The next perspective on analysing the decision leads us into analysing the part the FFA has played and whether the decision to take Ange our of the A-League.
More specifically the fallout that shall occur as a result of the manner in which it has been done – will be to the detriment of the sport more broadly than just the fortunes of the national team.
Read Has Ange Postecoglou been set up to fail? (Part 1)
Firstly, questions needs to be asked about the process, as Graham Arnold has already.
Why was there was such a rush to replace Holgier Osieck following his axing after successive 6-0 losses so that the new coach was in place for the mid-November friendly (now confirmed to be Costa Rica) when there are no other games until March?
The FFA had plenty of time to search for a suitably qualified and high calibre candidate from the foreign pool of candidates.
This would have taken some time given there was some lukewarm interest the risk the current playing squad posed to their reputations, despite the free gift of a World Cup coaching appearance on offer.
Secondly, given the impetus of football’s growth in Australia is increasingly lying with the A-League, the wisdom of taking out one of the top coaches that makes this competition as engaging as it is needs to be questioned.
This holds true whether this be Ange Postecoglou, Graham Arnold or Tony Popovich which is why I argued in another article they are best left where they are.
Postecolgou’s appointment has subsequently left something of a vacuum, and regardless of what De Bohun may say, Ange Postecolgou has left shoes that will not easily be filled.
The populist feel-good vibe surrounding the appointment does nothing to actually paper over the cracks on the football side of the equation?
For example, people are tiring of Lucas Neill et al, but not many people seem to be able to answer just who is actually meant to take his spot and improve the performance of the team?
In the event of a predictably underwhelming showing at next year’s World Cup in Brazil, the A-League would be more important than ever in acting as a counter-force and keeping the naysayers quiet.
In taking Postecoglou out of the A-League and undermining that competition in the process however (certainly in terms of the resurgence of interest that occurred in Victoria throughout the 2012/2013 season), the FFA have run the risk of a situation where the esteem in which the the A-League is held declines in conjunction with that of the ‘Socceroos’ brand – meaning a double whammy for football in this country.
Then there is Melbourne Victory and the matter of compensation.
It has been rather incredulous to see talk that Victory are obliged to ‘give up’ their coach ‘for the good of the nation’.
What is most disturbing is that the board themselves have been naive enough to allow themselves to be pressured by such a sentiment.
In the football world the relationship between clubs and national associations isn’t so much as a benevolent hierarchy, but rather the reality is that they are rival organisations who very often squabble over the allocation of resources.
Club versus country rows over ‘playing resources’ are the most common and readily understood examples of this dynamic.
And it is no different in terms of the FFA and the A-League clubs, the idea that Melbourne Victory were somehow obliged to do their ‘national duty’ when ‘the nation came calling’ merely covers up the fact that this has once again been an unsavoury treatment by the FFA of the games stakeholders.
This episode even eclipses the famous poaching of Gary Van Egmond from the Newcastle Jets during the Constantine era.
In terms of the A-League’s benchmark club, the loss of Postecoglou could not come at a worse time as the loss of Postecoglou in conjunction with a protracted stand-off between active fans and club administration (and the consistently sub-par atmosphere that comes with this) is a double whammy that can see the wind taken out of the sails of the club quite considerably.
On to the larger issue, in the event of a Socceroos decline, the emphasis for football’s progress will rely on the domestic game through the A-League and the incoming FFA Cup more than any time previously.
A spirit of goodwill will by extension be more important than ever, but a lingering spirit of ill-will shall by extension serve to stultify the games progress of the domestic front.
While the establishment of the A-League joint commission has kept the clubs versus FFA tensions that erupted via Clive Palmer and Nathan Tinkler below the surface, there are still nevertheless issues bubbling below the surface such as the length of licenses for example as raised by new Mariners owner Mike Charlesworth during the off-season.
However as I have discussed in an article recently published on The Roar, the power is slowly shifting from the Socceroos towards the A-League.
This will only become stronger with successive TV rights deals. When the tipping point is reached where the ‘rainmaker’ tag has undoubtedly transferred to the A-League, there will inevitably be an almighty power struggle between the A-League clubs via the newly formed ‘A-League Owners Group’ and the FFA.
It will dwarf anything seen thus far.
This will be a similar dynamic to the pressures that led to the formation of the Premier League in England, and will see centre around Crawford Report and AFC recommendations for a fully independent relationship between the national professional competition and the national association.
Lastly, there is the issue of Postecoglou himself. He has done an excellent job in building a profile in the mainstream media – his appearance in Offsiders being a case in point.
He is in effect one of the first personalities from the football fraternity to do and his pseudo celebrity status as a ‘Super A-League coach’ is a good ambassadorial role for the game.
This will be higher than ever at this moment of time given his new appointment as Socceroos coach.
However Postecoglou has also prospectively just made himself the face of Socceroos decline.
While he will always be able to garner an A-League job, there is a possibility that being so publicly outwitted against world class coaches on the elite stage will have a shattering effect on the aura he has built around himself since his exploits with Brisbane Roar in particular and his reputation will go the same way as Graham Arnold’s did in 2007.
This will be a setback not only for Postecoglou personally, but also the game of football who will have lost the person best able to elicit mainstream cut-through for the game in Australia.
mahonjt
Guest
Nail - Head
The Bear
Guest
Well for me the bottom line is FFA aren't perfect. Now it depends on your vested interests to precisely determine if they are more good than bad, or effective. It's all we got and we have to suck it up...coming from a Roar fan I know some of your pain. Let's revisit this topic when Socceroos complete their group stage in Brazil, sense the broader Aussie community's mood about Football, and then gauge whether or not we're happy with FFA's serial "interferences". I appreciate the discourse and actually wish Victory well and that they (all) bounce back from this. Cheers!
The Bear
Guest
That's a fair bunch of respectable reflection. The process was probably a bit harried...but if it was left til Feb/March the WC would have definitely been definitely been a joke tournament. HO trajectory was same old same old (pun intended) and the HUN would have definitely hooked into us 2 cups in a row. Now at least the parochial angle (incl HAL fans and casual Sports pundit) should get the nations media a bit more on side. AP was the only one available now I reckon, so AP it is. Now there may be a chance of the rebuilding starting now (to a degree) but at least it can begin and consolidated to present well on the World stage.
NUFCMVFC
Roar Guru
Yes expected or rather understood if it happens by the football fraternity (to a degree anyway) but the mainstream basically expects some kind of performance like against Brazil in 2006 at least I still remember the "Shockeroos" headline on the front of the HUN the day after the 4-0 loss to Germany in 2010, it's pretty much that game and the idea that Verbeek "bottled it" as far as formation goes that has been a cloud over his entire tenure ever since even though he did a good job results wise And we have just had two "Barca versus Man Utd" results as you put it and the football fraternity were obviously the most critical of everyone, though obviously this relates to a long list of underwhelming performances going back to final group stage wcq
fadida
Guest
Your point? Spain is Spain. If we draw them and are hammered it will be no worse for Ange than Barca hammering United. Expected because 1 team is superior
NUFCMVFC
Roar Guru
It's a bit of a catch-22, fringe players were certainly given a chance, but against the old guard for example it was Archie and Cahill who turned it around, and Archie coming on changed the vibe against Jordan As for youth. The thing with the ACQ campaigns was that those matches were perfect for peripheral players, we don't have them ATM, for the life of me I don't know why the EAFF a Cup wasn't mandated to be a youth tournament, though some of them got a run in the EAFF qualification campaign
NUFCMVFC
Roar Guru
Will say clearer, Ange will do OK, but if results aren't like 2006 he will be considered a "failure", just look at Pim, he is generally looked back at critically despite the fact he qualified us at a canter and got same group stage record as Guus, only difference is GD from Germany game Issue here is that it is fantastic PR, presumably by Gallop, in a way getting a good HAL coach is a very smart way of transferring the enthusiasm of the HAL currently to the Socceroos and transforming the vibe But it's not quite the same as transforming a HAL club, there is no equal salary cap in international football meaning a coaches skill comes to the fore and makes the difference, some countries have a competitive advantage in terms of the talent pool they a re working with so in a way a lesser coach can outdo a better coach if the players he is working with are a class above his opponent, and it's not like Ange can import a Broichs or Berisha or Contreras to help solve selection puzzles I get a sense people think he can transform Socceroos like Brisbane or Melbourne, he can certainly improve them but it's not like we are about to start dominating possession against the top seed nations and if we play an attacking expansive game there is a deep risk of getting ripped apart on the counter by world class players. Look, I'm not trying to be unduly negative, I think it's fantastic for Ange personally given the way new as treated for not being Dutch, but this was a very quick appointment, possibly too quick and the media are just "fawning" over him taking over but there hasn't been any proper debate of pros and cons and the ramifications and I don't understand why we couldn't take our time until March speaking to foreigners, it's just a big feel good populist exercise and talk of "pride" etc and not much proper discussion and even Arnold has come out saying the process was funny Anyway, looking forward to the Costa Rica game and how things are going to be shaken up
NUFCMVFC
Roar Guru
I believe in karma too However when Ange's contract was coming towards and end and MVFC were trying to lure him and hew as leaning that way for family and home reasons as he is Melbourne through and through since his south Melbourne days, the FFA running the Roar at the time intervened to ensure he was kept at the Roar so they could get more money for him, so there's an argument he's there for a season too long and now the FFA have interfered with his relationship with Melbourne again.... Left something in Brisbane, got The city engaged with the HAL like Melbourne did in 2006/2007 and Sydney in 2012/2013, though there's certainly a sense that there is a job unfinished here and he effectively said as much
NUFCMVFC
Roar Guru
As I've said above, can't begrudge Ange at all for taking the offer of coaching country of his birth at WC, so no ill feelings from me and frankly I knew deep down for about 1.5 weeks he was gone. Indeed I was worried about Holger getting sacked because of the speculation surrounding Ange No what makes me rather unhappy is that firstly I'm not convinced taking one of the better Australian coaches out of HAL is in the best interests of the game, taking his attractive style out of week to week context now we are on FTA is a blow IMO Secondly there is the fact the FFA think they can come in and just treat clubs with such disregard, I didn't like it when they poached GVE and I am not happy they are so stingy they won't pay compensation, that made me rather angry actually because theyv'e come in and undermined 1.5 years of work, come out with this blackmail line about "going against the nation" etc but at the end of the day half the issue lies with the fact our board are rather witless and not willing to stand their ground, this wouldn't have happened under Geoff Lord I did digress, but that's because it taps into underlying tensions between club owners and the FFA of which this is the latest episode, in this case if it becomes something of a trend than it means for difficulties down the line and a lack of trust
NUFCMVFC
Roar Guru
We'll have to see regarding how we replace AP, this has as much to do with our Chairman Anthony Di Petrio as it does with the FFA taking AP, so far Di Petrio hasn't exactly done a lot to fill us MVFC fans with confidence he has the wit to tell a good coach from a good talker,Meg went with Mehmet Durakovich and then Jim Magilton? Nothing wrong with having a season with KM as "interim" coach for an extended period, takes the pressure off and KM is a club man with great coaching potential, just think he needed to learn under AP for about five years As far as the Socceroos go, I think with the players he has to work with he will actually do quite well, he basically took the same squad of MvFC players that had struggled in 2011/2012 and took them to third in 2012/2013 and the turnaround in aromas speaks for itself Part of the problem is I don't quite think they seem to be measuring up the golden generation, but people will expect him to produce the same results, hence being "set up to fail" in terms of the unreasonable expectations placed on him as half the issue. When I say "people", there is the football fraternity which in this country isn't used to elongated qualifying campaigns so expect vintage football in every single game like in playoffs, that simply isn't always practical given mid-season week long FIFA windows, it's often about going to obscure places and getting the result Then there is the mainstream media who have no sense of perspective at all, so they wouldn't be able to gauge how well he is doing with what he is working with. This happened at the start of last season, MVFC results were poor, people ,engined how we were "crap" etc and a bunch of flops but I would reply there are some tantalising signs there so in a little bit of time it will click and sure enough it did and we went on a great run, but that's the thing with Ange, takes a while to get going but when his teams do it is fantastic, hence my league and cup line from last article Personally I think best case scenario would have been for him to take the 2022 WCQ campaign using some of the youth starting to get into Europe now plus the u20 WC generation from earlier this year, that generation has a fair bit of potential
NUFCMVFC
Roar Guru
For my part, rather than full independence as is often suggested, the EPL vs FA has it's issues, I personally would like to see a high degree of autonomy, as in its effectively independent FFA naturally has to be highly involved in the start-up phase, but are releasing the grip too slowly, there is stakeholder issues in football...
NUFCMVFC
Roar Guru
Yeah, but Barca is Barca Just hope we don't have. Pim versus Germany type thing, though Ange won't screw around his system
NUFCMVFC
Roar Guru
Yeah he will be and will be good value, I'm a little concerned about how his reputation in the mainstream would be affected, he is such a great ambassador for our game with his media skills and profile
NUFCMVFC
Roar Guru
Yeah for him personally it is a great story, given the way he was hounded out by the whole pro-Dutxpch trend in terms of the Aussie your job, but this happened in a way which made him unemployable for a while, obviously what he did being when he got his opportunity was a great deal of joy to people in the football produced, even though there is a sense of the job only about 1/4 done for MVFC, but of course I or no one else can begrudge someone wanting to take up the opportunity of coaching at a WC
fadida
Guest
I used "modern" in inverted commas to show that I appreciate that the wheel hasn't been reinvented, and to show that it is in vogue, compared to the out of vogue Osieck tactics.
fadida
Guest
Relax jb, I understood your point was about the media. I was simply offering reasons as to why people in general (which is what the media are of course) are "fawning" over AP. He's the best we have, and an improvement on his predecessor. Whether they could have found better? We'll have to ask Lowy and Gallop that. Agree re the Barca comparisons, but it's all relative. Every Asian has/had an Omani "Beckham", the Qatari "Zidane", the Indonesian "Messi". None thinks that they are of the same class but relative to the level they are at the comparison may be true. When BR were at their dominant best and unbeaten for however long it was they were showing Barca-esque dominance with a style loosely based on their play. Loosely. Yes, Ange and Arnold have only had success at club level, but that is where they have been coaching recently after all
The Bear
Guest
Some fair points in the blog tho... will there eventually be a power struggle between HAL and FFA when the HAL is independent? Where does a middle ground exist? I figure the Soceroos will always take precedence...and this last fortnight shows an enormous precedent!
j binnie
Guest
fadida - soothe your ruffled feathers my friend when I used the term "FAWNING MEDIA" I was not referring to fellow commenters like you & I but to supposed pundits who appear to find it much easier to isolate a coach & get his views than it is to analyse a game & then, when talking to players have what I would term meaningful conversation. Your other points are well put but remember Ange & Graham's successes have been accomplished at a club level, not at international level which I attempted to point out is totally different. "Modern" football is also a misnomer,there is no such a thing,for football since the 20;s has been in a state of constant change & can be traced from then through many changes up till the present day, There are people who promote we play "like Barca" (a ludicrous aim when one considers the players Barca have) & yet it could be said that Bayern have already changed that level of football as being the best". Ok? jb
The Bear
Guest
I believe in Karma. Melbourne Victory poached Ange from Brisbane Roar. The simple fact that their board may have facilitated AP's swift move into the NT role, should pay off that Karmic debt. AP has left a dynasty at each club...now it's up to the respective boards to nurture and extend upon it. I predict AP's Socceroos will be a blueprint now for all HAL clubs, reminding Roar and Victory especially what they should be doing.
fadida
Guest
Agree. Very well written articles but tending to focus on what may go wrong. Perhaps it is the dismissal of the Ange antithesis Holger Osieck that is fuelling my optimistic joy, but I prefer to look at potential positives a) improved style and performance at NT level b) regeneration of the team c) the boost to club careers that international exposure may give to the next gen eg Sainsbury, Pain, Leckie Duke or whoever impress at the WC, which gets them a bigger move to Holland, Spain, Germany etc, which in turn improves them again as players Ferguson was found out twice v Barca but his aura remained intact btw