roar Guru
Yeah obviously if Lyon did get us a flag we wouldn't be having this discussion. But he didn't so his role of the dice tactics are really not acceptable and then to get up and leave the club really hurt us. Saints are obviously going back to the future in search of talent in stockpiling young talent and getting the older blokes to look after them and teach them the right way. To be honest I think the club will get as many games into the young blokes as possible next year, I can see us getting the spoon but that is not to say that we won't be competitive. I don't think the club wants us to miss out on a top 5 pick next year, especially as we won't win the premiership next year. With guys like McCartin and Goddard coming through I wouldn't be all that disappointed if it led to future success. But as supporters we need to stick by the club.
Brent Ford
Roar Guru
Thanks mate! We dominated trade week, there is a chance too that GWS will overlook Boyd. While that may not happen I'm Hopi we can pick up Scharenberg or a Jack Billings. At least we have gotten the key defenders we have been after.
Brent Ford
Roar Guru
Yeah there is such thing Mr. Calhoun.
Dan
Guest
Yeah , look it's no doubt Lyon left stkilda in ruins .... But had he won us a flag maybe we would think differently ... I'm not defending him , but just maybe it would if changed things. As much as I love he saints , the management side if things has been a real mess over the past. Let's hope they look back and learn from this and move forward in the right way! I was shocked with the big boy trade ... I really thought he should of been apart of the saints 2014. Anyway people are saying the saints will struggle and be spooners in 2014 . Come on what rot , regardless of rebuilding , saints still have some great players with great experience , and I feel they will be far more competitive than what everyone's saying . Looking back at 2013 season , we only won 5 games but lost 10 by only a kick or 3 ! It's not like saints were bein belted week in week out like poor old Melbourne were. Anyway I think 2 years and saints will be back stirring up the finals again ! And as for watters , I think he is the man to lead stkilda in this rebuilding stage ! If thy sack him then I think he board needs to be sacked too !
Cursing Fijian
Guest
Great article Mr Ford. Player development is the key for the Saints, and future success will depend on how quickly Watters, Micale and Laidley can bring the next bunch up to elite AFL standard. They have certainly improved on the last coaches output in this area. Hopefully the space created by Dal Santo will allow players like Dunnell to come on. The Saints certainly look like they are building with some mostly effective recruiting in the last two years. They must hold on to their top 20 picks this year. The Lee/Hickey trades last year have still yet to bear fruit and could have been used in the draft to bring players of the calibre of Brodie Grundy and Jackson Thurlow. Savage, Delaney and (hopefully) Longer look set to be neat additions to the player list. As a Saints fan, I am genuinely excited about the future, albeit uncertain.
Floyd Calhoun
Guest
Don't want to sound pedantic. But 'future development'?
Chris
Guest
I'm a St.Kilda supporter, but 34 goals in four grand finals? You might need a new coach, Dockers.
Balthazar
Guest
Freo has said publicly it was already in discussions with Dawson before it approached Lyon. I don't know enough about St Kilda to comment on its relationship with Lyon but at Freo list decisions remain with Chris Bond. It will be Bond's fault - and not Lyon's - if we don't get the KPF playes we need to replace Pav and McPharlap.
macca
Guest
And how did the likes of Brett Peake and Nathan Lovett get them closer to a flag - try to top up for sure but don't throw away draft picks on duds.
IanW
Guest
If you're St Kilda, you try for a flag and damn the concequences. Personally, I think their mistake was not trading Goddard to GWS for mega compensation ... and now its a couple of years on and they dont have the trade currency to rebuild. If the Pick 2 deal is on, if I was St Kilda I'd be on the phone to GWS asking if they'd do it for pick 3.
macca
Guest
Chuck - Freo had alradey gone hard in the draft before Lyon came along and had put together the bones of that side - who has Lyon brought in Dawson? Lyon saw a side on the up and went for it.
NeeDeep
Roar Pro
I saw a post on this site, a fair while back and when I read it, I thought to myself, this is really pure gold. It was a real nugget of insight, beyond comparison and with no disrespect to people who post on this site, I was a little surprised I found it on here. But it was on this site and I think it suitably addresses your comment, Chuck "The mark of a truly great coach, is the one that can leave a (club) list, in better shape than he found it"! Sorry, but Ross gets a massive (possibly even epic) fail in that regard!
Brendan
Guest
if he doesn't snag a flag at Freo Lyon might finish up as the only coach to lose G/F at two clubs without winning one.
Chuck Norris
Roar Rookie
You thinks so? I'd say the Hawks had a better list and they proved it in the final. Seriously though I think the Dockers were going nowhere and Ross restructured them and they played his style very well. Yes they have talent, but I can think of many other teams that have more talent than them, but they are no where as well drilled as the dockers. Being well drilled comes from a very good coach and I think most in the industry believe if Ross Lyon isn't the best coach then he is certainly in the top 3.
macca
Guest
And left a terrible one,
Brent Ford
Roar Guru
Well said, Lyon inherited possibly the best list in the league and he still couldn't win a premiership.
Brent Ford
Roar Guru
Exactly and he needs to be the bloke in charge.
NeeDeep
Roar Pro
I would be disgusted with the club, if they ended up sacking Scott Watters during the 2014 season. They will have wrecked his coaching career and then have knifed him in the back for being the guy who tried to tough it out for the clubs sake! Unlike another recent coach, who got going, when the going looked like it was going to get a little tough – as a result of some of that coaches bizarre drafting choices – Watters seems to feel indebted to the club for giving him his first shot at being a senior coach. That is the kind of “LOYALTY” the Saints really need, from a quality man who is good to his word. If the club now took over the “drafting decision making process” as appears to be the case with Chris Pelchen making most of the calls on trading and then signalling that there are tough times ahead, we shouldn’t expect much from the coaching staff, other than a couple of development years. I would then find it almost hypocritical that the club would let Ross Lyon make all those decisions and run the show and look at him as some sort of “Super Coach”, who achieved great things at St. Kilda, to then basically strip the current coach of almost any decision making role and ultimately sack him, as a result of a couple of years of hard slog! Honestly, that would be the final straw for me!!!
macca
Guest
Ross Lyon smashed the list and walked away and people are blaming Watters? At least the Sainst are being proactive and trying to get a lot of top shelf talent in the first untainted draft in a while - they may not play finals this year but they are building towards something.